What is wrong with this VVS2?

[TheLady]

I have this diamond on hold, but I'm concerned. The price seems less than VS1 and VS2 I color I'm looking at. The price is $6210. HCA 1.5. I know the IS isn't perfect, but is it that bad? I also searched on PS for diamonds I VVS2 in the same carat range and found some lower prices. What possible issues could I have?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-7902304

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-7902304

 

[OoohShiny]

VVS stones are generally in lower demand - so somewhat paradoxically, I believe they can actually end up cheaper/better value than lower clarities.

 

[tyty333]

We're (PSers are) currently debating the idea of what is good enough for a typical diamond buyer that is not looking for a Super Ideal.
It's very subjective and a hard question to answer.

This stone does have some slight leakage under the table but not too bad IMO. People who are sticklers will say any leakage is a no-go.
(see if they can make a recommendation for a better stone in the same price range)

Did you look at the other stones that were lower priced (the ones you mentioned above)?

At VVS2 the pinpoints/clouds should not be an issue.

JA has a very good return policy in case you dont like the stone.

Here is another stone that is worth a look. See if you can get an idealscope or aset image. Little bit cheaper, little bit bigger...
(unless you have a reason you want to stick with JA).

1.23-Carat Round Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com

 

[sledge]

Here is another stone that is worth a look. See if you can get an idealscope or aset image. Little bit cheaper, little bit bigger...
(unless you have a reason you want to stick with JA).

1.23-Carat Round Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com

This stone has medium fluor, and is likely being discounted a few bucks as a result.

I have no issues with fluor. But as the buyer, you need to protect yourself and ensure the stone doesn't have a milky, hazy or oily effect to it. As part of the inspection process, you will want to test in a variety of lighting conditions including outside in direct sun, outside in indirect sun, indoors, etc.

Normally if problems exist they are in stronger intensities but that isn't a guarantee. To protect your interests, assume the worst and do thorough vetting and then be pleasantly surprised when/if it works out.

I do think it's worth putting this stone on reserve while you continue to shop around and decide.

The JA stone is pretty good but does have some leakage, as already pointed out. My personal preference would be to try to find one with no leakage if possible so I would look around a little more while it's on reserve. I will try to find something as well.

Can you help me understand your position on clarity? I think you posted VVS2 as it was a good price. You also mentioned VS1 and VS2.

Do you have cultural or mind clean reasons that would prevent you from buying a truly eye clean SI1 stone?

 

[flyingpig]

I think the leakage is exaggerated in the IS. It is probably partially due the diamond being tilted and potentially bad positioning of camera and ideal scope. I do not see noticeable mushiness, leakage, diamond body color in the video. It is very white and crisp with good light reflection.

 

[lovedogs]

I think the leakage is exaggerated in the IS. It is probably partially due the diamond being tilted and potentially bad positioning of camera and ideal scope. I do not see noticeable mushiness, leakage, diamond body color in the video. It is very white and crispy with good light reflection.

You don't think there's leakage right at the top (11 /12 o clock on the pic)? Asking for my own knowledge. I can see how what looks like leakage around the rest of the table is likely exaggerated, but thought the top was true leakage.

 

[flyingpig]

You don't think there's leakage right at the top (11 /12 o clock on the pic)? Asking for my own knowledge. I can see how what looks like leakage around the rest of the table is likely exaggerated, but thought the top was true leakage.

There might be minor leakage, but I do not think it is as bad as what the IS suggests. Such leakage is normally very obvious. I just do not see that in the video.
The diamond is clearly tilted to 11/12 o clock direction, and you often see some leakage in the same position/direction of the tilt, under the table.

 

[lovedogs]

There might be minor leakage, but I do not think it is as bad as what the IS suggests. Such leakage is normally very obvious. I just do not see that in the video.
The diamond is clearly tilted to 11/12 o clock direction, and you often see some leakage in the same position/direction of the tilt, under the table.

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification!

 

[TheLady]

Interesting that VSS2 are not sought after. Is there a reason?

I was looking at VS1 and VS2 originally..avoiding black marks, being eye/mind clean, lots of sparkle. Trying to stay under $6500 for around this size avoiding fluor. I expanded my search just to see what was out there and found a few VSS2 at better prices. I talked to a few consultants at JA and they all told me 7902304 was the best cut of the ones I was looking at. I know the crown is off from being Ideal. HCA 1.5 VG EX VG VG Looks its size.

Here is a VS1 I am looking at. Smaller with a bit of a higher price $6340. HCA 1.7 4-VG and looks its size.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-8052772

I think it was 8281142 (i think the HCA score was not good on this one) I asked about and was told 8077286 was a better option. Price $5750. This one worries me becasue it is IGI certified. That makes me wonder about the color. 1.6 VG VG VG EX Looks Bigger.

 

[TheLady]

7842946 was also an option when it was priced at $5860. Now priced at $6100. HCA 1.6 VG EX VG VG Looks its size. JA told me there wasn't an IS.

