What to do about our cat''s behavioral problems??

[Emeraldfan]

Ok - so I was reading Robbie''s thread on possibly declawing her cat and this brought up an issue with my own cat.

We have a two year old siamese cat that has had behaviioral problems since we got her. She will never allow you to pick her up, hold her or restrict her movement in any way and will claw the living heck out of you if you try. We thought at first when we got her it was because she was in a new environment and didn''t trust us - but she''s only gotten worse. She loves it when you pet her and scratch her really hard but can never sit still to let you and if she does come sit near/on us it has to be her way. She also has no concept of others besides herself. Our other cat knows you don''t step on peoples faces or throats when they are sleeping or dig claws into skin as a jump off point. She has honestly scratched us so many times that we keep neosporin in every room in the house to put on immediately after being scratched.

Our vet said to possibly try anti-depressants which we are considering. Problem is we would have to get them into her mouth everyday and get scratched in the process. They also possibly won''t work to change her behavior. My fiance and I are thinking about having children in one to two years and I''m not sure I would trust the cat around our child or anyone elses. At some point, our child would try to grab at the kitty and get mauled in the process (because she will come within reach to be pet but will go berserk the minute she feels a restriction of her movements). Obviously, I don''t want that to happen. I feel like our only options are to try the anti-depressants, declaw the cat so she can''t hurt anyone (which I know is cruel), or get rid of the cat when we have children. My fiance feels like its our cat and our responsibility and he doesn''t want to get rid of her. We both really don''t want to declaw her either but I don''t see much of another option.

I feel so bad about doing any of them, if anyone has any suggestions on how to change our cat''s behavior that would be appreciated.

P.S. - We have tried SoftPaws but she bites and rips and scratches them off within a day or two of putting them on.

 

[AmberGretchen]

hi emeraldfan - I completely sympathize with your situation, it sounds like a very tough one, and I understand your frustration. I will try to write a more detailed response later, and I''m sure that other kitty people on here will chime in with their insights as well, but three things occur to me right away:

1. Check out this website: Link It sounds like your kitty has a variety of behavioral issues, and a multi-pronged approach may be necessary to try to address them. This website has really good information on a range of cat behavioral issues - overstimulation and petting aggression may be particularly appropriate for you. I would encourage you to read them over, and contact these people or a similar organization in your area with your concerns - there are people that are experts in cat behavior and can help you develop a detailed plan to deal with your kitty''s specific issues.

2. antidepressants for cats should come in a gel form that can be rubbed on the ear. This sounds like it would be a much better option than the pill form for you guys. I believe the name is amytriptiline, or something similar. But google cat ear gel or cat antidepressants or similar and it should come up. Ask your vet about this option.

3. I think that in this case, declawing has the potential to make the situation much, much worse. One common side effect of declawing is to make cats more aggressive and/or frightened, and to increase biting behavior. I think you can see that this would make the problems worse, or at least equally bad but just different, rather than better.

 

[Emeraldfan]

Oh - and I forgot to mention. SHE BITES!! Really hard. When she had a cold and we had to hold her to give her pills she bit so hard it broke the skin. Definitely not normal for a cat to bite.


Thanks Amber - I will check out that website. I've had cats my whole life and I have never had one act this way. We never spank her or hurt her in any way and I just can't understand what has caused this behavior. We got her as a 14 week old kitten and she's been like this since day one. Our other cat is from the same place and he doesn't have any of these issues so I don't think the people that we got her from were cruel to her.

I do agree declawing might make her behavior worse but I also really don't want to get any more scars from being scratched. Sometimes she'll lay on us at night and when we go to get up she'll scratch our stomach and chest in her effort to get off us as she's afraid we'll grab her. She has left numerous scars from scratching me all on my stomach/chest (can't really wear a bikini anymore as you'll see big white scratches down my front). We've tried to lock her out of our room but she'll sit at the door and cry all night until we open it. It's like she needs to be around people but can't stand to be held.

 

[Steel]

Hi Emeraldfan,

I am sorry your kitty is being a pain

.

I love cats, I have had 3 over the last 3 years and am not a pet expert by any stretch of my imagination but I have some tried and tested techniques DH and I use.

Let me start by saying they work even if I or DH use them, the cats seem to relate to me better but still they respond to DH when he uses them equally as if I had.

