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What specs should I aim for $30,000 budget?

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lindamelody91

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
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Hi everyone,

I have done a lot of research on the 4C's online, but I know that I'm still lacking in expertise and would like some help from the Pricescope community. :) My boyfriend and I are both medical students so his parents will be paying for the ring as a gift with a $30,000 max budget. I also don't want to upgrade in the future and want this to be my forever ring.

What kind of specs should I am for to get a diamond that is very sparkly and white (but I don't want to pay for something I cannot see).

1) min. 2.00 carat round
2) Excellent Cut
3) VS2
4) F Color (or G if it looks very white, H looks too yellow?)
5) No Florescence
6) Ring size is 3 in Tiffany-style solitaire band

Here are some I found on James Allen that I thought looked okay. Any opinions?

1) HCA 0.9 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.24-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2077657

2) HCA 1.2: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.57-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2338516

Thank you in advance!
 
Congratulations!

I'm no expert, and have am doing research myself. With a $30,000 budget, why not go with a hearts and arrow diamond?

My personal criteria for the most sparkly diamond would be AGS Ideal 0 cut at the very minimum. No offense to GIA but i've read AGS scrutinizes cut more in depth than GIA. From there, I'd find a hearts and arrow diamond. Personally, I've watched too many youtube videos comparing color of an I vs F/G and its hardly noticeable. Comparisons with clarity are even less noticeable when comparing VS2 vs SI2.

I'm sure others would agree that this diamond below would out sparkle the diamonds you linked.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3568732.htm?source=pricescope

However since you have the budget for it, this diamond fits your better fits your criteria

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3634976.htm?source=pricescope
 
Thanks for the suggestions! I don't know too much about Hearts & Arrows, but I thought a GIA Triple Excellent + <2 HCA score would look exactly the same (I am probably wrong, haha :think: ).

Do you think the first choice is superior to the 2nd? (Hearts & Arrows is more expensive so I have to go lower in color/clarity :doh:)
1) Hearts & Arrow H color, "eye-clean" SI1
2) GIA Triple Excellent F color, VS2
 
lindamelody91|1483938722|4113681 said:
Hi everyone,

I have done a lot of research on the 4C's online, but I know that I'm still lacking in expertise and would like some help from the Pricescope community. :) My boyfriend and I are both medical students so his parents will be paying for the ring as a gift with a $30,000 max budget. I also don't want to upgrade in the future and want this to be my forever ring.

What kind of specs should I am for to get a diamond that is very sparkly and white (but I don't want to pay for something I cannot see).

1) min. 2.00 carat round
2) Excellent Cut
3) VS2
4) F Color (or G if it looks very white, H looks too yellow?)
5) No Florescence
6) Ring size is 3 in Tiffany-style solitaire band

Here are some I found on James Allen that I thought looked okay. Any opinions?

1) HCA 0.9 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.24-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2077657

2) HCA 1.2: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.57-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2338516

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

Hey there from one newbie to another. :wavey:

First up, congrats on the impending celebrations (?) and welcome to this motley crew here on PS.

The two stones you looked at on JA look relatively good. While the HCA scores for both appear to be good, the HCA is a filtering tool not a selection tool. If you see anything under 2.0, that means the stone warrants further investigation before you splash your in-laws cash :)

Re: priorities when it comes to the stone, you've got it right when you are aiming for an Excellent cut as a minimum. Most PS'ers value cut moreso than anything else as that plays a major part in how white your stone looks face up. It isn't the body colour of the stone that really determines how white it looks (or the stone's beauty) - it's the cut quality. So most of us here would probably suggest that instead of a GIA Triple Excellent stone that you go for a stone that has been graded by AGS as being a Triple Zero in terms of cut.

Why? Both labs grade for symmetry, but AGS takes it one step further by looking at optical symmetry and how it then bears out in light performance. Some GIA Triple XXX's sound really good on paper, but if the optical symmetry is out, that could actually make the stone look less impressive than another stone which has lesser gradings for colour and clarity but is a top of the line AGS 000 in cut. Furthermore, a well cut stone can help to mask inclusions due to reflected white light hitting your eye so that you don't notice a crystal, feather, etc.

If you haven't taken a look at the Good Old Gold YouTube channel, I'd highly recommend you do as Rhino (i.e. Jonathan Weingarten) has some great videos that give an introduction on diamond colour in both face-up view as well as body-up view. And comparisons where GIA XXX stones are placed beside AGS 000 stones and one can see a noticeable difference. If you are sensitive to colour, the G-H range is generally safe and where you get the best bang for buck (which means that you can hopefully get a larger stone). Otherwise, I'd also keep I (and even J) colour stones in play as well when you are searching.

My wife will soon be the owner of a new 0.962ct K-coloured VS2 stone from Brian Gavin Diamonds. Compared with a previous stone that I bought for her (a 0.7ct G SI1 GIA Triple Excellent stone set in 18kt white gold bought from a local Australian B&M retailer who shall remain nameless), her new stone as set in 18kt white gold faces up as white to the naked eye as the G coloured one. Part of the reason is the cut quality of this stone is far superior but the second reason is that it is fluorescent.