 

[TheLady]

This stone has medium fluor, and is likely being discounted a few bucks as a result.

I have no issues with fluor. But as the buyer, you need to protect yourself and ensure the stone doesn't have a milky, hazy or oily effect to it. As part of the inspection process, you will want to test in a variety of lighting conditions including outside in direct sun, outside in indirect sun, indoors, etc.

Normally if problems exist they are in stronger intensities but that isn't a guarantee. To protect your interests, assume the worst and do thorough vetting and then be pleasantly surprised when/if it works out.

I do think it's worth putting this stone on reserve while you continue to shop around and decide.

The JA stone is pretty good but does have some leakage, as already pointed out. My personal preference would be to try to find one with no leakage if possible so I would look around a little more while it's on reserve. I will try to find something as well.

Can you help me understand your position on clarity? I think you posted VVS2 as it was a good price. You also mentioned VS1 and VS2.

Do you have cultural or mind clean reasons that would prevent you from buying a truly eye clean SI1 stone?

I did look at this SI1, but the price is basically the same.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-8187947

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If you'd stick with 35.5 max for the crown angle, you'll get a better score on the HCA. I'd want excellent for everything but spread, which is usually very good when using ideal cut proportions. That's why I generally stay within the parameters which you have likely seen here when shopping for stones online:

table: 54-57 (maybe 5
depth: 62-62.3
crown angle: 34-35 (sometimes 35.5 works with a pav angle of 40.6)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

There's nothing wrong with VVS2. Normally it makes the price higher and since you can't see the difference between VS1 and VVS2, most people just go to the VS range for an eye-clean stone. However, sometimes for various reasons, a VVS stone won't be higher. Sometimes it's because the cutter wants to move the stone.

I'd stick with GIA grading. I don't like the cut on the IGI stone.

 

[TheLady]

If you'd stick with 35.5 max for the crown angle, you'll get a better score on the HCA. I'd want excellent for everything but spread, which is usually very good when using ideal cut proportions. That's why I generally stay within the parameters which you have likely seen here when shopping for stones online:

table: 54-57 (maybe 5
depth: 62-62.3
crown angle: 34-35 (sometimes 35.5 works with a pav angle of 40.6)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

There's nothing wrong with VVS2. Normally it makes the price higher and since you can't see the difference between VS1 and VVS2, most people just go to the VS range for an eye-clean stone. However, sometimes for various reasons, a VVS stone won't be higher. Sometimes it's because the cutter wants to move the stone.

I'd stick with GIA grading. I don't like the cut on the IGI stone.

Do I need to be looking at super ideal to stay in the correct parameters. I'm not sure I've seen any...without something else being wrong.

 

[OoohShiny]

Do I need to be looking at super ideal to stay in the correct parameters. I'm not sure I've seen any...without something else being wrong.

There's always a compromise somewhere!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Do I need to be looking at super ideal to stay in the correct parameters. I'm not sure I've seen any...without something else being wrong.

Not necessarily. There are certainly stones within those parameters in regular stock GIA stones. Many of the best cut stones may be quickly sold, but I see them. It shouldn't be too hard in the size range you're looking at.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's a beauty. Better cut than the first stone you posted, and less expensive!

1.21 carat (ct) GIA Round Loose Diamond I Color VVS2 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

(Remember lurkers are around here looking at stone recommendations, so please put anything on hold you are interested in.)

 

[TheLady]

Here's a beauty. Better cut than the first stone you posted, and less expensive!

1.21 carat (ct) GIA Round Loose Diamond I Color VVS2 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

(Remember lurkers are around here looking at stone recommendations, so please put anything on hold you are interested in.)

Thanks! Would the faint fluor be a concern?

 

[sledge]

Thanks! Would the faint fluor be a concern?

Absolutely not.

 

[TheLady]

Absolutely not.

I'm not familiar with that site. It's a good one to purchase from?

 

[TheLady]

Here's a beauty. Better cut than the first stone you posted, and less expensive!

1.21 carat (ct) GIA Round Loose Diamond I Color VVS2 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

(Remember lurkers are around here looking at stone recommendations, so please put anything on hold you are interested in.)

I went ahead and put this one on hold and requested other images. I don't think their video shows off the diamond very well. Does anyone have any insight on this vendor?

 

[lovedogs]

I went ahead and put this one on hold and requested other images. I don't think their video shows off the diamond very well. Does anyone have any insight on this vendor?

They are trustworthy, and are a recommended vendor on these boards. They don't have stones in-house (e.g. they are a drop shipper), but in my experience they have alwways been helpful and willing to answer questions.

 

[sledge]

They are trustworthy, and are a recommended vendor on these boards. They don't have stones in-house (e.g. they are a drop shipper), but in my experience they have alwways been helpful and willing to answer questions.

