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what should I be looking for with 7k?

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kolchak

Rough_Rock
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Oct 28, 2009
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Hi
I''m confused & hoping I''m not wearing out my welcome here.
I want to spend ~7k on a "round" stone & not looking for a perfect diamond. Prefer to get something at least 1.7+ ca., that looks "eye clean" and at least H clarity.
Can someone please reccomend what other specs I should be looking for & if this sounds possible?
Is a certification is absolutely necesarry when buying a diamond if it is appraised or assessed by a good jewler?
Thanks again!
 
My opinion of what you should be looking for is the best cut.
Color and clarity is secondary to cut when it comes to diamond beauty.

If you absolutely must have such a large diamond for such a low price I'd consider this one.

Link
 
Date: 11/4/2009 12:41:28 PM
Author:kolchak


I want to spend ~7k on a 'round' stone & not looking for a perfect diamond. Prefer to get something at least 1.7+ ca., that looks 'eye clean' and at least H clarity.
Click to expand...

i had some time and did a quick search and i cannot even find anything popping up with your requirements
i was searching at SI2 and you would still have to drop to a J colour to get barely 1.7+ ct
and that is just merely to have some choices (not even taking into account cut quality)
 
Date: 11/4/2009 12:41:28 PM
Author:kolchak
Hi
I''m confused & hoping I''m not wearing out my welcome here.
I want to spend ~7k on a ''round'' stone & not looking for a perfect diamond. Prefer to get something at least 1.7+ ca., that looks ''eye clean'' and at least H clarity.
Can someone please reccomend what other specs I should be looking for & if this sounds possible?
Is a certification is absolutely necesarry when buying a diamond if it is appraised or assessed by a good jewler?
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
I would be looking at something like this or this.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1246338.asp (ask the gemologist if its eye clean to your standard and if they have other choices).
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1263978.asp (Ask them about if the inclusions are visible by eye and if there are durability issues with this one).

Basically you are under budget for this size of stone and you will have to have an expert look at borderline diamonds anything you find in this range and color will potentially have one or more things wrong on paper and will require an expert eye to determine if they are an issue or not.
 
Date: 11/4/2009 1:03:11 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover


Date: 11/4/2009 12:41:28 PM
Author:kolchak
Hi
I'm confused & hoping I'm not wearing out my welcome here.
I want to spend ~7k on a 'round' stone & not looking for a perfect diamond. Prefer to get something at least 1.7+ ca., that looks 'eye clean' and at least H clarity.
Can someone please reccomend what other specs I should be looking for & if this sounds possible?
Is a certification is absolutely necesarry when buying a diamond if it is appraised or assessed by a good jewler?
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
I would be looking at something like this or this.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1246338.asp (ask the gemologist if its eye clean to your standard and if they have other choices).
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1263978.asp (Ask them about if the inclusions are visible by eye and if there are durability issues with this one).

Basically you are under budget for this size of stone and you will have to have an expert look at borderline diamonds anything you find in this range and color will potentially have one or more things wrong on paper and will require an expert eye to determine if they are an issue or not.
Click to expand...
Need to be careful with the first diamond above as it has grade setting clouds in SI2, these can sometimes impact performance, so a gemologist would need to evaluate this diamond.

The second diamond looks good, shouldn't be durability issues if the feather checks out ( these aren't normally an issue in SI2).
 
Thanks for your quick replies. I met with a person last night who was referred by a good friend and has run a home based diamond biz for 20+ years. She showed me a 1.7 that was supposedly an SI2, very cut good cut and H clarity for 7,200. It looked beautiful, but obviously I don''t really know what I''m looking at. Based on what I have seen here it seems to good to be true.
She brought several stones to show me that all came packed in little folded blue papers with the specs printed labels and pasted on the outside of the papers. I think she gets them from NY. I''ve asked to see a certification for the stones but she has yet to reply.
TY!
 
