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What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamond?

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sbdfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
12
Hello, I just found this site and already you have been a blessing. I am a totally confused newbie so my apologies for questions. I received a ring as a gift from my mother-in-law before she passed away in 2000. The center stone is a .75 carat green diamond, emerald cut which had been remounted from another older ring in the 1990's. It is a breathtaking stone, it goes from a green to a Carribbean Ocean blue-green glow depending on the light. With the emerald cut, it looks like a liquid swimming pool on my finger. The appraisal says "fancy light slightly bluish green, unknown origin". I have worn and enjoyed it so much, but I need to sell it now. I had no idea when I started this process what a roller coaster I jumped on. The more I have read this week the more I want to cry. You guys are now my official heros; I would love to ask for some guidance. I have had three jewelers tell me it was not a diamond because diamonds could never be that color, even though they never even touched it. I had four others, GIA grads, who all confirmed it is a diamond and all agreed that they saw nothing that would lead them to think it had been treated for the color,they all feel it is a natural. Everyone has recommended taking it to GIA for the certification, but from what I have read here through old posts, will they be able to tell if it is a natural? I called today to the NY office and they said I could bring it in any morning next week. Is it worth the flight (I live in the south.) Do most get the unknown origin if I don't know the history? The buyers I have contacted all say they are not interested without a GIA cert. I understand it will need to be removed from the mounting. It has an internal fracture (feather?) that does not reach the surface so I worry that it will get damaged during the removal, testing, etc...This is all completely foreign to me, but I need to sell it and have no idea how to find the right people or the right way to proceed. Thanks so much for any help or guidance.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Though I'm not going to be able to answer your question, posting this in the colored gem section may get you more attention. Also, kenny bought a green diamond awhile ago and may be able to give some guidance.

best
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Thanks!
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

yes I would definitely send it to GIA. as the previous poster mentioned, kenny has a fantastic FCD (fancy colored diamond) collection and should be able to advise you.

in the meantime, do you have pics?
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

greenring ph 2.png

greenring photo.png

greenring photo 3.png
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Totally cool stone but not so cool with the current setting.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Not my choice, in fact it is UGLY; the yellow totally kills the diamond. I wanted to get it remounted but never got around to it. This is probably why I never realized how cool this stone was or how rare they are.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Unmount and send to GIA. Then post on Pre-loved and DB for sale.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

I agree with my friends here.
Have a jeweler remove it from the setting (in your presence - don't let it out of your sight) and get it to GIA for a full Colored Diamond Grading Report.
You don't need to pay a jeweler to send it to GIA for you.
GIA will deal directly with the public.

You can ship it or personally hand it over to either of GIA's labs, New York City or Carlsbad California.

The problem is to ship it you have to insure it.
To insure it you need proof of value if there were a claim.
It may be worth $50 or hundreds of thousands, because in the world of colored diamonds 0.75 ct is HUGE and Green and blue are among the most rare and valuable hues.

ONLY GIA is the authority on a green diamond's color being natural or not.
So you have a chicken and egg problem.
That is why I'd buy a plane ticket or two and personally deliver it to GIA and make a vacation out of it.

"Natural" refers to TWO separate things.
1. Material, the diamond may have been mined from the ground or manufactured in a lab.
2. Color origin, the color may be exactly as it came from the ground or it could have been treated to change the color.

Blue diamonds get their color from boron "contamination".
Yellow is the result of nitrogen.
Pink/brown from deformation of the lattice crystal structure.
Green is the result of exposure to radiation.
This exposure may have happened in the ground over zillions of years or in a laboratory.
Hopefully for your bank account the radiation not only occurred naturally but that fact can be proven enough for GIA to grade the color origin natural.
GIA is the world's top authority on this question.
There is so much money at stake I would not trust any jeweler, appraiser, or other grading lab's word on this.

If its color and material are both natural in origin you have A VERY valuable diamond.
Unfortunately green is the most difficult color for GIA to verify color origin.
I do know that they closely analyze the brown stains left in the naturals.
Naturals are little areas of the skin of the rough diamond, that cutters would usually polish away.
Today with natural green diamonds they intentional leave some naturals.
A generation or two ago? I don't know if they had a reason to leave naturals.

Often when cutting/polishing a green diamond know to be fully natural, it will be submitted a few times to GIA during the cutting process so when the stone is finished and most of the skin (perhaps all) is gone GIA can still grade the stone as fully natural so the seller can charge $500,000 for it instead of $500.

