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What Table % is Better on a Princess Cut??

ags0

Rough_Rock
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May 14, 2011
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33
On the PS Princess Cut Chart, it says that an ideal Princess Cut diamond has a table % of 62 to 68%. I have just been told that light actually reflects better on a smaller table, like one that a table percentage in the high 50s. What do you guys think? I am pretty new to this, so I am trying to get some expert advice. :D
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I usually set an upper limit of 73% when I'm looking for stones for PSers, up to 75% if I need more options. No lower limit.
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
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Messages
33
JulieN|1305847363|2926077 said:
I usually set an upper limit of 73% when I'm looking for stones for PSers, up to 75% if I need more options. No lower limit.
Shouldn't the light reflect at a totally different angle when it's at 58% vs. 73% though? That's like a 15 degree difference, which sounds like a lot to me.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
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9,667
I would worry more about overall proportions than just table size. that being said, I prefer the smaller tables.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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ags0|1305847521|2926078 said:
JulieN|1305847363|2926077 said:
I usually set an upper limit of 73% when I'm looking for stones for PSers, up to 75% if I need more options. No lower limit.
Shouldn't the light reflect at a totally different angle when it's at 58% vs. 73% though? That's like a 15 degree difference, which sounds like a lot to me.
table percentage is not angle, table percentage is the size of the table divided by size of diamond.

the crown angle is always about the same, around 35 ish degrees. when you have more table (more flat surface) you get less refraction compared to when you have less table.
 

yssie

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ags0|1305847521|2926078 said:
Shouldn't the light reflect at a totally different angle when it's at 58% vs. 73% though? That's like a 15 degree difference, which sounds like a lot to me.

As Juli said - table is measured as a percentage of diametre - it's not an angular difference, the table itself is the same plane regardless - that big flat surface. What changes significantly is the crown - in two stones w/ the same proportions save table, the stone w/ the smaller table must have crown facets that fill that larger area between table and girdle given the same crown height - so the crown facets will be larger/spreadier with more spacing between facets. The crown angle will also be different - lower, for the same crown height and a smaller table.

Bigger facets permit higher energy (so bigger and brighter) exit refractions, and more spacing between facets allows that output light to travel without interference (individual neighbouring dispersions recombining into white, say). We *see* the colour because we're at the right angle relative to an output dispersion to catch just one specific wavelength - red, blue, yellow, whatever - the crown is already at an angle to your eyes if you're admiring your stone face-up, many dispersions outputted through the crown will be bent even further away from your direct line of sight - making it even easier to catch that one wavelength.


ETA: okay, I don't really trust AGS' grading of princesses enough to buy without more info/pics or an *excellent* return policy - I feel like we've seen pretty large variance wrt to what they call 0 light performance in princesses. If you're not planning to have the stone shipped out to inspect in-person before having it set (which I HIGHLY recommend regardless of which one you choose) I'd go with the one w/ the printed ASET map - even given the scanning uncertainty something is better than nothing!
 

yssie

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from the info we've got - both look nice to me!

price difference, does one vendor have more appealing policies, the setting you want..?
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
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Yssie|1305849101|2926105 said:
from the info we've got - both look nice to me!

price difference, does one vendor have more appealing policies, the setting you want..?
Hmm... all along, I was thinking of just getting the diamond first, and then get the setting locally. One of my best friend told me that's the best way to go, so you can get life time resizing and what not. But please, let me know if you feel otherwise!

The one with the smaller table cost a little less, but everything else is pretty much equal.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Unless you have a specific design from your local jeweller in mind I'd do everything possible to get stone and setting from the same vendor. That way you avoid having to deal with insuring the loose stone for shipping and setting, liability issues should something happen (you'll already be stressed, you don't want to have to deal with vendors pointing fingers at each other on top of that), setting costs most jewellers charge to set outside stones...

Having a relationship with a local jeweller is definitely a very useful thing - but I would suggest building that relationship by either buying the entire Ering (stone and setting) there, or by getting your wedding bands and other pieces there, taking pieces in for checkups/repair work/plating & polishing, etc.
 

jstarfireb

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Princess cuts are so hard to judge based on numbers - that's why ASETs and an AGS 0 for light performance matter so much (although as Yssie pointed out there is quite a bit of variation in AGS0 standards). I think the jury is still out on table size, and it comes down to a matter of personal preference in terms of facet patterning. Both ASETs look good - I do prefer the look of the simulated ASET on the 68% compared to the real on on the 59%, but it's also an apples to oranges comparison since you don't have the same types of ASETs for both. It could just be the method of photography, but I see a good deal more green in the 59%.

