What is a fair price for this ring?

[mrob13]

I''m new to the forum (this is wild btw..haha) and typically like to do a lot of research before I make a major purchase. I''ve been connected with someone that comes highly recommended and are friends of my family, but want to ensure I''m receiving a fair price and a quality stone. I want to be happy, but more importantly, I want my future fiancé to be happy! She found the following stone for me and I want to gather some thoughts about it''s value and quality. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Also, I haven''t seen the stone yet, but will probably do that early next week.

carat weight: 1.4ct
color grade: I
clarity grade and the grade making inclusions on the clarity plot such as feather, needle, clouds, crystals etc.: SI2
depth %: 63%
table%: 63%
crown and pavilion angles: don''t know
girdle thickness: thick and faceted
polish and symmetry grades: good/good
diameter measurement: don''t know
lower girdle percent if available: don''t know
star percent if available: don''t know
fluorescence if applicable: faint
type of lab grading: not certified

 

[D&T]

maybe you can ask the mods to move this over to Rocky talk.. but one concern I would have is that its not certed and you have a lot of don''t knows is this a round diamond? your table looks too large and you''re bordering on the depth, I''d be nervous with this one theres alot of missing information. Don''t just go by size alone

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/19/2009 2:07:09 PM
Author:mrob13
I'm new to the forum (this is wild btw..haha) and typically like to do a lot of research before I make a major purchase. I've been connected with someone that comes highly recommended and are friends of my family, but want to ensure I'm receiving a fair price and a quality stone. I want to be happy, but more importantly, I want my future fiancé to be happy! She found the following stone for me and I want to gather some thoughts about it's value and quality. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Also, I haven't seen the stone yet, but will probably do that early next week.

carat weight: 1.4ct
color grade: I
clarity grade and the grade making inclusions on the clarity plot such as feather, needle, clouds, crystals etc.: SI2
depth %: 63%
table%: 63%
crown and pavilion angles: don't know
girdle thickness: thick and faceted
polish and symmetry grades: good/good
diameter measurement: don't know
lower girdle percent if available: don't know
star percent if available: don't know
fluorescence if applicable: faint
type of lab grading: not certified

Welcome!

From the info given the diamond does not appear to be well cut, we need the crown and pavilion angles to make a more accurate judgement but the diamond is deep with a large table. Also have you considered any diamonds with a GIA report or AGS? You can do better than this diamond, what you could do is ask her to show you some AGS0 or GIA Excellent cut grade, that should narrow the field for better cut stones.

It is cut which gives a diamond its beauty, so although you don't always need a perfect cut, the proportions and finish of the diamond are very important in order for you to have a pretty stone.

What is your budget for the diamond? It isn't really possible for us to give you a rough price for this stone as it does not have a reliable lab grade, it might not in reality be I colour and SI2 clarity.

 

[mrob13]

to do that, do i simply message the admin and request it? also, how common are certified diamonds and who has access to them, i.e. wholesalers, brokers, retailers, etc. i''ve heard that a stone such as the one described tend to be better than what you''d see in a retail store, but haven''t found verifiable proof of that assertion. your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:30:34 PM
Author: mrob13
to do that, do i simply message the admin and request it? also, how common are certified diamonds and who has access to them, i.e. wholesalers, brokers, retailers, etc. i've heard that a stone such as the one described tend to be better than what you'd see in a retail store, but haven't found verifiable proof of that assertion. your thoughts are appreciated.

I have already asked admin to move it for you so don't worry!

Lab graded diamonds ( GIA and AGS are the top 2 labs) are usually found in jewellery stores and with online vendors. If you mean that the diamond you have been offered is better than what you would find in a retail store then no this isn't actually the case. It does not have a reliable lab report, is not well cut from what I can tell and we don't know the price.

How much are they asking for this diamond?

 

[mrob13]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:12:56 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/19/2009 2:07:09 PM
Author:mrob13
I''m new to the forum (this is wild btw..haha) and typically like to do a lot of research before I make a major purchase. I''ve been connected with someone that comes highly recommended and are friends of my family, but want to ensure I''m receiving a fair price and a quality stone. I want to be happy, but more importantly, I want my future fiancé to be happy! She found the following stone for me and I want to gather some thoughts about it''s value and quality. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Also, I haven''t seen the stone yet, but will probably do that early next week.

carat weight: 1.4ct
color grade: I
clarity grade and the grade making inclusions on the clarity plot such as feather, needle, clouds, crystals etc.: SI2
depth %: 63%
table%: 63%
crown and pavilion angles: don''t know
girdle thickness: thick and faceted
polish and symmetry grades: good/good
diameter measurement: don''t know
lower girdle percent if available: don''t know
star percent if available: don''t know
fluorescence if applicable: faint
type of lab grading: not certified

Welcome!