Date: 11/4/2009 1:09:00 PM
Author: kolchak
Thanks for your quick replies. I met with a person last night who was referred by a good friend and has run a home based diamond biz for 20+ years. She showed me a 1.7 that was supposedly an SI2, very cut good cut and H clarity for 7,200. It looked beautiful, but obviously I don''t really know what I''m looking at. Based on what I have seen here it seems to good to be true.
She brought several stones to show me that all came packed in little folded blue papers with the specs printed labels and pasted on the outside of the papers. I think she gets them from NY. I''ve asked to see a certification for the stones but she has yet to reply.
TY!
Click to expand...
What was the grading report on this one kolchak, GIA or other lab?
 
Date: 11/4/2009 1:09:00 PM
Author: kolchak
Thanks for your quick replies. I met with a person last night who was referred by a good friend and has run a home based diamond biz for 20+ years. She showed me a 1.7 that was supposedly an SI2, very cut good cut and H clarity for 7,200. It looked beautiful, but obviously I don't really know what I'm looking at. Based on what I have seen here it seems to good to be true.
She brought several stones to show me that all came packed in little folded blue papers with the specs printed labels and pasted on the outside of the papers. I think she gets them from NY. I've asked to see a certification for the stones but she has yet to reply.
TY!
Click to expand...
Be very careful with stones where you haven't seen a GIA or AGS certificate. Many other labs or appraisals are softer and/or less consistent.
Even with Tier 2 or Tier 3 labs like EGL the actual color could be 2 grades lower and clarity one or two grades lower as well than what GIA or AGS would give them.
Nowadays it seems everyone knows a friend of a friend I'd be very careful, you should realize that the markup on diamonds on the internet is usually quite small sometimes as little 5 - 15%. So anyone offering you a "better" deal may be offering a stone that would have been graded lower if it had a GIA certificate.
 
Date: 11/4/2009 1:09:00 PM
Author: kolchak
Thanks for your quick replies. I met with a person last night who was referred by a good friend and has run a home based diamond biz for 20+ years. She showed me a 1.7 that was supposedly an SI2, very cut good cut and H clarity for 7,200. It looked beautiful, but obviously I don''t really know what I''m looking at. Based on what I have seen here it seems to good to be true.

She brought several stones to show me that all came packed in little folded blue papers with the specs printed labels and pasted on the outside of the papers. I think she gets them from NY. I''ve asked to see a certification for the stones but she has yet to reply.

TY!
Click to expand...

Off the bat, I''d say it definitely sounds too good to be true, and probably isn''t certified or at least not with a reputable company. If you want something that large, you need to increase your budget, or decrease your quality, but frankly, I would rather have a smaller stone that was a great performer than a bigger stone that was dull or visibly included.
 
I''d never buy from a relative or friend of a friend.
I think this increases rather than decreases the chance you''ll get ripped off.

I''d never buy a stone unless it had a GIA or AGS report.

Just my opinion.
 
Thanks once more for the great replies and suggestions. Seems like James Allen is a very popular choice here or just has a great search function? Are they one of the better on line dealers?
I''m supposed to be getting the cert for the 1.7 ca. diamond (from friend of friend) and will post the results. It certainly looked clean & very white but I could have been looking at a QZ and not known the difference
23.gif
. So glad I found this place.
Never having bought a diamond, is their anything inherently wrong with the strategy of looking for a slightly bigger, bright, eye clean stone that might have minor imperfections? As long as it looks great to the naked eye I could live with some issues because most people won''t be looking at the ring through a loop or scope. My GF might disagree so please let me know if I''m out of line or being cheap.
Thanks Much!
 
James Alan are one of the cheapest dealers. I think due purely to the fact that you are pushing your budget people are looking there.

My advice is to avoid family and friends in any significant purchase. The risk of coming away from it with a damaged relationship is too high and losing a friend or relationship with a family member isn''t worth it.