"Squirty Gun"

I bought a little cheap plastic house plant water sprayer, the one you can change the spray on from light mist to more intense spray. Any behaviour which is not desirable gets a firm ''NO'' and if they continue they get a ''NO'' and a warning squirt (do not aim for kitty) finally if they continue they get a ''NO'' and direct squirt. After a while the cat learns what behaviour is not desirable (ie what they get squirted for). Put a squirty in each problem room within EASY reach (this is important) and do not let kitty get away with anything even once it ruins the training.

"Swaddle"

Cats need adjustment time. Interact with the cat but if this is unsuccessful and you really have given the cat a fair try I recommend a swaddle. When the cat is calm approach it with a thick towel or blanket and swaddle the cat in the material tight enough so that it cannot get away or use its legs to but not so that you feel it would be uncomfortable (for the cat). Sit somewhere quiet and gently rock kitty while saying its name and talking about nice soothing kitty things. Build up to a couple of mins at a go but start at about 10-60 seconds depending on how much kitty hates it. EVENTUALLY the cat will purr in its swaddle and get used to your voice and comfort. NOTE: When releasing kitty from the swaddle I would lay the kitty swaddled on the floor or sofa and allow it to get free itself. It reinforces that the swaddle is safe and that they can get out and also avoids claws!

Cats can be a big old pain in the BUTT, but you gotta LOVE ''em!

MEAOW!

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I second the swaddle suggestion. My cat was "adopted" from the shelter three times within it''s first 5 months. The first two times he was returned and the last time was with me. He was never properly socialized because of the above situation (and I think he was taken from the litter too young). I still use the swaddle method but it''s gotten to the point where I can just hold him like a baby, but not in the blanket. I''ve also found that he''s hungry for head petting, but responds better to scratching his shoulder blades while you rest your wrist on his head. He doesn''t squirm as much that way. He still nips if he gets overstimulated, but we scruff him and give him a firm no and he backs off. It''s a continuous battle though and not an easy task. Good luck.

 

[Gypsy]

Our Noel had problems that were like this, she never bit though. I still have scars from the scratching. She hated being picked up forget smooshing and would panic. But she always gave a mournful meow before the blood started to spill. So we learned that the particular meow means down, and we would immediately release her. In time (a year) she would tolerate much more cuddling-- and just meows when she''s fed up, knowing that we would release her immediately. Clipping her nails and giving her medicaitons was always a trial though. The medications we gave her were NEVER in pill form, too difficult, liquids, gels, chewable custom formulated treats, but NOT pills. As for claw clipping, two person job, pointy side DOWN, hold her by the scruff of her neck, which wearing thick yello dish gloves-- after a while we just took her to the groomer for her claws, it was easier, and she liked car rides, and wasn''t afraid of strange people. She''s also a HEAVY cat, and steps on all body parts... and even jumps up to land on your stomach from the floor, if your lying down. That stuff we just worked around though, the panicked scratching was the bigger problem.

I like the swaddling suggestion. As for the squirt gun... I have one for Hally who believes counter tops are her exclusive domain... fat lot of good the squirting does me. She''s a PITA my Hally, but I love her. I buy counter disinfectant by the gallon though.

 

[FireGoddess]

Siamese can be somewhat neurotic...but they are love buckets and totally worth the time and effort.

Though not siamese, my rescue kitty Holly was very bitey at the beginning but she has improved tremendously. Used to break the skin EVERY time. She's gotten MUCH better now and only nips when she's totally hyped up and accidentally views your hand as an object of prey. Or if you try to pet her belly too too too much (but I am totally guilty of that and she lets me pet a fair bit before I ignore her cues that it's ENOUGH).

But they are only light bites, no breaking of skin!!

What worked for me was clicker training. There's a whole website about it and I know it sounds daunting but it's quite easy. http://clickertraining.com/cattraining Basically, I got a clicker and some irresistable chicken as treats, and started by clicking and giving the cat a treat, so she associates the click with good things. Then I started clicking when she did something good, and giving the treat for that. Within a few days she got it and I started giving her a belly pet and clicking her for not reacting to it. I was trying to get her to let me pet her belly (which she does now!!!) but you can click for something like the cat letting you put your hand on it (hold it for a second) and not reacting. They are quick to catch on and lemme tell you, it works!!!

 

[Emeraldfan]

Thanks everyone. We did try the swaddling when we first got her and it didn't really work but maybe its because she was still new to us and not used to her environment. We'll try it again though as any alternative is worth a try.

