What is consumers awareness of Natural vs. Synthetic diamonds.

[pricescope]

#4. What is consumers current awareness of Natural vs. synthetic diamonds. (What is synthetic diamond? How much is it worth comparing to the natural counterpart? Can it have as much sentimental value?)

If I remember correctly, many girls say they would love to be able to buy cheap diamond for themselves, but would kill any guy who bought them one or worse still - tried to pass a synthetic off as a real diamond.


Previous discussions:Wired on Synthetic Diamonds
Another review of the Wired CVD synthetic article

synthetic diamonds vs natural diamonds????


Also: Thoughts from the President: Gem Synthetic Diamond : "I hope that the media reports on synthetic diamonds mention the fact that the major laboratories can conclusively identify gem synthetic diamonds, that most of the material produced is still small and yellow in color, and that the sum of all commercially produced gem synthetic diamonds is but a minute portion of the entire worldwide diamond market."

 

[cflutist]

I am going to guess that most consumers (other than those on PS) think that a synthetic is the same as a simulant when they are very different. A synthetic diamond is man made but has the same chemical composition, crystal structure, physical and optical properties as the natural gem. A simulant e.g. CZ and Moissanite do not.

Chatham has been producing pink, yellow and blue synthethic diamonds (and they are not cheap - 1ct pinks or blues can be $6999 - 9600 based on the clarity) but I would like to know who is commerically producing colorless synthetic diamonds.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/30/2005 9:17:27 AM
Author: cflutist
I would like to know who is commerically producing colorless synthetic diamonds.

No one. I thing both producers just gave up and turned to color (blue and pink, namely).

Same for color enhancement... Any news about HPHT ? Are these still made at all ?

 

[robbe]

consumers are grown up people who can decide by themselves whether or not they want to purchase synthetic, man-made, lab-grown or whatever the hell you want to call it -diamonds...provided they know!
the problem is that producers of synthetic diamonds are not always playing it straight-up.
either they want to call it ''cultured diamonds'' or in some cases they try to go underground.

the real issue is rarity.

natural diamonds are rare, this is the beauty of it. they were created by nature and fashionned by men.
it is the ultimate expression of love, passion & romance.
synthetic diamonds are nowhere near that inspite of the fact that some of them really look nice.
cultured pearls for example are much closer to natural pearls, compared to synthetic diamonds vs natural diamonds.
one should call it what it is and what it is not.

to leonid''s question "How much is it worth comparing to the natural counterpart?"
much much much less, buy it eventually but know what it is you''re buying (and what it is you are not buying!).

"Can it have as much sentimental value?" no mystique, no rarity factor, no history, a cloned diamond cannot have an equivalent sentimental value, is my opinion.

robbe

 

[lizzyd]

Current awareness: they can''t make ''em in the size and color in which I want to wear them.

Even if they could, to me it''s kind of like the difference between a real Baum and Mercier watch thast costs $4,500 and a $10 knock off I can get on the street corner. It would never mean as much to me as the real thing.

 

[dhorn]

Well as a recent first time purchaser I was very interested in synthetic, cultured, whatever you want to call them, diamonds. I asked my fiance and numerous female friends and all stated that if they could get a diamond that was bigger and just as nice for the same cost then it is retarded to not just because it didn''t come out of the ground. Unfortunately Apollo doesn''t seem to be able or ready to distribute colorless diamonds yet. If they start, and you can''t tell them apart without a lab report, natural diamond prices should fall. I''m sure debeers will come up with marketing for why natural is better and lots of sheep will follow, but many people could care less as long as it is really a diamond.

 

[dhorn]

Date: 3/30/2005 11

7:27 AM
Author: lizzyd
Current awareness: they can''t make ''em in the size and color in which I want to wear them.

Even if they could, to me it''s kind of like the difference between a real Baum and Mercier watch thast costs $4,500 and a $10 knock off I can get on the street corner. It would never mean as much to me as the real thing.

Is that because of the quality of the product or the name/price tag?

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/30/2005 10

4:38 AM
Author: robbe

consumers are grown up people who can decide by themselves whether or not they want to purchase synthetic, man-made, lab-grown or whatever the hell you want to call it -diamonds...provided they know!
the problem is that producers of synthetic diamonds are not always playing it straight-up.
either they want to call it ''cultured diamonds'' or in some cases they try to go underground.

the real issue is rarity.

natural diamonds are rare, this is the beauty of it. they were created by nature and fashionned by men.
it is the ultimate expression of love, passion & romance.
synthetic diamonds are nowhere near that inspite of the fact that some of them really look nice.
cultured pearls for example are much closer to natural pearls, compared to synthetic diamonds vs natural diamonds.
one should call it what it is and what it is not.

to leonid''s question ''How much is it worth comparing to the natural counterpart?''
much much much less, buy it eventually but know what it is you''re buying (and what it is you are not buying!).