As Yssie mentioned, it's much less risky to get the stone and setting from the same vendor and have that vendor set it. I would only do the other way around if I had my heart set on a particular setting that the vendor I was buying the diamond from didn't carry.
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
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jstarfireb|1305852813|2926153 said:
Princess cuts are so hard to judge based on numbers - that's why ASETs and an AGS 0 for light performance matter so much (although as Yssie pointed out there is quite a bit of variation in AGS0 standards). I think the jury is still out on table size, and it comes down to a matter of personal preference in terms of facet patterning. Both ASETs look good - I do prefer the look of the simulated ASET on the 68% compared to the real on on the 59%, but it's also an apples to oranges comparison since you don't have the same types of ASETs for both. It could just be the method of photography, but I see a good deal more green in the 59%.

As Yssie mentioned, it's much less risky to get the stone and setting from the same vendor and have that vendor set it. I would only do the other way around if I had my heart set on a particular setting that the vendor I was buying the diamond from didn't carry.
Wow, now that gets tricky. My girlfriend doesn't wear any rings. Not only does she not wear any, she doesn't even own a ring. I would obviously like to surprise her if possible, so I was planning on measuring her roommate's ring size and go off on that since they have a similar hand size. Then take her to the local store to resize it after.

I know online jewelers let you send it back for resizing as well, but sending it back and forth is not ideal either. Hmm... is there a good way to do this?
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
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May 14, 2011
Messages
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I just noticed that the diamond with the 59% table size has a depth of 75.9%. Is that too much? Some sites say that it should be less than 72%, some say that it should be less than 75%. Either way, the depth of this diamond will still be out of that range.

Again, this is the AGS report in case you want to see it again.
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
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Tough call. Can you enlist her roommate to go shopping with her, just "happen" to walk into a jewelry store and try on rings? Odds are her roommate's size won't be right. Two hands that look similar from afar can have completely different ring sizes. To me it would be too much of a gamble, but I'm a girl who had full say in my ring design and stone selection (I'm a control freak and obsessed with jewelry, so I wouldn't have had it any other way).
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
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yeah, even a 1/2 size can make a ring too big or too small. I would definitely try to get a more accurate size! maybe even enlist the friend to help her 'try' on rings.

sizing is tough...even if you order the right size it may vary slightly from jeweler to jeweler and vary depending on the type of band.
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
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True dat. I for example am exactly a 6.75...6.5 won't get over my knuckle, and 7 spins around on my finger and threatens to fall off. So even a quarter size off is too much. Additionally, my fingers are long and slim except at the knuckles, which are the limiting factor. So just by looking, you might guess that my ring size is much smaller than it actually is. Obviously this is just an example, but everyone's hands are shaped differently. And few things spoil a perfect proposal like a ring that doesn't fit!
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
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Lol. So I made up some excuse and measured her finger with string last night. Actually, I took off the headphones of my iphone and measured her ring finger with the chord. I was all happy and proud of how "slick" I was, then I looked up the measurements online and I think I must've been totally off. Probably by like 2 sizes. Failed!

I guess I have to take her to a jeweler one day to get this thing over with once and for all.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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ags0|1305903857|2926549 said:
Lol. So I made up some excuse and measured her finger with string last night. Actually, I took off the headphones of my iphone and measured her ring finger with the chord. I was all happy and proud of how "slick" I was, then I looked up the measurements online and I think I must've been totally off. Probably by like 2 sizes. Failed!

I guess I have to take her to a jeweler one day to get this thing over with once and for all.

:bigsmile: Yeah - I measured myself with string and discovered I was a 7.5... that's 3.5 off 8)


Get her measured with metal sizers of the approximate width you're considering for the ring (or actually, for both rings combined, if she plans to wear both Ering and wband). A 6mm wide ring (or two 3mm wide rings) will fit somewhat tighter than a single 2mm wide ring. This is especially important if you're going with a pave-intensive piece, tension setting, something that makes it hard to size after the fact.
 
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