We really don't have a need for the squirt gun. She doesn't claw furniture or jump up on things she's not supposed to. It's just her interaction with humans and other cats. She also used to bite and attack our older cat when we first got her. He would just sit there and take it until finally he would put his mouth around her neck and wrestle her down with his back paws.

The gel anti-depressants would be great. Do anti-depressants really work on cats though? I am a little leary but willing to give that a try. I want to nip this in the bud now so when we do have children its not an issue. I have only seen her behavior get worse and my child and my nieces and nephews safety comes first. Barring all else failing, we may have to find her another home.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Hey emeraldfan - I''m glad you''ve gotten some good advice here and are willing to give it a try.

I personally have never tried the antidepressants, but I know people who have, and say they work WONDERS. I mean, like night and day for cats with serious anxiety issues. So I would say they are definitely worth a try to see if there is one out there that could help your kitty.

 

[sumbride]

My Lucy was a mess when I brought her home. Completely anti-social and anxiety-ridden. She wouldn't let me hold her and she didn't allow me to pick her up.

First thing... is your kitty physically healthy? Lucy had a lot of ear infections which contributed to her general crankiness. When her ears aren't bothering her, she's much easier to deal with.

And yes, antidepressants DO work in cats! We didn't have much luck with the topical one you put on the ear, but we put Lucy on Prozac almost 2 years ago and it has been night and day, almost. We use Pill Pockets to give her the pill and it has to be given to her in a certain routine or she won't eat it, but it's really made quite a difference. Pill Pockets don't work with every cat, FG's cats didn't like them, but it's worth a try.

and if she already bites, don't declaw her.... it will probably get worse! My mom's cats attack my ankles every time I'm home. I don't care if the sofa looks good if I'm bleeding from my wounds.

 

[monarch64]

Sorry to hear you''re having kitty issues. You''ve received great advice so far, though, hopefully some of these tactics help and you won''t have to resort to anti-depressants unless they''re absolutely necessary. I have one more little piece of advice: have you tried the kitty claw caps? They''re these little soft plastic thingies you put on their claws so they can''t scratch you. You might have to have your vet put them on your kitty unless you can manage it yourself by swaddling her first and doing one paw at a time. Some cats tolerate them, some don''t, but they''re worth a try rather than declawing if she keeps on scratching you guys. HTH!

 

[Emeraldfan]

Sumbride - Thanks for the advice. Our cat is physically healthy, I almost wish it was something more easy to fix like your cat''s ear ache. Unfortunately she''s been like this ever since we got her. The final straw for me in trying to find a remedy or take other measures was when she clawed my whole arm the other day. I thought maybe she was just a young kitten who would mellow out but I don''t see that happening. Hopefully the anti-depressants will work wonders as I do love her and don''t want to have to place her in another home.

Monarch - Thanks as well. We did try the Soft Paws which are claw caps. It takes two of us to get them glued on her nails (with a lot of scratching and biting) and then she just bites and rips them off over the next day or two. We do try and clip her nails and make them a little shorter - problem is although they don''t dig as deep from being dull they still leave big gouges or scratch marks wherever she strikes.

We''re going to take her to the vet this week so I''ll let you guys know how the anti-depressants work. I really do think its kind of funny that our cat needs anti-depressants. The first time our vet suggested it when we moved out to CA I thought it was this whole new age crazy CA thing.

 

[Deelight]

i''m sorry to hear your cat is being a handful

Anti-depressant meds for animals is not that unusual our dog used to have to have anti-anxiety meds when we had storms his panic attacks were sad

poor bugger, I have also considered taking my younger cat to the vets for meds but he is not quite as bad as what your describing (he just has weird mood swings occasionally perfectly lovable otherwise). Obviously you adore your cat and just want it all to be happy and it makes me happy to see people persevere with problems (and sort them out) their animals have

Your cat may never allow you to comfortably pick it up as not all cats like being held Moo Moo our eldest goes stiff as a board (claws out) and HATES IT if you pick him up but he LOVES pats the rougher the better as he has gotten older he has also mellowed out and will now sit on your lap (only took 7.5 years but we got there

mind you I got him cause I wanted a lap cat

) Moo Moo is also a Himalayan Persian (they were interbred with Siamese to create colour points so it could be a characteristic of some cats of that breed?). We have never given him a reason not be liked being picked up it is just the way he is. Some cats despite how wonderful their owners are will have undesirable personality traits just because

.