Which brings us to fluorescence. It isn't as bad a thing as some sites (and retailers, online or B&M) make it out to be. Though the thing is trying to find a fluorescent stone that has been scrutinized to ensure that the fluorescence doesn't impede the optical performance of the stone is another issue. For that, I would take a look at the Brian Gavin Blue range.

Over at BGD, the stones that would fit within your budget and are over 2ct are as follows:

2.143ct H/SI1 Brian Gavin Signature Hearts & Arrows
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.143-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-104087779002

2.043 H/VS1 Brian Gavin Blue
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.043-h-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104086693003

For your consideration of course.

Not all GIA XXX's will exhibit hearts & arrows patterning (though some come very close). But you will end up searching and searching. Some people like that thrill. Others, maybe not.

Clarity wise, VS2's are generally safe for being eye-clean. SI1's in the 2+ ct range you might need to pay a bit more attention to so you don't have any major inclusions showing up under the table.

Looking at Whiteflash, apart from the two stones that Vinny has suggested, what about these options?

2.70ct I/VS2 A Cut Above (this is just under the $30k budget based on wire price)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3737016.htm

2.66ct J/VS2 A Cut Above
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508579.htm

2.617ct I/SI1 A Cut Above
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3701014.htm

2.527ct J/VS2 A Cut Above
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3686854.htm

2.492ct J/VS2 A Cut Above
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3755581.htm

Re: clarity, you can go down to a SI1, provided that the inclusions do not affect light performance. If you're worried about that, staying with a VS2 or higher is a good choice as they are usually eye clean.

Of the two JA stones you picked out, I reckon both of them are better than the rest of the others that I saw when looking through the JA inventory list. There is a degree of optical symmetry to both that the vast majority of the other stones listed don't have. So good spotting! :) If these two end up in your final shortlist, try to request ASET and/or Idealscope images of both stones so you can compare them with the suggestions that Vinny and I have linked to in our posts.

Good luck with the search!
 
I think there has been great advice provided but I wouldn't agree with the following:

It isn't the body colour of the stone that really determines how white it looks (or the stone's beauty) - it's the cut quality. So most of us here would probably suggest that instead of a GIA Triple Excellent stone that you go for a stone that has been graded by AGS as being a Triple Zero in terms of cut.
Not all GIA XXX's will exhibit hearts & arrows patterning (though some come very close

For me body color is a huge deal. Diamonds are looked at from all angles and I don't only want the top to be white. Many GIAXXX's have perfect H&A patterns too.

Just need to learn to search for specific crown, table sizes and pavilion angles and then get images. To limit yourself to only AGS stones is a mistake. Many have argued that AGS tends to grade color easier where a GIA G could be an AGS H. AGS grades 2% of all diamonds where GIA grades like 66%. That's a lot of missed opportunities to rule out GIA.

For this amount of money I would take my time, search the forum for pavilion and crown angles, get images and look at a lot of stones. There are a lot of GIA duds out there but there are many beauties.
 
It's highly individual whether you can see body color in H vs F. Most people can't, few can. The best way to figure this out is to find a store that sells ideal GIA certed stones and ask to see various colors. Make sure to look away from the lights because they make everything look amazing. My personal preference is to go for cut, then mm, then color/clarity to maximize the face up look. Try to prioritize down your preferences first.
 
Thank you everyone for the feedback! I feel like I learn something new everyday and I'm driving my boyfriend nuts because I am nowhere closer to picking a diamond since a month ago. :wall:

My criteria is a to have a very sparkly 2 carat diamond, eye-clean, and white face up and from the side to the layman. That was why I was looking at GIA triple excellent, F color, VS2 initially until I learned that not all "GIA EX" are guaranteed to be great cuts and a lot of them had bad optical symmetry on James Allen.

I think my 2 choices now are to either buy:
1) White Flash ACA diamond H color
2) James Allen GIA Triple Excellent F color and sift through all the diamond and look at the Idealscope images :read: :eh:
 
Give Whiteflash a call and let them know what you are looking for. They sometimes have new stones coming in that they can talk with you about as well. You have a healthy budget and should be able to get a very beautiful diamond!
 
lindamelody91|1483954987|4113701 said:
Thanks for the suggestions! I don't know too much about Hearts & Arrows, but I thought a GIA Triple Excellent + <2 HCA score would look exactly the same (I am probably wrong, haha :think: ).
Yes, I'm afraid this would not be correct. You can read all about H&A and Whiteflash ACAs here...lots of good info on their site.
http://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds
http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/benefits-of-hearts-and-arrows-diamonds-1521.htm


Do you think the first choice is superior to the 2nd? (Hearts & Arrows is more expensive so I have to go lower in color/clarity :doh:)
1) Hearts & Arrow H color, "eye-clean" SI1
2) GIA Triple Excellent F color, VS2
Click to expand...

If I had your budget I would go with Whiteflash...this stone is gorgeous! The Whiteflash people are really lovely too...very nice
to work with.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3634976.htm?source=pricescope
 
I would choose the F colour. I recently got a new engagement ring - I finally chose an E colour but I could clearly see the difference between the E and and H colour. It depends on your taste in colour but I like the bright white look. Good luck with finding the perfect diamond for you.
 