From the info given the diamond does not appear to be well cut, we need the crown and pavilion angles to make a more accurate judgement but the diamond is deep with a large table. Also have you considered any diamonds with a GIA report or AGS? You can do better than this diamond, what you could do is ask her to show you some AGS0 or GIA Excellent cut grade, that should narrow the field for better cut stones.

It is cut which gives a diamond its beauty, so although you don''t always need a perfect cut, the proportions and finish of the diamond are very important in order for you to have a pretty stone.

What is your budget for the diamond? It isn''t really possible for us to give you a rough price for this stone as it does not have a reliable lab grade, it might not in reality be I colour and SI2 clarity.

Thank you for the response. Navigating the diamond buying experience can be a tad overwhelming; so many factors and considerations! I''m really looking for a quality stone with a solid balance of all characteristics. budget = a few thousand dollars. if the colour and clarity were accurate, what should i expect to pay? i want to gauge where their at

 

[mrob13]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:32:52 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/19/2009 3:30:34 PM
Author: mrob13
to do that, do i simply message the admin and request it? also, how common are certified diamonds and who has access to them, i.e. wholesalers, brokers, retailers, etc. i''ve heard that a stone such as the one described tend to be better than what you''d see in a retail store, but haven''t found verifiable proof of that assertion. your thoughts are appreciated.

I have already asked admin to move it for you so don''t worry!

Lab graded diamonds ( GIA and AGS are the top 2 labs) are usually found in jewellery stores and with online vendors. If you mean that the diamond you have been offered is better than what you would find in a retail store then no this isn''t actually the case. It does not have a reliable lab report, is not well cut from what I can tell and we don''t know the price.

How much are they asking for this diamond?

Thanks! That''s useful information. If you don''t mind me asking, what is your background and from where do you draw your expertise? Always nice to know where info is coming from. They quoted a price of approx. $2500 and like I said, i''m really simply attempting to do my due diligence and find a stone that I''ll be happy with. I appreciate your feedback and taking time to assist me!

 

[GoodSoul]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:59:53 PM
Author: mrob13

Date: 6/19/2009 3:32:52 PM

Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/19/2009 3:30:34 PM

Author: mrob13

to do that, do i simply message the admin and request it? also, how common are certified diamonds and who has access to them, i.e. wholesalers, brokers, retailers, etc. i've heard that a stone such as the one described tend to be better than what you'd see in a retail store, but haven't found verifiable proof of that assertion. your thoughts are appreciated.

I have already asked admin to move it for you so don't worry!


Lab graded diamonds ( GIA and AGS are the top 2 labs) are usually found in jewellery stores and with online vendors. If you mean that the diamond you have been offered is better than what you would find in a retail store then no this isn't actually the case. It does not have a reliable lab report, is not well cut from what I can tell and we don't know the price.


How much are they asking for this diamond?

Thanks! That's useful information. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background and from where do you draw your expertise? Always nice to know where info is coming from. They quoted a price of approx. $2500 and like I said, i'm really simply attempting to do my due diligence and find a stone that I'll be happy with. I appreciate your feedback and taking time to assist me!

I am not sure what's Lorelei's background but from the months that I've been on this forum, her advice has not been wrong from what I see. We bought our stone based on Lorelei, Ellen and a few other kind and knowledgeable folks from this site and I am very grateful for that.

You can click on the "knowledge" drop down menu and there are tons of info there. There are many factors to consider and it depends on your priorities. This link will give you the very general overview of the round brilliant cut.

I'm sure that once this is moved to Rocky Talk, you will get more advice from the more knowledgeable folks there, Lorelei included.

ETA: Congratulations on your decision to get a ring and welcome to PS!

 

[3Rocks]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:59:53 PM
Author: mrob13

Thanks! That's useful information. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background and from where do you draw your expertise? Always nice to know where info is coming from. They quoted a price of approx. $2500 and like I said, i'm really simply attempting to do my due diligence and find a stone that I'll be happy with. I appreciate your feedback and taking time to assist me!

Hi mrob13,

Welcome to PS!

I'm not sure whats Lorelei's background is but she helped me picked my diamond. You can see my ring in the attached link: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/infinity-diamond-rocks.117106/

About the diamond you are interested in, the 1.4ct uncertified. With that size and uncertified, you should wonder why? right? Unless, it is a used stone and whoever selling it to you lose the certificate.

