What is the gain?

[Tobamovirus]

So after reading your advices I went to my retailers to upgrade my stone to GIA ex.cut (and finally be able to sleep calmly at night).
But... Surprisingly, manager insisted that my stone is perfect, so there is any need to replace it - though it will be not them paying for upgrade, but I). He gave me (to compare my stone with) exellent cut stones, D-Fl stones - just trying to prove me that the problem is not in the stone, but in the setting. Is it right? I thought, that for perfecty cutted stone there is no difference, will it be prongs setting or bezel, the stone will always be shiny and full of sparkles.

Now I am really confused, and all my trust to them is under big question.
Why salesman didn't want to sell me the new diamond?

The problem lays in that the stone is not sparkly enough (for my inexperienced eye) and the area (pink on the picture) is always milky and dull. Is "bezel effect" really exists?

 

[tyty333]

Can you post the report? GIA/AGS etc.

 

[yssie]

I looked through your old thread and can't make out any of the details of the faceting - are you able to take (or have someone take) some clear close-ups?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-my-diamond-dull.204820/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-my-diamond-dull.204820/[/URL]

Yes, a well-cut stone will sparkle noticeably more than a poorly-cut stone in most lights. There is, however, a lot of in-between, and many flavours of well-cut, not-perfect-but-decently-cut, etc.

The fact that your complaints are mostly about haze/dullness under the crown - bezels, upper halves - and not darkness/transparency under the table suggests to me that your diamond may well be suffering due to the bezel (assuming your ring is spotlessly clean!). Your bezel is thick and the walls do look to rise above the plane of the diamond surface quite a bit. Bezels are unforgiving in general - a well-cut diamond won't suffer in any practical way, but bezels are much harder on poorly-cut and not-perfectly-but-decently-cut stones than prongs.

Here is an old thread with more discussion on the effects of bezels on light return: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-a-bezel-setting-change-and-or-decrease-light-return.146618/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-a-bezel-setting-change-and-or-decrease-light-return.146618/[/URL]

The short version from one of our tradesmen:

It is very easy to test this yourself,,, take a bit of dark cardstock and cut it so it fits around the diamond.... vola removable bezel
There is for all practical purposes no difference face up in a well cut round.

From about a 30 degree angle there is a bit of difference if the diamond has a low crown height.
A 60/60 with a low crown will be much more effected than a fic even if they are equally well cut.
This comes from the bezel blocking light entering the upper girdles mostly.
The small upper girdles on a low crown height stone are effected more because a larger percentage is blocked.

Of course, without more information about your stone, we're just guessing based on your descriptions of what you're seeing - the bezel may be part of the problem and poor cut may be another part - which obviously a reset won't fix!

 

[yssie]

ETA: Your ring:

 

[Tobamovirus]

Can you post the report? GIA/AGS etc.

The thing is I don't have a sertificate.. The jewelers cut their own stones and sell them. Due to their passport I have H VG VS2, but due to local topics related to israeli diamond business I really think we can not relate on that document.
Salesman asked if I want to send my stone to GIA lab to prove the stats, and sayed that with 80% probability we will see even higher stats in official document. It is all so strange - I feel that they are decieving me, but it is all so strange...
Would not it be easier just to sell me a GIA stone? Why he insisted on keeping my diamond?

 

[Tobamovirus]

I would like to post some photos, but nor a phone, nor a DSLR camera are unable to focus on such a small object.
Give me 10 minutes, I will look through the photos..

 

[drk14]

I would like to post some photos, but nor a phone, nor a DSLR camera are unable to focus on such a small object.
Give me 10 minutes, I will look through the photos..

For tips on how to get a camera to focus on a diamond (which can be very tricky), please refer to this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/

 

[Tobamovirus]

...that's all I have

 

[Tobamovirus]

Thank you, but I have been there. My phone does not have macromode, and DSLR with 50mm objective also focuses from big distance..

 

[yssie]

Small table outline (red arrow), gigantic table reflection (green) - this stone's pavilion is very, very steep. Result is a ring of darkness ("leakage") under the table - light entering the stone from above is escaping out the back of the stone rather than being reflected back to your eyes.

The bezel walls are also very steep (yellow) - this means light can't enter the stone from the sides, either. I see the "haze" you're talking about in the finger pic... in the pic below you can see "rings" in the stone, almost, at the edges where stone meets girdle (blue) - Is the stone *spotlessly* clean in this photo? If so they must be reflections of the high bezel walls. The "haze" could be more reflections, inclusions, persistent grime - especially on the underside...

Spend some time on that thread I linked earlier, it will be informative.

 

[Tobamovirus]

Thank you for so detailed description..
And yes, the stone was right after the cleaning on those pictures.

So am I right - my stone is definitely not as good as salesman described?
Good cut or even Fair?...

 

[yssie]

Well, I don't know what the salesman said, but whatever else may or may not be wrong with your stone in terms of inclusions, etc. it's certainly not what the PS collective would consider "well-cut". You already have the desire to upgrade your stone to a GIA EX, so if you have the means to fulfill that desire then I see no reason not to indulge it.

Light return from a well-cut stone will definitely be less affected by setting style. The bezel will, however, have to be remade for the new stone - you won't be able to re-use it as you would a prong head, so that's something else to factor into the cost.

 

[HopeDream]

I have a very small bezeled stone, and I find that it's impossible to fully clean the edges around the underside of the bezel without soaking it in hot water and dish soap and then putting it in my ultrasonic cleaner for about 6-10 min. The lower bezel edges underneath the stone seem to attract greasy gunk, that is very hard to reach, and that gunk will dull the outer edges of your stone even if the center of the pavilion appears clean.

I'd recommend having your stone deep-cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner, and then looking for the "bezel effect". If you don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, most jewellery stores do and should clean your ring for free.

If you have a well cut stone there should be no difference between prong setting or bezel setting.

I've heard that GIA excellent doesn't always mean perfect performance. Double check your stone's angles (from the GIA report) with the HCA https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca, if that comes back with a score below 2, then your stone is probably just fine.

 

[Karl_K]

That's not a bezel that's a pit.
Do you have a side view?
It is hard to tell the cut quality from the pics but I agree that there are signs that all is not well with it.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

If I understand correctly, this is the summary:

You are not happy with the ring, because of the diamond being dull over a big part of its surface.
Retailer says it is due to the setting, not the diamond

Well, let him fix the setting then, since it is most probably either his work or his sale. And then, you can see whether it truly is not the diamond. And if that proves it is also due to the diamond, I think you have ground to complain about them trying to sell you underperforming diamond.

Live long,

 

[Tobamovirus]

It sounds very logical!
And I would love to follow your advise, but as far as resetting will cost me a serious amount, I rather will spend those money for upgrading the stone.

I feel that I chose the wrong jeweller. Or I expect way more than my wallet can provide me

 

[Tobamovirus]

That's not a bezel that's a pit.
Do you have a side view?

A pit?

Just this photo, hope it helps:




The same idea like here:

 

[Karl_K]

That's not a bezel that's a pit.
Do you have a side view?

A pit?

Just this photo, hope it helps:

Yes a pit, the diamond is extremely deep in the setting.
It looks like the top of the setting is up almost level with the crown.
That will effect any diamond, however it will be much worse with a less well cut diamond.