Problem is if it was cut generations ago all of the skin may be polished off and you may get GIA's dreaded UNDETERMINED color origin grade.
That would be heartbreaking to own what really may be a fully natural green diamond that cannot be proven to be natural because the cutters long ago didn't know to leave the naturals, because decades later science would discover that's where the proof is hiding.

You also said it changes color.
Usually greens that change color to yellowish orangish are called Chameleons.
They react to heat or light by changing color, but I've never heard of one becomming more blue, so frankly that does not bode well for the potential natural green diamond lottery here.
But colored diamonds are full of surprises and I certainly don't know everything.

Do me a favor, put it in the dark for a few days.
Immediately upon taking it out put it under a bright light and take a pic
A few hours take another pic under the same light.
Post both pics here.
This is partly for my amusement, GIA is the authority.
But if the color changes to a certain hue perhaps someone here on Rocky Talk or an expert over on our Colored Stones forum can identify it as another type of gem.
There are other color changing gems.

Here is a pic of the brown radiation stains in some naturals on the girdle of my quarter carat green diamond that GIA graded fully natural.



FWIW, here are my kids: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]

green radiation stains.png
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Only on diamonds could "brown radiation stains" be something valuable. :errrr:
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

sbdfan|1335565451|3182469 said:
I have had three jewelers tell me it was not a diamond because diamonds could never be that color, even though they never even touched it.
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean much.
The more expensive hues of Fancy Colored Diamonds so rare and valuable that many jewelers have never even seen examples.
Please show this link below to these three jewelers.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/diamond_education/world_of_colors

This chart shows just some of the wide range of hues the earth has given us in fancy colored diamonds.

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful :lol: , but I shamelessly confess that I own three of the diamonds on this chart. :sun:
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly bluish green diam

Thank you so much for the info! Your babies are the reason I posted here, I like people who know what they are talking about. When I mentioned it changing colors what I meant was with the way it looks in different lighting sources and situations. When the light hits from the ends the green is deeper. An almost direct light source brings out the blue tint, almost liquid. It has the most remarkable colors, great entertainment when stuck at the computer. I spoke with GIA in NY today, the lady said if I could bring it in before 10am they could do the rush and have it ready in two days. Can they complete the exam in two days on a green diamond? I have a daughter in midtown Manhattan so I am there a lot until this year. My husband had a stroke during hip replacement surgery in Santa Monica, so the medical bills and extra month on the west coast led to this. One of the jewelers said it has an inclusion, or an internal natural fracture that does not reach the surface. This worries me. I do not know what is involved in the GIA exam, but I worry about having it removed by a local jeweler. Can either of these harm it? I am curious, could I see the naturals in my medical microscope? I think I might have to plug it up and look. Where would the naturals be located on an emerald cut? Another stupid question, I have noticed there aren't any (or very few) emerald cut greens, is there a reason? Would this indicate origin or age? Can GIA determine origin by any other means if the naturals have been removed? Thanks so much.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly bluish green diam

sbdfan|1335583935|3182687 said:
Thank you so much for the info! Your babies are the reason I posted here, I like people who know what they are talking about. When I mentioned it changing colors what I meant was with the way it looks in different lighting sources and situations. When the light hits from the ends the green is deeper. An almost direct light source brings out the blue tint, almost liquid. It has the most remarkable colors, great entertainment when stuck at the computer. I spoke with GIA in NY today, the lady said if I could bring it in before 10am they could do the rush and have it ready in two days. Can they complete the exam in two days on a green diamond? I have a daughter in midtown Manhattan so I am there a lot until this year. My husband had a stroke during hip replacement surgery in Santa Monica, so the medical bills and extra month on the west coast led to this. One of the jewelers said it has an inclusion, or an internal natural fracture that does not reach the surface. This worries me. I do not know what is involved in the GIA exam, but I worry about having it removed by a local jeweler. Can either of these harm it? I am curious, could I see the naturals in my medical microscope? I think I might have to plug it up and look. Where would the naturals be located on an emerald cut? Another stupid question, I have noticed there aren't any (or very few) emerald cut greens, is there a reason? Would this indicate origin or age? Can GIA determine origin by any other means if the naturals have been removed? Thanks so much.
Click to expand...