 

[jstarfireb]

Lorelei will probably chime in again, but as far as her background goes, she has been on PS for many years helping others find great diamonds. She is not in the diamond business, but rather is an educated consumer. I would say she and Ellen are probably the top two most helpful PSers, in terms of finding great diamonds, quick responses, and general niceness. You''re definitely in good hands!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/19/2009 10:01:30 PM
Author: jstarfireb
Lorelei will probably chime in again, but as far as her background goes, she has been on PS for many years helping others find great diamonds. She is not in the diamond business, but rather is an educated consumer. I would say she and Ellen are probably the top two most helpful PSers, in terms of finding great diamonds, quick responses, and general niceness. You''re definitely in good hands!

big ditto to this!

 

[phoenixgirl]

Date: 6/19/2009 3:30:34 PM
Author: mrob13
to do that, do i simply message the admin and request it? also, how common are certified diamonds and who has access to them, i.e. wholesalers, brokers, retailers, etc. i've heard that a stone such as the one described tend to be better than what you'd see in a retail store, but haven't found verifiable proof of that assertion. your thoughts are appreciated.

I have never met or heard of anyone I know buying an uncertified stone unless it was part of an estate piece where the whole package was what was desired. You know what they say; you get what you pay for -- if your pricing seems to be in line with a GIA K I2 or L I1 (and it does) or EGL K I1 or L SI2, then that's probably what you're getting. It only costs a couple of hundred dollars to certify a stone even at the more coveted labs. If your dealer had a GIA certified I SI2 stone he could easily sell it for $5k or beyond . . . is it not worth a few hundred bucks to him to double his price? The truth is that he is much more likely to find somebody who likes the sound of "I SI2" and doesn't care (or know to care) about certification than that he'd find somebody looking for what it would actually be graded as.

I can also pretty much guarantee that with what we do know about cut, your stone does not have much potential to be well cut. And an SI2 in that size even from the best labs might have visible inclusions.

With your budget, I'd recommend a 1 carat or so J-L, SI1-I1 certified stone and that you work closely with an honest and informative seller to make sure that the cut is spectacular and that the inclusions do not detract from the stone's beauty.

Something like this:
1.20 L SI2 for $2650 This stone is GIA certified and scores a nice 1.7 on the HCA. My only concern would be the SI2 grade, but that's what the return policy is for.

 

[mrob13]

Sorry for the delayed response. I had to wait until a certain someone went to bed.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my inquiry; just like to know who's giving me advice on a $3K-$5K purchase...

. If Lorelei reads this, please know I appreciate you taking the time to assist me.

As for the ring, I'll admit it seemed a bit odd, but as I mentioned, it's a good family friend. Additionally, I've had numerous friends purchase from there as well, all with a good endorsement. It sounds like I could find better and want to with everyone's assistance. I'll be touching base with her on Monday and will let everyone know what becomes of the meeting.

Thanks to all for reading and lending a hand!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/20/2009 1:40:19 AM
Author: mrob13
Sorry for the delayed response. I had to wait until a certain someone went to bed.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my inquiry; just like to know who's giving me advice on a $3K-$5K purchase...

. If Lorelei reads this, please know I appreciate you taking the time to assist me.

As for the ring, I'll admit it seemed a bit odd, but as I mentioned, it's a good family friend. Additionally, I've had numerous friends purchase from there as well, all with a good endorsement. It sounds like I could find better and want to with everyone's assistance. I'll be touching base with her on Monday and will let everyone know what becomes of the meeting.

Thanks to all for reading and lending a hand!

I'll be honest. I wouldn't buy it for half that price unless I was an expert and knew the sucker was a good candidate for a recu without going under 1 carat (and by expert I mean I could judge color and clarity and inclusions for myself and had the credientials to back it up). People aren't gonna give you things out of the goodness of their hearts. And most recommendations from 'friends and family' we see here end badly. The cut is horrible and that feather (which is a nice word for a crack in the diamond) could be dangerous especially in an SI2 or below clarity.


Case in point: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-my-jeweller-did-a-terrible-job.118060/ This is usually par for the course for 'great deals' people go for from recommendations of friends. Horrible settings, terrible diamonds, and crap colored stones.

Frankly I'd rather see you get the Walmart 1 carat for under 2000K. At least there you get a good return policy.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks guys!