''Can it have as much sentimental value?'' no mystique, no rarity factor, no history, a cloned diamond cannot have an equivalent sentimental value, is my opinion.

robbe

Yep - Ditto

I have no problem with natural vs man made as long as people are educated and informed about it. Make your choice and decide what you are willing to pay for it.
But let me take it much further – A gem (not just diamonds) is either natural and untouched by man (other than cut) - or it is man made. I find the line between lab grown, lab made,, heavily treated/altered, what ever, to be a blur these days. In general I see little difference in these methods- it is all man made to me. But I am in the minority on that opinion. It is just that people need to be informed. I wish terms like “natural” were more narrowly defined and strictly regulated for all gems. As technology progresses I think this will be more and more difficult for consumers to understand these differences.

 

[lizzyd]

Date: 3/30/2005 11:35

9 AM
Author: dhorn

Date: 3/30/2005 11

7:27 AM
Author: lizzyd
Current awareness: they can''t make ''em in the size and color in which I want to wear them.

Even if they could, to me it''s kind of like the difference between a real Baum and Mercier watch thast costs $4,500 and a $10 knock off I can get on the street corner. It would never mean as much to me as the real thing.

Is that because of the quality of the product or the name/price tag?

Both I guess. The name/price tag guarantees me a level of quality that the $10 knockoff can''t. But it''s also about the rarity, the exclisivity, the panache, the sparkle (ok, so I''m shallow

). If everybody could walk around with a three carat honker would mine mean as much to me, would I still think of diamonds in the same way? Would the thought of them still make my heart go pitter-pat and make me a little breathless? Maybe not. My feelings of sentiment and what the ring meant when my dh gave it to me aside. It would still be as pretty, but it might not necessarily hold the same fascination for me. Does that make sense?

I''ve worn a CZ during a different time in my life. When it was brand new, nobody could tell the difference (only a jewler with a loupe). But I knew, and it bothered me no end.

 

[nosatisfaction]

Personally, it might not matter to buy a synthetic diamond for some jewelry you might wear for fashion - I have a lot of cheap jewelry and I don''t care. But it would matter if it were an engagement ring, wedding band or eternity ring. There is no substitute for the real deal. It''s like trying to pass off that your got a big rock, but it''s not really.

 

[moremoremore]

Speaking for myself, I value a synthetic diamond as much as a natural. A diamond is a diamond to me. I don''t care where it comes from.

I also believe that colorless synthetics will never enter the marketplace.

 

[strmrdr]

What is synthetic diamond? - A diamond identical to a natural diamond but made in a lab.

How much is it worth comparing to the natural counterpart? Id say 50% discount would be enough to make them move in todays market.


Can it have as much sentimental value? - someone who puts a price tag on sentimental value is pretty shallow.
I have some things that I paid nothing for that I wouldnt trade for a million dollars.

 

[oldminer]

If inexpensive synthetic diamonds in coloress, small sizes ever become available at prices low enough to truly compete with the H/J I1-I2 mass market junk that is around, and have G/H color and are SI1 or better clarity, they will kill the lowest end of the small diamond business. People who buy these low end small diamonds set in jewelry are not experts nor do they generally care a lot about what they are buying. They are cruising for a "look" at a "price", and they have a budget. Besides that, these people far outnumber affluent buyers.

If the CVD process comes on strong, we''ll see some movement in that direction. It may be quite a while before coloress diamonds are mass produced. There really is no rarity to the volume end of quality as things exist today.

 

[Mara]

I would not be interested in a synthetic diamond, lab grown, however you want to spin it...especially not at the prices they are throwing around right now. The cost would have to be around CZ level to consider it but even then...I really prefer the old ''real'' ones...that may change in the future, who really knows..but I am not in the market for a synthetic or anything other than mined for the time being.

As far as I can recall having heard/seen online here...the lab-grown colorless diamonds are not ready yet, who knows when they will be, fancy yellows and similar are already on the market.

 

[velouriaL]

I am not really in the market for diamonds (except as sidestones), but I have to say that recently, I talked with someone from Chatham about synthetic emeralds.

You know, they''re making emeralds with inclusions! Just like the real thing! That is so awesome, to me...

The other thing that really impressed me was that Chatham emeralds have a lifetime warranty, even against cracks and chips, which makes me feel a lot safer about going for the notoriously brittle gem for an everyday piece.

Any emerald that starts off life looking like this:

...seems pretty darn close to the *real* thing to me.

Part of me, actaully, is really amazed at the wonders humans can do... That''s one of the reason fake gems are found so frequently in antique jewelery-- in the first part of the 20th century, people were all a-twitter over progress and science.

But do I really want a man-made gem, even if it''s EXACTLY (or almsot) like the real thing? Well... I dunno...

 

[Dancing Fire]

there is no way i would buy or wear a synthetic diamond fake is fake

LV hand bag ,Rolex watch,boobs.

there is a lady that i know had all teh above,nothing on her was REAL.