Great questions.
First best wishes on your husband's medical condition.
I had cancer last year and empathize deeply.
I hope you have a fully natural green diamond per GIA.

There are very few emerald cut FCDs because it is NOT one of the cuts the strengthen the color.
Other cuts, especially radiant, cause the light to bounce back and forth more times through the colored body material before exiting out the top.
The more colored material the light travels through the more color it pics up.
You may think that's kind of cheating, but that is simply the business reality of the FCD world.
The top is the ONLY place GIA looks when grading color or clarity of colored diamonds.

Your diamond being emerald cut increases its value compared to an otherwise identical radiant green.

Yes my diamonds all change how they look in different lighting an environments.
My green looks DRAMATICALLY different in various situations.
Diamonds are little boxes of mirrors and windows and when you look at a diamond you are also looking at the room, the curtains and the color of your dress.

Don't worry too much about the inclusions.
Clarity has much less of a relative effect on value of FCDs than it does with white diamonds since white diamonds there are so many white diamonds for sale.
Many hideously included FCDs sell for zillions of bucks.
FCDs are just so rare.

One factor that may influence the color you see is fluorescence, I think a third of all diamonds have it.
When in the presence of ultraviolet light (sunlight has lots of it) a diamond can glow certain colors.
Often the color of fluorescence is blue but other colors are possible.
With FCDs strong fluorescence may increase or decrease the beauty and therefor the value.

You asked if GIA can do the report in two days.
They offer two reports on colored diamonds.
A very complete one and an abbreviated one.
Read about them here: http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/diamonds/diamond-reports/index.html

I recommend the full one.
Perhaps the woman you talked to was referring to the abbreviated one.

Good luck and keep us posted.
I'll keep my fingers crossed it's fully natural.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

IMHO you are most likely to find naturals on the girdle, though they may occur anywhere.
Diamonds are cut to retain as much weight as possible, and with FCDs to maximize the color.
Since rough comes in many shapes, that may result in any part of the polished diamond being near the original skin.
However when looking at many GIA report plots I notice naturals left on greens are almost always on the girdles.

I do not know whether GIA can determine if the green color is of natural origin if there are no naturals.

Another man who is a world-renound expert on FCDs is Stephen C Hofer.
I believe he is located up in New England.
Mr. Hofer wrote this huge reference book on FCDs, which a few days ago was listed for $1850, but now is listed for $2484.01.
I bought my copy a few years ago for 2 or 3 hundred bucks, and :angryfire: I was outraged by the price back then.


http://www.amazon.com/Collecting-Classifying-Coloured-Diamonds-Illustrated/dp/0965941019

Here is his website. http://www.stephenhofer.com/shblog/

I have spoken to him on he phone and he was very kind and helpful.
He may have advice for you regarding the absence of naturals on green diamonds, or advice on how to get the best price if you must sell it.

Screen shot 2012-04-27 at 9.13.19 PM.png
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Kenny, you are amazing. I really do appreciate the advice. I am lost in this world but I believe this may be the beginning of a beautiful addiction. Funny thing, my husband is an addictionologist, I don't think he has a cure for this kind, ha, ha! (Seriously, we were blessed, he is back to work part time, still a long road). The World of Colors link took my breath away. I will keep you posted, have a great night, (or morning now!)
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Thanks.
Truly my pleasure.

Keep in mind even a GIA report does not assign a value.
AFTER you get the GIA report you can begin the very complicated task of zeroing in on a price range and a venue to sell it.

That won't be quick, simple or easy.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Did anyone test it with a diamond tester? If not, I would have it tested with one just for confirmation before I sent it out for certification. I hope it is,though, because it's a pretty stone!
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Yes, it has been tested three times, it is a diamond. I have an appointment this afternoon to have it removed from the ring so I can get it to GIA. Thanks.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Just got back from having it removed from the mounting. That jeweler actually knew what he was talking about. He is a GIA grad and has worked with a lot of colored diamonds. Bad news, it's only .64 ct but he says he is 100% positive it is natural, he spent a lot of time on the microscope and said it has all indications, not to worry. (And do NOT mail it to GIA.) The color is actually deeper than it appeared in the old mounting. I am still cautiously optimistic but it feels really weird not wearing it. I did not realize how much entertainment it has been until I drove home, I missed watching it dance in the sunlight. Thanks.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Am I reading that correct that he advised you not to send the stone to GIA for testing? Did he say why?