No I am not in the diamond business, but have been very interested in diamonds since childhood ( like many of us ladies!!). I have been posting here for over 4 years now as a hobbyist consumer and I have learned a great deal which I really enjoy trying to share and to help others. My aim is to try to help anyone who wants to buy a diamond by treating each poster as an individual and tailoring my advice according to their needs. I also try to remember my choices might not be their choices and to keep an open mind, whether a poster wants to buy a top cut h&a diamond or one which is as large as possible with just a nice cut.

I am not an expert with diamonds as an expert to me has to be someone who not only has a vast knowledge of diamonds but also has handled and examined thousands of stones and has seen various issues and diamonds in action. This is the domain of our experts who post here and I am very careful to try not to cross that line and overstep my boundaries or limitations. But I am a very experienced poster who is dedicated to trying to help others and this makes up a large and very enjoyable part of my life! Also it is easy to forget the reality, that we are looking at images and numbers all the time, but this is not really the same as handling diamonds and seeing them in action and all they can do, how various cut differences can affect them etc.


Mrob no worries at all, thats fine and you have every right to ask where the advice given is coming from. It is good to do this, we have various people offer advice here and it is good to not follow it blindly, some have more knowledge and experience than others when offering advice and it can be confusing as to who to listen to. This is a consumer forum primarily, if you look around at some of the other posters it is pretty easy to see who is in the industry, the experts and those in the trade will have their website details at the bottom of their posts.

 

[Lorelei]

As to the diamond, $2500 is very low but you get what you pay for. This sum would get you around .70 ct or a bit more give or take with a well cut stone with a reliable lab report.

The diamond is not well cut, doesn't have a report and is of low clarity. It isn't going to be the most attractive diamond due to the cut. What I would do if you want to pursue this one ( I wouldn't and would suggest you look around some more), is to check the diamond out away from the store lights if applicable, then you will see it probably doesn't do much in the way of sparkle. Then if you want to buy it, get it in writing that the diamond checks out to your satisfaction in all aspects with an independant appraisal. Below is a tool you can use to find an appraiser in your area,

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

I would also suggest as an exercise, if there is a Jareds in your area, go check out their Peerless AGS0 cut grade, or Hearts on Fire if there is a seller near you. That way you can view some well cut diamonds in person so you can see how beautiful well cut diamonds can be, and see how this one compares.

 

[mrob13]

Date: 6/20/2009 4:30:57 AM
Author: Lorelei
Thanks guys!

No I am not in the diamond business, but have been very interested in diamonds since childhood ( like many of us ladies!!). I have been posting here for over 4 years now as a hobbyist consumer and I have learned a great deal which I really enjoy trying to share and to help others. My aim is to try to help anyone who wants to buy a diamond by treating each poster as an individual and tailoring my advice according to their needs. I also try to remember my choices might not be their choices and to keep an open mind, whether a poster wants to buy a top cut h&a diamond or one which is as large as possible with just a nice cut.

I am not an expert with diamonds as an expert to me has to be someone who not only has a vast knowledge of diamonds but also has handled and examined thousands of stones and has seen various issues and diamonds in action. This is the domain of our experts who post here and I am very careful to try not to cross that line and overstep my boundaries or limitations. But I am a very experienced poster who is dedicated to trying to help others and this makes up a large and very enjoyable part of my life! Also it is easy to forget the reality, that we are looking at images and numbers all the time, but this is not really the same as handling diamonds and seeing them in action and all they can do, how various cut differences can affect them etc.


Mrob no worries at all, thats fine and you have every right to ask where the advice given is coming from. It is good to do this, we have various people offer advice here and it is good to not follow it blindly, some have more knowledge and experience than others when offering advice and it can be confusing as to who to listen to. This is a consumer forum primarily, if you look around at some of the other posters it is pretty easy to see who is in the industry, the experts and those in the trade will have their website details at the bottom of their posts.

Sorry for the hiatus. I was going back and forth on diamonds with my supplier and didn''t really have much to report. I ended up with a 1.01ct, certified stone that I''m really happy with!! I followed the recommendations and worked with my supplier to come up with a fair price. Thanks to everyone who provided their suggestions and support. I''ll try and post some images when the ring is finished in a few weeks.
Also, if someone could provide some insight as to how this site works with cutters, wholesalers, etc. that would be appreciated. When I was negotiating the price, I seemed to ruffle some feathers when I found comparable diamonds (and in one case the same diamond) for less money on this site. Is this site creating waves in the industry because it’s providing powerful information that’s eroding margins? Or, is it like any informative consumer website that aims to shift the pendulum of power/knowledge back toward to consumer. Please let me know; I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.