I think until you have a colorless diamond (D,E,F) as a comparison then they all look kind of white at first glance until you get to I and J. I can spot a J a mile away, I don't even need to be close to see the tint. In an I, they to me look more or less white from the top but I can see the tint quite easily from the side. I have an E coloured diamond and I can tell a G or H only if they are next to my stone. I can't tell the difference between E and F. Because of the that personally I would never go lower than a G but I would be more comfortable with a F. You need to go to a store really and compare as your tastes and sensitivities may be different. That's my two pence worth as a lay person on colour :).
 
lindamelody91|1484028387|4113945 said:
white face up and from the side to the layman
Click to expand...

White from the side might force you to a higher color grade. Regardless of the cut quality, the color shows much more strongly when viewed side-on than from the top. For a visual see this GOG video.

In many traditional rings the setting and gallery rail hide much of the side but in a tension setting the side may be fully exposed.

And having a gold ring may disguise a yellow-colored diamond.

But if you're going for a platinum tension setting and you don't want any color to show from the side, then you might want to go for D, E, or F.
 
With your budget, this would be my thought process:
1. Stick to ideal cut (AGS0)
2. Visit a few jewelers with well cut stones to understand your personal sensitivities (maybe a hearts on fire dealer) just as an educational experience. Use this to choose your color preference
3. Decide your level of mind-clean vs. eye-clean preference. I'd say VS1 would be plenty mind-clean, while SI1 might be very eye clean
4. Solving for ASG0 and your clarity and color limits, let the size adjust within your budget
5. Live happily ever after with your bling

If it were me, with your budget, I would probably want a G or H eye clean SI1 with killer cut.

Also does your budget include a setting? Depending on what you want, you may want to set aside $2-5k for a lovely setting to complement a great stone
 
Thank you everyone for your input. :angel: I think my boyfriend and I might visit the Whiteflash showroom in Houston after our Boards to take a look at how sensitive we are to color and look at their settings also. It's kind of far from where we live but he wants to visit before he spends $30k on the ring. I think I want the Vatche U-113 setting or their 6-prong knife-edge setting.

Does anyone have any preference between Whiteflash and Brian Gavin? I think they're both located near each other. I thought they were the same thing initially, but is BG supposed to be even better cut? :cry: (or if we should go to a different showroom in NYC or LA :wall: ... trailing off again but I think we have decided on Whiteflash)
 
lindamelody91|1484119339|4114277 said:
Thank you everyone for your input. :angel: I think my boyfriend and I might visit the Whiteflash showroom in Houston after our Boards to take a look at how sensitive we are to color and look at their settings also. It's kind of far from where we live but he wants to visit before he spends $30k on the ring. I think I want the Vatche U-113 setting or their 6-prong knife-edge setting.

Does anyone have any preference between Whiteflash and Brian Gavin? I think they're both located near each other. I thought they were the same thing initially, but is BG supposed to be even better cut? :cry: (or if we should go to a different showroom in NYC or LA :wall: ... trailing off again but I think we have decided on Whiteflash)
Click to expand...

Re: Whiteflash and Brian Gavin, I think both of them produce stones of unparalleled beauty. Apart from them, there's also Crafted By Infinity, Victor Canera (who is based out in LA) and Good Old Gold (in NY) as well who also produce super-ideal cut diamonds. Depending on what's available in their inventory at the time (and the cost which each of the companies have to produce the diamonds), you may find that you get a good deal at Whiteflash one time but a good deal at BGD at other times.

Any potential confusion about Brian Gavin's role with Whiteflash rests in that he was one of the founders of Whiteflash before he parted ways with it in 2008 (I think) and then opened up his own showroom and range in 2009. I think they're located in the same complex even (someone in Houston, feel free to correct me on that). If you are going to visit the Whiteflash showroom and you have enough time, you might want to call ahead to BGD and see if you can set up an appointment to see stones and their range there as well. I've been dealing with Lesley Harris for my recent BGD purchase/s and I think she is Brian's wife.
 
Hi Linda,

Go one step further and ask Wink from HPD about Crafted By Infinity cut to order to exactly the spec you want.

Have a read at this. For me personally, you will not get better service and they also offer a See it to believe it service where you can also compare it to the other vendor diamonds.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-cut-to-order-crafted-by-infinity-diamond-part-two.208250/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-cut-to-order-crafted-by-infinity-diamond-part-two.208250/[/URL]

See it to believe it

http://highperformancediamonds.com/company/see-it-to-believe-it/

Good luck!
 
As far as Houston goes, I cannot recommend Whiteflash highly enough. I do highly recommend a visit if you can! I was fortunate to visit WF last February, and it was a wonderful experience. They are very strict with the stones they choose for their ACA line, and their Expert Selection stones are more like the best stones that other big vendors carry. They also have an outstanding setting selection, and for the Tiffany repros, they definitely have the best two options, in my opinion. Many people here have the Vatche U-113 (including myself) or their own Tiffany style kinfe edge solitaire. It would make your decision easier to see the shank sizes of both and try on wedding bands with them, too.
 
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