I've not worked with them either, but have heard good reviews about them. I believe the owner is Brian Pollard (@Diamond_Hawk), who I am assuming is brothers with @John Pollard (US director for CBI) but I could be mistaken.

Brian does participate on the board from time to time, although I don't see lots of posts from him.

Also, in threads of other people using B2C, I thought I've seen them offer a full array of performance & symmetry images (ASET, IS, H&A) along with detailed SARIN reports, similar to what IDJ does.

 

[TheLady]

They are supposed to get me more images. The original JA VVS2 has pinpoints and clouds. This one has cloud, pinpoint and feather. Should I be concerned about a feather in a VVS2? The HCA is 1.2 EX EX EX VG



Any thoughts on this one. VS2. Not sure about the inclusion on the table...would it be eye clean? HCA 0.6 EXx4 Looks Bigger

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...NDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I've not worked with them either, but have heard good reviews about them. I believe the owner is Brian Pollard (@Diamond_Hawk), who I am assuming is brothers with @John Pollard (US director for CBI) but I could be mistaken.

Brian does participate on the board from time to time, although I don't see lots of posts from him.

Also, in threads of other people using B2C, I thought I've seen them offer a full array of performance & symmetry images (ASET, IS, H&A) along with detailed SARIN reports, similar to what IDJ does.

Brian Pollard is indeed John's brother, but he is not the owner of B2C. I think he helps train their staff and also is the online presence here. Both of them are really nice guys! B2C is a long time PS vendor and I can't recall hearing anything negative about them.

@TheLady

Faint fluorescence is a non-issue. VS1 and higher clarity are clean and have no concerns. You have to start being cautious at VS2 and much more at the SI level.

The BN stone is not as well cut as the B2C stone, and I can tell that looking at the image as well as the numbers. With a 34 crown angle, you want closer to a 40.9 pavilion angle. A 35 crown angle works better with a 40.6 pav angle. I have no allegiance to B2C whatsoever, but as you said earlier, it takes some effort to find top cut stones in virtual inventories. I was just lucky and looked at B2C because I know they have some of the best prices.

 

[TheLady]

I'm not sure which diamond to go for. So similar, but I do like the price difference. Does .5 make that much of a difference in the crown? Still waiting on the images from B2C. I'm not very excited about any of their settings. If I took the stone to a local jeweler to have it set that would probably make the cost of both stones about equal. Do local Jewelers even want to set a stone for you?

 

[sledge]

Does JA have a setting you like?

Have you asked B2C if they would set the stone in a JA setting if you purchased just the setting from JA? I'd expect a $100-200 charge for the service.

 

[TheLady]

Does JA have a setting you like?

Have you asked B2C if they would set the stone in a JA setting if you purchased just the setting from JA? I'd expect a $100-200 charge for the service.

I'm not sure you can just buy a setting from JA.

 

[sledge]

I'm not sure you can just buy a setting from JA.

Depending on the setting, you may have to send the stone to JA for ordering & setting. But it is possible to just buy a setting only without a diamond.

Edited to Add:
Obviously I would encourage you to buy & set with B2C if possible. It saves time & headache. Also, if B2C agrees to set, you need to clarify if they will also take responsibility for any damage to their diamond during the setting process.

Frequently Asked Questions | JamesAllen.com

James Allen's Frequently Asked Questions - about us, our products, payments, insurance, return policy, shipping, and more.

www.jamesallen.com

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

I've not worked with them either, but have heard good reviews about them. I believe the owner is Brian Pollard (@Diamond_Hawk), who I am assuming is brothers with @John Pollard (US director for CBI) but I could be mistaken.

Brian does participate on the board from time to time, although I don't see lots of posts from him.

Also, in threads of other people using B2C, I thought I've seen them offer a full array of performance & symmetry images (ASET, IS, H&A) along with detailed SARIN reports, similar to what IDJ does.

Thank you for the mention, @sledge - I work for B2CJewels as Director of Consumer Education, but I am not the owner. I do monitor PriceScope activity and represent B2C on the forum. If I can be any help or answer questions about our product, I am always happy to jump in!

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Brian Pollard is indeed John's brother, but he is not the owner of B2C. I think he helps train their staff and also is the online presence here. Both of them are really nice guys! B2C is a long time PS vendor and I can't recall hearing anything negative about them.

@TheLady

Faint fluorescence is a non-issue. VS1 and higher clarity are clean and have no concerns. You have to start being cautious at VS2 and much more at the SI level.

The BN stone is not as well cut as the B2C stone, and I can tell that looking at the image as well as the numbers. With a 34 crown angle, you want closer to a 40.9 pavilion angle. A 35 crown angle works better with a 40.6 pav angle. I have no allegiance to B2C whatsoever, but as you said earlier, it takes some effort to find top cut stones in virtual inventories. I was just lucky and looked at B2C because I know they have some of the best prices.

^^Thank you!