Now to my point:

I read this post earlier today and gave it some real thought before replying, (this is going to sound way out there but bear with me please

) you said your kitty has been like this since you got her? Only reason I ask is maybe (this is a looooooooong shot) the food you feed your kitty could be making your cat narky? Is there something in the food your cat maybe intolerant or sensitive to? I have had friends that animals were sensitive to preservatives and have heard of cases of cats and dogs having intolerances to certain things foods (there is special dietary lines you can buy at your vets) but I am not sure if it would affect your cats personality. I know it does affect adults and children (especially preservatives) as it can cause hormonal imbalances and affect moods. Like I said it could be a long shot but it is something I would consider.

Sorry if that sounded nutty.

GL with the kitty

 

[VegasAngel]

I am a big fan of declawing (After trying other methods) when cats are young & destructive. At 2, I dont think declawing your cat is a good idea. She is old enough to remember the procedure & it will be much harder on her than a young kitten. I would only consider it after you exhaust your other options. Water gun, swaddling meds, etc.

 

[tberube]

Date: 10/29/2007 1:51:54 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Siamese can be somewhat neurotic...but they are love buckets and totally worth the time and effort.


Though not siamese, my rescue kitty Holly was very bitey at the beginning but she has improved tremendously. Used to break the skin EVERY time. She''s gotten MUCH better now and only nips when she''s totally hyped up and accidentally views your hand as an object of prey. Or if you try to pet her belly too too too much (but I am totally guilty of that and she lets me pet a fair bit before I ignore her cues that it''s ENOUGH).

But they are only light bites, no breaking of skin!!


What worked for me was clicker training. There''s a whole website about it and I know it sounds daunting but it''s quite easy. http://clickertraining.com/cattraining Basically, I got a clicker and some irresistable chicken as treats, and started by clicking and giving the cat a treat, so she associates the click with good things. Then I started clicking when she did something good, and giving the treat for that. Within a few days she got it and I started giving her a belly pet and clicking her for not reacting to it. I was trying to get her to let me pet her belly (which she does now!!!) but you can click for something like the cat letting you put your hand on it (hold it for a second) and not reacting. They are quick to catch on and lemme tell you, it works!!!

I was hoping that somebody wasn''t going to blame the siamese breed for the behavior. I have a siamese and he is completely the opposite. He''s a total lovebug who NEEDS to be held. We have designated "snuggle time" in the mornings and after I get home from work. He is also exceedingly tolerant when being held, even if he doesn''t want to be held - he sits and takes it, the most he''ll do is whine at you. He''s never been angry or vengeful and if he bites us it''s part of his play...always. In fact, three of the best cats I have ever known have all been siamese breeds.

Your cat''s issues are personality-based or experienced-based, and that''s all...IMHO. Cats are cause-and-effect animals. I agree with all of the other advice though, I''d never heard of swaddling before and it sounds like something to try.

 

[Emeraldfan]

tberube - I agree that its not the siamese breed that is the problem. I had a siamese cat when I was growing up and she was amazing. She would come when called (and always pick me over my dad if both of us were calling her name

), she slept on the pillow next to me every night and was great with other people. I loved her so much that the cats we have now are both siamese. The older one is great, he likes to be held a lot. Frankly, he was even a little needy if we left him for more than 3-4 hours so we got the younger one as a companion. It''s amazing how much personality both of them have, which I do think is part of the breed and why I love them. I just wish she had a little LESS personality if you know what I mean.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 10/30/2007 1:26:58 PM
Author: tberube

Date: 10/29/2007 1:51:54 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Siamese can be somewhat neurotic...but they are love buckets and totally worth the time and effort.

I was hoping that somebody wasn't going to blame the siamese breed for the behavior. I have a siamese and he is completely the opposite. He's a total lovebug who NEEDS to be held.

Seriously, lighten up. And reread the ONE statement about Siamese that I wrote. I'm not knocking Siamese - I love them. But they ARE somewhat neurotic. Notice I ALSO said they are love buckets, BECAUSE they can also have the trait of being very clingy to their owners. I have done LOTS of reading on cat behavior, and I've read what I wrote several times...AND been told this by behaviorists. So I'm not blaming everything on the fact that this cat is Siamese. It sounds like you were waiting for someone to try and blame the breed, and while I described SOME CHARACTERISTICS, I certainly did NOT outright blame this behavior solely on the fact that this cat is Siamese.