 

[jasper]

What is a synthetic diamond? A diamond.

What is a so-called "natural" diamond? A defective diamond.

How much is a synthetic diamond worth? I would gladly pay $ 3 for a 3 carat synthetic diamond that is the color of a well-done cake. (That was the wholesale price 5 years ago for long, thin, CVD industrial grade diamonds.)

Compare the prices of synthetic and "natural" diamonds. I expect the price of gem-grade synthetic diamonds to drop drastically over time. I expect the price of mined diamonds to be much more stable than the price of synthetic diamonds.

How much are you willing to pay for synthetic gems? Either the lowest price available for excellently cut eye-clean stones, or double the cost of the setting, whichever is less. That way, when the price of the synthetic gem has dropped, the jewelry still retains some of its original value.

How much are you willing to pay for so-called "natural" gems?

It depends on the purpose of the jewelry. I have already bought my fiancée's engagement ring, complete with an excellently cut eye-clean diamond that I expect will hold its value. I shopped on-line, and at Seattle area jewellers: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/seattle-area-jewellers.18415/

Any other jewelry that I buy for her will be pretty gifts -- what she considers "frills". I am willing to pay a 20% premium for "natural" gems over what I would be willing to pay for synthetic gems, just because the "natural" gems are likelier to hold their value. But I would only be willing to buy the "natural" gem if it matches the synthetic gem's cut, clarity, and color. (And of course, cleanliness and size.)

Can synthetic gems have as much sentimental value? Yes. I can find out the complete provenence of a synthetic gem, including who made it, and where they made it. It is easier to trust the ethics of the synthetic gem's craftsmen. Furthermore, most of the sentimental value of the gem has to do with what it is used for, and what memories are attached to those uses. Those memories probably do not depend on whether the stone was carefully made, or extracted from a slurry.

Might you change your mind? Of course, especially after Marie gets a chance to compare specific gems.

 

[tanuki]

I wouldn''t want to have a non natural diamond for a ring with sentimental value (an engagement or anniversary ring).

I would consider a synthetic for a right hand ring or just to wear as a fashion statement. Which means the colored ones being manufactured are more interesting to me than the goal of finding one in white.

I have looked at the websites for the companies selling the synthetics just to see what was offered. The orangey yellow doesn''t appeal to me but I would be very interested in pink or blue if they could get the price a little lower and the stones a little bigger. I haven''t actually seen one so I have to take that into account. But in my mind they are "almost there" for my needs as a consumer.

If I was thinking about manufactured diamonds in colors (not white) and could get a nice looking ring or pendant or bracelet for a bargain price (which means less than one half the cost of real) that would have good wear and tear and all the other characteristics of a diamond except not being "natural" I would probably be in the market. Just because I expect better wear and tear over time.

I also wouldn''t mind them in settings (for example used for pave) if it lowered the cost of the setting and gave me more to spend to get a bigger natural stone in the center. No one is going to ask ''Is that pave made from natural diamonds?". It''s not that big a deal - the focus is on the center stone.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 3/30/2005 3

3

7 PM
Author: oldminer
If inexpensive synthetic diamonds in coloress, small sizes ever become available at prices low enough to truly compete with the H/J I1-I2 mass market junk that is around, and have G/H color and are SI1 or better clarity, they will kill the lowest end of the small diamond business. People who buy these low end small diamonds set in jewelry are not experts nor do they generally care a lot about what they are buying. They are cruising for a ''look'' at a ''price'', and they have a budget. Besides that, these people far outnumber affluent buyers.

If the CVD process comes on strong, we''ll see some movement in that direction. It may be quite a while before coloress diamonds are mass produced. There really is no rarity to the volume end of quality as things exist today.

Dave,

I’m not so sure I agree. Synthetic rubies, sapphires and emeralds (and several other gemstones) have been available for quite a while and it has not had this effect. Mudball sapphires are still pretty popular despite the fact that far better looking synthetics are readily available for less money. Some customers, actually most customers, seem to prefer a stone that’s promoted as ‘natural’. They even seem to prefer stones where decidedly unnatural treatments have been performed on the way to the market over flat out synthetics.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[valeria101]

I don't think the price of cultured anything can be sustained for long. So the perception of "value" is not great... It may be that for a short time the production can be controlled and prices promoted, but this image of industrial fabrication (same as any widget!) persists and I wonder how it will be addressed. The immage of a pearl farm and the little animals involved seemed to have been enough to keep the mistique alive. How about diamonds ? Perhaps build the respective lab in an abandoned mine pit

All in all, it'a "product" without much purpose yet. Lab made gems have this serious identity crysis. Diamonds are no exception in my mind.

Somewhat related...
The idea to price these things relative to the cost of settings (that "twice" sounds good already) might just be a stryke of genius.