If you wish to sell the diamond, I highly recommend sending it to GIA for certification. Not only will it state natural treatments but you would be able to get a color grade. That would be highly valuable for selling.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

I'm very excited for you.

Now that it is loose and away from that yellow gold you can judge the color better.
Here's an idea, carefully place it in a white pillowcase outside in the mid day sun (not in the shade) and peek through a small opening.
Would you say it is mostly green with a little blue?
Mostly green with a little gray or brown or yellow?

If GIA determines in has only green and blue there are 4 possible hue grades it may get.
Here I'll list them from the least blue to the most blue.

Bluish Green
Blue Green
Green Blue
Greenish Blue

The strongest hue is always mentioned last.

It may possibly have 3 hues such as Grayish Bluish Green.
A Grayish Bluish Green would be priced higher than a Bluish Grayish Green since the former has more blue than the later.
The exact hues and their order has a large impact on the value.
If they determine there is any brown in it the value will be less.
Let's hope for only Blue and Green.

In addition to the hue GIA grades the tone.
I like to think of tone as how light or dark it would look in a Black and white photo.
Tone and color saturation are easy to confuse; it's possible for a diamond with a very dark tone to not have that much color saturation, or one with great color saturation to have a lighter tone.
You have to practice separating the color saturation and tone in your brain to wrap your head around GIA color diamond grading.

GIA's Colored Diamond Scale puts it all into 3D space.
Notice the tone is on the vertical axis and the hue is on the horizontal axis.
It is actually a slice of a doughnut in which the hue would vary as you went around the doughnut.

The most expensive grade is usually Vivid, followed by Intense or perhaps Deep depending on the diamond.

GIA Color Scale.png
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

heraanderson|1335642879|3183059 said:
Am I reading that correct that he advised you not to send the stone to GIA for testing? Did he say why?

If you wish to sell the diamond, I highly recommend sending it to GIA for certification. Not only will it state natural treatments but you would be able to get a color grade. That would be highly valuable for selling.
Click to expand...


I think he meant hand deliver it to GIA, don't mail it because it may to be too valuable.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

kenny|1335643626|3183067 said:
heraanderson|1335642879|3183059 said:
Am I reading that correct that he advised you not to send the stone to GIA for testing? Did he say why?

If you wish to sell the diamond, I highly recommend sending it to GIA for certification. Not only will it state natural treatments but you would be able to get a color grade. That would be highly valuable for selling.
Click to expand...


I think he meant hand deliver it to GIA, don't mail it because it may to be too valuable.
Click to expand...

Oh, good! Phew! I can't WAIT to see the results. I wonder what green or blue-green grade it will get!
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

I wonder too . . .
Here are 34 green diamonds to click through.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/green_diamonds

Which of those 34 greens does yours look closest to when you view yours in a white pillowcase in the mid day sun?
Don't be in the shade because the huge blue sky is actually itself a light source and will influence what you see in the blue direction.

The prices of the greens in that link demonstrate how certain modifying colors (and the tone and color saturation) raise or lower the value of a green diamond.

Oh, and 0.64 ct is still a honking size for a natural green diamond.
The one below is less than a quarter carat but almost $50K!!!
Of course it is Pure Vivid Green - which I suspect is the most expensive Green grade.
Perhaps blue-greens are higher in price than pure greens.
It's so hard to analyze FCD values since they are so rare - so little data. :(sad

ipipipi.png
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Hey Kenny! I took a double take when I saw the price of that book!!!! Why does it cost so much??????
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Okay, just did the pillowcase test. I would say Bluish Green, no yellow, brown or grey. The jeweler last week said fancy light slightly bluish green, the one today said fancy bluish green, it is more intense out of the yellow gold. He did mean to hand deliver, not mail. I am trying to get out to be there **edited by moderator to protect privacy** at GIA. I will try to get some pics tonight. Thanks.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

For security purposes I'd keep the dates, times and location confidential, if it's not too late to edit your post.
(You get 45 minutes.)
If you see this after 45 minutes and want to edit you may contact admin.

This IS the Internet.

Good luck.
 
Re: What to do with a fancy light slightly buish green diamo

Just saw this, I was talking and typing, I meant at work Monday I would try to work out some time off to go to GIA. Thanks.
 
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