What is the pros of buying SI1 over SI2?

[oceanbeach]

Assuming both are eye-clean, I''m wondering what is the pros of buying SI1 stone over SI2... durability?! etc??
Any thoughts on this?!

 

[Mara]

None.

No really...there are no pros as long as the inclusions don''t reach the surface...I would hands down take an SI2 over an SI1 if both were eye clean and the inclusions didn''t reach the girdle surface.

 

[oceanbeach]

Hi Mara,

Thanks! That''s what I was thinking...

By the way, do you know if vendors like GOG and WF can tell me if any of inclusions in a stone reach its surface? I''m pretty much sure GOG can do, but not sure about WF.

 

[Mara]

yep any vendor would be able to tell you about inclusions in an in-house stone. if they can view it they can tell you more about the inclusions.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Inclusions bother me, so I''d always choose an SI1 over an SI2. On occasion, I look at my diamond with a loupe and I want the inclusions to be very minor under 10x magnification. So for me it is a "mind-clean" issue, and I am willing to pay for it (and I am looking at VS for that reason).

 

[Mara]

It''s important to note that some SI2''s are eye-clean to the casual observer under a 10x loupe even. My old stone was like this. I could only find one absolutely tiny little pinpoint of black under a 10x loupe. It was FAB. If you get lucky and find a great SI2...I would totally snap it up.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Well, there is a difference between SI1 and SI2 - otherwise there wouldn''t be two grade distinctions. The number of inclusions in an SI1 should be less and an SI1 will of course cost more and be worth more.

That said, we have seen many nice SI2''s on this forum that truly are eye clean. That makes them an excellent value for the money. Some people would consider nothing else - they would rather put their diamond dollars on other factors such as cut, color or size.

 

[Mara]

Of course there *should* be a difference between clarity grades (just like color).

But grading is done by humans. One person having a bad day gives an SI1 stone graded any other day an SI2 grade. That is going to be an exceptional deal for the person who buys it. On the same token, someone may give an SI1 stone an VS2 grade. This is why sometimes we see people on here who freak out when they can see something in their VS2. Nothing is guaranteed by just the clarity grade. That''s why I am always looking for the SI1 or SI2 that should have been a VS2 or SI1.

 

[salmon]

Ditto Mara,

Great advice!

Put your money into getting a better cut and perhaps color. If you get a great cut, it will hide inclusion even more. If you have the time and patience, you can try to seek an SI2 with inclusions that can be hidden by your prongs. I don''t know what settings you''re looking at, but it''s definetely an option IMHO.

 

[Small]

Date: 5/24/2006 12:15:03 AM
Author: salmon
Ditto Mara,

Great advice!

Put your money into getting a better cut and perhaps color. If you get a great cut, it will hide inclusion even more. If you have the time and patience, you can try to seek an SI2 with inclusions that can be hidden by your prongs. I don''t know what settings you''re looking at, but it''s definetely an option IMHO.

Mara reflects my sentiments exactly. I was just having a conversation with Wink yesterday regarding the value of and SI or even an I1 diamond. My RB has a feather that is visible from side view only and it actually gives me great peace of mind. I know where it is and if I ever take my diamond in for anything I would know immediately if someone did some sort of switch. It doesn''t bother me in the least. The only thing that would bother me is black inclusions that can be seen. I couldn''t live with that. But in my opinion...why pay more for what you can''t see? My feather is also hidden by a prong so I can''t see it anyway. I loupe the diamond and can see the inclusions and am not bothered in the least...I mean I''m not giving the loupe to anyone to inspect my diamond and no one is holding the diamond up to their face looking for inclusions so I guess it really comes down to what''s in your mind. For a beautiful, well cut sparkler I can definitely live with knowing their are inclusions that I can see with 10x loupe.

 

[oceanbeach]

Date: 5/23/2006 6:38:27 PM
Author: Mara
yep any vendor would be able to tell you about inclusions in an in-house stone. if they can view it they can tell you more about the inclusions.

Mara, thank you!

...and everyone, thanks for great advise!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/23/2006 7:19:40 PM
Author: Mara
Of course there *should* be a difference between clarity grades (just like color).

But grading is done by humans. One person having a bad day gives an SI1 stone graded any other day an SI2 grade.

It''s really important to emphasize this point Mara just made above. When I was shopping, Brian compared an SI1 and an SI2 stone. Both were the same color; both exceptionally well cut. I was set on going no longer than SI1, but Brian looked at both stones and said "well, to me, the SI2 looks cleaner than the SI1. If I had been grading these stones, the clarity grades would be reversed." The SI1 stone had dark inclusions nearer to an under the table of the stone. The SI2 stone has white wispy inclusions and pinpoints that weren''t as prominent.

I''m no idiot....I took the SI2 and got a full quarter-carat more stone for the same $$.

My appraiser confirmed that he considered it a top, top SI2....borderline SI1.

Date: 5/23/2006 7:07 PM
Author: MissGotRocks

The number of inclusions in an SI1 should be less and an SI1 will of course cost more and be worth more.

Not necessarily. Clarity grading depends on much more than just *quantity* of inclusions.

You could have a stone with only one inclusion, but it''s a dark, big old honker smack in the middle of the stone. That stone would likely rank lower than a stone with 3-4 veeeeeeery tiny inclusions placed off the sides.

It''s about more than quantity. It also considers character, nature, placement AND quantity...and it''s not an exact science. It''s a subjective opinion..... very knowledgable experts can disagree even within grading labs.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree that it is always good to get a stone that is borderline higher grade! I am looking to do the same with color...get a high H or high G. Some vendors like Jonathan at GOG can check that, too! He has a high H that I am interested in, although the clarity is higher than I want to pay for. It''s hard to find a diamond with EVERY qualification you want!!!