Good luck with your search :)
 
Date: 11/4/2009 11:38:16 PM
Author: kolchak
Thanks once more for the great replies and suggestions. Seems like James Allen is a very popular choice here or just has a great search function? Are they one of the better on line dealers?

Thanks Much!
Click to expand...

not necessarily

go to http://www.idjewelryonline.com/

i found EIGHT diamonds that could meed your criteria
you have to check if its eye clean or you just have to lower your eyeclean standards
wire price is the lower price of the two
and prices are always negotiable so i searched a range of up to 7500usd for you

good luck!


EL313-308 1.73 H I1 Excellent VG VG $6,008 $6,131 GIA
YK11684508 1.78 G I1 Ideal EX EX $6,283 $6,412 GIA
AFL748B 1.72 H I1 Very Good G EX $6,474 $6,607 GIA
EL242-0743 1.84 H I1 Very Good VG VG $6,639 $6,775 GIA
EL313-305 1.75 E I1 Excellent EX VG $6,786 $6,925 GIA
EL261-1320 1.79 F I1 Good VG VG $7,090 $7,235 GIA
EDP-753 1.70 D I1 Ideal EX EX $7,170 $7,317 GIA
AFL546-4 1.75 G I1 Excellent VG VG $7,234 $7,382 GIA
 
Date: 11/5/2009 12:42:00 AM
Author: haagen_dazs

Date: 11/4/2009 11:38:16 PM
Author: kolchak

Thanks once more for the great replies and suggestions. Seems like James Allen is a very popular choice here or just has a great search function? Are they one of the better on line dealers?

Thanks Much!
Click to expand...

not necessarily

go to http://www.idjewelryonline.com/

i found EIGHT diamonds that could meed your criteria
you have to check if its eye clean or you just have to lower your eyeclean standards
wire price is the lower price of the two
and prices are always negotiable so i searched a range of up to 7500usd for you

good luck!


EL313-308 1.73 H I1 Excellent VG VG $6,008 $6,131 GIA
YK11684508 1.78 G I1 Ideal EX EX $6,283 $6,412 GIA
AFL748B 1.72 H I1 Very Good G EX $6,474 $6,607 GIA
EL242-0743 1.84 H I1 Very Good VG VG $6,639 $6,775 GIA
EL313-305 1.75 E I1 Excellent EX VG $6,786 $6,925 GIA
EL261-1320 1.79 F I1 Good VG VG $7,090 $7,235 GIA
EDP-753 1.70 D I1 Ideal EX EX $7,170 $7,317 GIA
AFL546-4 1.75 G I1 Excellent VG VG $7,234 $7,382 GIA
Click to expand...
Just because a vendor offers stones graded by IGI or EGL or graded I1 doesn''t make them cheaper!
Pay attention to these things, we tend not to reccomend I1 stones here as they are rarely eye clean.
 
There are eyeclean I1 diamonds out there ( I own 2) and if a buyer is on a budget and is willing to consider an I1 diamond then I will certainly do my best to help them find one, it can be a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack with the commercial I1's, but it can be done.
 

Thanks for all the leg work Mark - these stones below seem great.
Is the problem or danger with these type of stones that as I1 they will have visable flaws? Is it possible to explain how to see the flaws so I know what to look for?
I don''t mind going down to the 1.5 range or spending a little more if it means getting a much better stone as my criteria primarilly came from what I was offered by the lady I mentioned.
As soon as I see her cert. I''ll post it.

BTW - she isn''t a friend but someone my friend has used in the past and been happy with.

