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What really qualifies as naked eye clean?

PuppyLove

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
16
Does naked eye clean mean you can't see anything at 12" away? What about at 3"? If you can see something that close, should you discount it?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
definition varies from person to person. is it important that it is eye-clean at all angles from 6" to you? or only no glaringly obvious inclusions from 12" face up?

some jewelers post their definition on their website, when in doubt, ask
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Depends on your age. :D

And your eyesight. :))

Its up to you to specify to your vendor though. Tell them from how eyeclean you want, 4", 6", 8", 12", all angles, or just from the top.

Of course, it isn't impossible to find an eyeclean gem that is SI2, but it is that much harder than to get an eyeclean stone from any distance and range than if you were shopping for a VS2 for example.

I've seen some vendors claim an I1 as eyeclean, but i find that hard to believe from all the images of I1 stones I've seen.
 

makemepretty

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Messages
987
To me, eye clean means not being able to see any inclusions with the naked eye from the top of the diamond, from ANY distance.
 

PuppyLove

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
16
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
PuppyLove said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
Depends on you. If you are just concern about others seeing the inclusions or you have long-sightedness, 12 inch is good enough. If you do not want to see inclusions yourself when you view it up close and have short-sightedness, 6 inch might not be good enough.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
PuppyLove|1311172590|2972929 said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
I don't like seeing inclusions under any circumstances. I like to look at my diamond very close. So for me the definition of eye clean is different than others, maybe close to yours. I think you need to stick to VS2, or keep looking for an SI1 that meets your needs. I have owned an SI1 that was eye clean to me. They exist.
 

crbl999

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
447
Dreamer_D|1311181609|2973070 said:
PuppyLove|1311172590|2972929 said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
I don't like seeing inclusions under any circumstances. I like to look at my diamond very close. So for me the definition of eye clean is different than others, maybe close to yours. I think you need to stick to VS2, or keep looking for an SI1 that meets your needs. I have owned an SI1 that was eye clean to me. They exist.
I have a BGD Signature H&A 1 ct. G SI2 which is eye clean. I can't see the inclusion unless I am 3 inches away from the stone looking at the pavilion and slowly rotating the stone...even then I have a lot of difficulty finding it. The grade setting inclusion is a table center low relief clear crystal. Other inclusions are twinning wisps. When Brian reviewed the stone with me he even stated it had "fantastic clarity". Eye clean SI1 and SI2 stones do exist, but are not easy to find.
 

coati

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
21,747
PuppyLove|1311172590|2972929 said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
It's reasonable if that is what you require. With the subjective term "eye clean" you set your own parameters. Vendors will have a different definition of what constitutes an eye clean diamond. As TristanC wrote, just make sure you communicate what you want with your vendor. Have their most eagle-eyed employee look at the stone with your eyesight and standards in mind.

If you require eye clean at all angles, make that clear, as most vendors will be judging from the face-up position. SI2 may be a toughie. My first stone was an eye clean (all angles) SI1, but I've subsequently had to move onto VS2 and above. I'm way too nearsighted. Case-by-case, though. You may find one. Good luck!
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
Dreamer_D|1311181609|2973070 said:
PuppyLove|1311172590|2972929 said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
I don't like seeing inclusions under any circumstances. I like to look at my diamond very close. So for me the definition of eye clean is different than others, maybe close to yours. I think you need to stick to VS2, or keep looking for an SI1 that meets your needs. I have owned an SI1 that was eye clean to me. They exist.
Ditto. I have really really good closeup vision (yay nearsightedness :rolleyes:) and I have an EGL-USA graded SI1 old cut that's totally eyeclean from all angles no matter how I stare. OK, well, every once in a blue moon the light catches one facet juuuuusst right and an inclusion is backlit if I'm looking close enough- but frankly, 99% of the time, it's invisible so I'd say it's quite eyeclean. Even from the side or upside down. So yeah, they do exist.