 

[lizz]

I would pick the SI2 too any day over the SI1 if both are eye clean because it will be a lower price. I have an SI2 stone, and it only has 3 twining wisps. They are visible under 30x magnification, but not to the naked eye. Completely eye clean.

 

[oceanbeach]

Date: 5/24/2006 10:22:07 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I agree that it is always good to get a stone that is borderline higher grade! I am looking to do the same with color...get a high H or high G. Some vendors like Jonathan at GOG can check that, too! He has a high H that I am interested in, although the clarity is higher than I want to pay for. It''s hard to find a diamond with EVERY qualification you want!!!

I know what you mean! I know it will be very hard for me to find every qualification I''m looking for too!! good luck.

 

[togal]

I was very prejudice against SI stones.....until I came to this forum, that is. Before PS, I thought SI stones were really inferior....seriously....I thought it would be embarrassing to have an SI stone. Once I got over the preceived stigma, I realized....why pay for something no one can see? As a result, I was able to get an F colored, well cut, beautiful stone for a very good price. I will look for SI stones for my future upgrade too.....did I just say future upgrade?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 5/24/2006 10:11:23 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 5/23/2006 7:19:40 PM
Author: Mara
Of course there *should* be a difference between clarity grades (just like color).

But grading is done by humans. One person having a bad day gives an SI1 stone graded any other day an SI2 grade.

It''s really important to emphasize this point Mara just made above. When I was shopping, Brian compared an SI1 and an SI2 stone. Both were the same color; both exceptionally well cut. I was set on going no longer than SI1, but Brian looked at both stones and said ''well, to me, the SI2 looks cleaner than the SI1. If I had been grading these stones, the clarity grades would be reversed.'' The SI1 stone had dark inclusions nearer to an under the table of the stone. The SI2 stone has white wispy inclusions and pinpoints that weren''t as prominent.

I''m no idiot....I took the SI2 and got a full quarter-carat more stone for the same $$.

My appraiser confirmed that he considered it a top, top SI2....borderline SI1.

Date: 5/23/2006 7:07 PM
Author: MissGotRocks

The number of inclusions in an SI1 should be less and an SI1 will of course cost more and be worth more.

Not necessarily. Clarity grading depends on much more than just *quantity* of inclusions.

You could have a stone with only one inclusion, but it''s a dark, big old honker smack in the middle of the stone. That stone would likely rank lower than a stone with 3-4 veeeeeeery tiny inclusions placed off the sides.

It''s about more than quantity. It also considers character, nature, placement AND quantity...and it''s not an exact science. It''s a subjective opinion..... very knowledgable experts can disagree even within grading labs.

I have a friend with a stone just like that. It''s a large black carbon spot near the side - you have to turn the stone ever so slightly to see it but it''s there - very visible to the eye from a face up position - and it is graded VS2 - supposedly because there is only one major inclusion. I suppose it would have made a major difference had the inclusion been in the table area but I just don''t think about a VS stone having a very visible black carbon spot.

I realize that the different grades are dependent upon many factors - and that it is in fact done by humans. However, I do think there are guidelines that graders do consider when grading a stone. I have an SI1 and love the fact that the table is free of major inclusions. Not necessary but important to me somehow - the mind clean thing I suppose.

But in a general sense, I would like to think that the pro of buying an SI1 stone over an SI2 stone is that you would have a cleaner stone. Not always true I know - and I certainly wouldn''t be opposed to an SI2 stone if the inclusions were not troublesome to me. Years ago, I had another SI1 stone that had a feather under the table. You absolutely could not see it without magnification but I knew it was there and was forever looking for it. Again, that mind clean thing. In that respect a VVS1 or IF would probably be a great stone for someone like me but I truly am not interested in paying $$ for it. For several reasons I would be hesitant to trade my stone at this point; a major reason for it is the ''cleanliness'' of it. I just don''t look for what I know isn''t there.

 

[pebbles]

I personally would buy an eye clean SI2 stone in a heartbeat. Some people may think an SI2 is worse than an SI1 but we know that isn''t the case. These people may be more into the "mind clean" idea, but then, they most likely won''t be buying SI stones anyway.

 

[kenny]

I3 diamonds get sold too.
That means they are right for that buyer.

Buy what YOU are comfortable with.
My comfort zone doesn't apply to you.

 

[Mara]

that's true pebbles, someone considering an SI1 or SI2 then typically would be aware that there are going to be inclusions in there, maybe some visible ones depending on grading and it typically wouldn't be as big of a deal as someone considering a VS and being shocked upon seeing something.

there have even been some amazing I1's on here that seemingly should have been graded SI2's or similar, and i would love to find a great one for a pendant someday. a K I1 H&A? mmmm mmmm good!

 

[Small]

Date: 5/25/2006 12:49:23 PM
Author: Mara
that''s true pebbles, someone considering an SI1 or SI2 then typically would be aware that there are going to be inclusions in there, maybe some visible ones depending on grading and it typically wouldn''t be as big of a deal as someone considering a VS and being shocked upon seeing something.

there have even been some amazing I1''s on here that seemingly should have been graded SI2''s or similar, and i would love to find a great one for a pendant someday. a K I1 H&A? mmmm mmmm good!

Wink just had a couple of I1s on here not long ago. I actually contacted him about one (LOL haven''t had my diamond a couple of months and already thinking upgrade LOL)...it was an I I1 1.23 Infinity with a white feather and eye cleanish but I decided to hold off. Great great price...had I seen it before mine I probably would have went for it instead however I''m attached to mine albeit .92 it''s stunning and I''m not ready to part with it yet. But I''m with you...I''d take a look at any I1s or SIs from a trusted vendor...why not if you can get a great diamond for a great price???