EL313-308 1.73 H I1 Excellent VG VG $6,008 $6,131 GIA
YK11684508 1.78 G I1 Ideal EX EX $6,283 $6,412 GIA
AFL748B 1.72 H I1 Very Good G EX $6,474 $6,607 GIA
EL242-0743 1.84 H I1 Very Good VG VG $6,639 $6,775 GIA
EL313-305 1.75 E I1 Excellent EX VG $6,786 $6,925 GIA
EL261-1320 1.79 F I1 Good VG VG $7,090 $7,235 GIA
EDP-753 1.70 D I1 Ideal EX EX $7,170 $7,317 GIA
AFL546-4 1.75 G I1 Excellent VG VG $7,234 $7,382 GIA

 
Date: 11/5/2009 8:48:19 AM
Author: kolchak



Thanks for all the leg work Mark - these stones below seem great.
Is the problem or danger with these type of stones that as I1 they will have visable flaws? Is it possible to explain how to see the flaws so I know what to look for?

I will just jump in here and say yes it is probable than an I1 diamond especially of this size will have visible flaws. The trick is to work with a vendor who has physical access to the diamond and can discuss the visibility of the inclusions with you. There are eyeclean to eyecleanish I1's out there but you do need a trusted vendor to be your eyes. I1 clarities are not created equal so decide what your standards are for an eyeclean diamond ( for example if a diamond is reasonably clean face up or has an inclusion which can be hidden by a prong, is that acceptable) and so on.

If you are open to an I1 clarity diamond then we can certainly help you look for one.


I don't mind going down to the 1.5 range or spending a little more if it means getting a much better stone as my criteria primarilly came from what I was offered by the lady I mentioned.
As soon as I see her cert. I'll post it.

BTW - she isn't a friend but someone my friend has used in the past and been happy with.

EL313-308 1.73 H I1 Excellent VG VG $6,008 $6,131 GIA
YK11684508 1.78 G I1 Ideal EX EX $6,283 $6,412 GIA
AFL748B 1.72 H I1 Very Good G EX $6,474 $6,607 GIA
EL242-0743 1.84 H I1 Very Good VG VG $6,639 $6,775 GIA
EL313-305 1.75 E I1 Excellent EX VG $6,786 $6,925 GIA
EL261-1320 1.79 F I1 Good VG VG $7,090 $7,235 GIA
EDP-753 1.70 D I1 Ideal EX EX $7,170 $7,317 GIA
AFL546-4 1.75 G I1 Excellent VG VG $7,234 $7,382 GIA





Click to expand...
 
Here is a nice diamond if eyeclean and the cloud inclusion isn't an issue ( ask JA)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1255448.asp

Ask if the diamond below is eyeclean

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-I1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1107215.asp

This one too

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1259947.asp

And this one, falls within fiery ideal cut range which means basically it could show extra fire if the lighting is right.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1227555.asp
 

Lorelei - which company do you work for? If this other stone turns out to be a lemon I''d like to speak with you about my options.

 
Date: 11/5/2009 9:47:11 AM
Author: kolchak


Lorelei - which company do you work for? If this other stone turns out to be a lemon I'd like to speak with you about my options.

Click to expand...
Hi Kolchak

I don't work for a company as I am just a consumer, but please feel free to ask me anything you want and I will do my best to help!

ETA - I should just add my focus is on helping other consumers and I try to help them find the right diamond regardless of where it may be sold, I am here primarily for the consumer. You can tell those who are affiliated with various companies as their credentials will appear bottom of their posts.
 
None of us that suggested stones work for any company, it is against forum rules for vendors to hawk their goods in the forum.
 
Date: 11/5/2009 12:50:23 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Just because a vendor offers stones graded by IGI or EGL or graded I1 doesn''t make them cheaper!

Pay attention to these things, we tend not to reccomend I1 stones here as they are rarely eye clean.
Click to expand...

hi ChunkyCushionLover
i just produced a list that the OP could potentially look at
i dont know the OP''s standards for eyeclean but since he wants his diamond to meet certain criterias, at least there are options out there and the OP will (after doing some homework) possibly find something nice

who knows?
28.gif
 
Date: 11/5/2009 8:48:19 AM
Author: kolchak


Thanks for all the leg work Mark - these stones below seem great.