That being said? Hard to find. Especially the ones that are eyeclean from the side. Most vendors do not consider the side view in assessing eye-cleanliness unless you ask specifically. A typical vendor's definition of eyeclean is no visible inclusions from 8-10" face up only- so you'll need to communicate your wants clearly, as several folks have mentioned. It's not really reasonable or unreasonable one way or the other, y'know? If you want totally eyeclean from all angles, that's fine- just make sure to communicate clearly what you're looking for... and you may need some patience to find the right stone, or be flexible on other parameters.

Some inclusions that can be "better" (i.e., more likely to be eyeclean) are twinning wisps, and my SI1's grade making inclusion is actually a feather- clear inclusions like those are more likely to be hard to spot. Twinning wisps look intimidating on a clarity plot- huge! all over the place! arrows here and there!- but they're, oddly, often hard to spot to the naked eye. Not always, I've heard of black twinning wisps, but the really clean SI2s I've run across are twinning wisp stones.

ETA: Oh, and also- often the stones with the more marked up plots are better candidates for eye cleanliness, oddly. If a stone has a bunch of smaller inclusions, as opposed to one big one, that can make it an SI clarity... and those numerous inclusions, individually, can be invisible to the naked eye. It's the stones with the clean plots with the one major inclusion that are often less eyeclean IMO- it takes a bigger single inclusion to qualify a stone as an SI... which means it's more likely to be visible. It is a bit counter-intuitive.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,969
Naked eye clean?
I don't understand how being naked when looking at a diamond would affect how the diamond looks. :sun:
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
crbl999|1311182971|2973086 said:
Dreamer_D|1311181609|2973070 said:
PuppyLove|1311172590|2972929 said:
That helps. I am finding it nearly impossible to find an eye-clean SI1. I don't know how you find one that is an SI2. I think my personal interpretation is from all angles about 6" away. Is that a resonable interpretation?
I don't like seeing inclusions under any circumstances. I like to look at my diamond very close. So for me the definition of eye clean is different than others, maybe close to yours. I think you need to stick to VS2, or keep looking for an SI1 that meets your needs. I have owned an SI1 that was eye clean to me. They exist.
I have a BGD Signature H&A 1 ct. G SI2 which is eye clean. I can't see the inclusion unless I am 3 inches away from the stone looking at the pavilion and slowly rotating the stone...even then I have a lot of difficulty finding it. The grade setting inclusion is a table center low relief clear crystal. Other inclusions are twinning wisps. When Brian reviewed the stone with me he even stated it had "fantastic clarity". Eye clean SI1 and SI2 stones do exist, but are not easy to find.
Brian found you a *very* rare diamond then!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,409
From my perspective, eye clean means that I can't see an imperfection with my naked eye- no matter how closely I examine the diamond.
Good points about differences in eyesight- age also has a lot to do with this.
Personally, I don't care if there's an imperfection which can be seen if the diamond is viewed through the bottom- but other obviously do.
By all means discuss this with the vendor you select.
No matter what their age of eyesight, it's not all that difficult to correlate what one sees with naked eyes- and then with the loupe.
Sometimes I find that there's an imperfection my 53 year old eyes will not be able to pick up- but I know I would have been able to when I was 20.


This thread again highlights the common misconceptions about clarity grading.
The GIA clarity grade is not based on visibility of imperfection- rather the grade is based on the presence of imperfection.
For this reason there are many stones with I1 sized imperfections that either cut into many smaller pieces- none of which is visible to the eye, or, having an imperfection that located in a spot which makes it impossible to see with the naked eye- and sometimes it's even difficult with a loupe.
Having said that, there's far MORE I1 graded stones that DO show imperfection to the naked eye.

SI1 and 2 follow the same logic- with even higher percentages being eye clean.

Percentages- this is key.
Imagine a box of SI2 and I1 diamonds which is being picked over by buyers- and replenished once every six weeks or so.
They WILL pick all the eye clean ones first.
Over time, the percentages of non eye clean Si stones rises.
What this means is that the percentage of eye clean stones found in that box does not match the percentage of eye clean SI stones coming off the cutting wheel.
This is the internet, and SI diamond shopping in a nutshell.

Then the misconception is furthered by sellers pushing non graded, or misgraded stones- and calling heavily imperfect stones SI or I1
 
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