Is the problem or danger with these type of stones that as I1 they will have visable flaws? Is it possible to explain how to see the flaws so I know what to look for?

I don''t mind going down to the 1.5 range or spending a little more if it means getting a much better stone as my criteria primarilly came from what I was offered by the lady I mentioned.
Click to expand...



Kolchak

Contact Yekutiel at http://www.idjewelryonline.com/
He worked alongside me and provides excellent customer service.


As for what is good or bad in I1, you would have to research and read up on that in this forum.
This forum has a wealth of information

If you want to increase your budget, i dont think you really need to drop in size.
Your increase in budget can help you get a better clarity stone eg SI1 or SI2

Someone mentioned that you should deal with vendors that have access to many many stones.

I second that and I think its best to work with ppl in the NYC diamond district.
They are at the center of the diamond universe in USA and they can source for you almost instantly whatever diamonds they list.

They send their runners to get diamonds all around NYC.
Personally i love this because i dont have to deal with paying vendors to ship stones to them to check if its eye clean etc etc
 
Kolchak, your skepticism is understandable.

Lorelei is just a very very nice person who spends countless hours helping others find great diamonds.

I do not pretend to be in her ballpark, but I also have no life
9.gif
and spend time here because of a passion for diamonds.

We all want the most diamond for the money but when you want that one-in-a-million needle-in-a-haystack diamond you have to commit yourself to lots of education and legwork.
 

Thanks so much everyone - this is such a great forum. I use these types of forums all the time and this is definitely one of the most helpful & friendly I''ve found. It''s great getting honest opinions & advice from people without a vested interest in the specific transaction.


I just received fax copy of the cert for the 1.7 that I was considering for 7,000. It''s from EGL (I know not one of the better labs) but can''t quite read the cert #. I realize now why it seemed to good to be true - it is a CE !
29.gif
She has just lost my biz!
These are the specs on the 1.7 -
measurements - 8.24 - 8.19 x 5.2 mm
depth 63.3
width - 56
crown height 17
pavilion depth 42
polish - VG
symmetry - VG
SI2
Florescence - none
comment - clarity enhanced, fracture filled
laser drilled

She also showed me a 2 ca. CE Tolkowsky SI1 stone for 7,000 but represented the 1.7 as a natural stone, which really has me angry. She was really pushing the 2 ca CE because it was supposedly an awesome deal for a 2 ca. stone. I can read the EGL # on this stone as 2960024629.
Although I don''t want either CE stone, would either have been a good deal for 7k or would I have been taken?

Thanks again everyone!



 
Nay, not worth it. The cut is very deep, will look smaller than an equivalent 1.7c stone, might be ok as an FIC but will definitely need images. Price wise, a non CE EGL 1.7c H SI2 is priced at 4-7k online, so not much of a deal.
 
Wow, a non CE EGL 1.7 can be had for 4 to 7k? I was getting robbed!
Tonight I''ll start looking at the reccomendations all you kind folks have taken the time to suggest & be glad I did some homework.

BTW - What is FIC?

TY!
 
Date: 11/5/2009 1:49:37 PM
Author: kolchak


Wow, a non CE EGL 1.7 can be had for 4 to 7k? I was getting robbed!
Tonight I'll start looking at the reccomendations all you kind folks have taken the time to suggest & be glad I did some homework.

BTW - What is FIC?

TY!
Click to expand...
No to that last one Kolchak, its not well cut, I wouldn't advise getting a CE diamond anyway for an engagement ring. Fiery Ideal Cut means that a diamond is cut to certain proportions and can show more fire if the lighting is right. These sometimes have extra depth, small table, steep crown angle and pavilion angle of no more than 40.6 deg.
 
Date: 11/5/2009 1:31:36 PM
Author: kolchak
comment - clarity enhanced, fracture filled
laser drilled
Click to expand...
at least it was disclosed and you now know
it could have been worse if you were tricked into buying it......
 
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