What HCA rating can I expect for a round, 1.4c, H, SI1 Diamond?

[jvdc]

I have been looking through several vendors and thought i found the right diamond, but the HCA rating is 6.4. It seems a bit high to me.
To be honest I really don't understand the HCA and the ideal scope. Is the brilliance and "fire" difference between an HCA rating of 4-5 detectable to the naked eye?
Should I be concerned with the high HCA rating? Comparative to some other diamonds, the one I am leaning towards didn't particularly look less brilliant or anything like that to me, but then again, I have an untrained eye.

It's measurements are:
62.6% depth
59% table
34 degree crown
41.8 degree pavillion
Triple X, no fluorescence
Slightly thick faceted? girdle (4%) <- this one I don't understand

Reading other threads, I would like to also post my current diamond search specs:
Round, 1.3c or higher, Triple X, H color or higher, SI1 or higher. Budget is up to 8.6K, the cost of this current diamond.
The SI1 is due to having gone into jewelery stores and not being able to tell the difference between SI1 and VS1 with my eyes, and thus being able to increase the carat to a 1.3 minimum. As long as it is eye clean, I feel like it should be worth getting. Am I wrong in this? Does it affect the value of the stone in terms of resale or anything like that? Not that I am planning to sell it again, but I am just unaware in terms of how a diamond holds it's value and such.

 

[Smkq117]

I'm no expert, but they say to toss anything above a 2 on the HCA. Since diamonds are cut to proportions that enhance their light performance, there are certain combinations of angles and measurements that do this... others do not, and those are the stones above 2 on HCA. Basically it's a rejection tool only - I.e. just because something is a 2 or lower doesn't guarantee anything, but above a 2 is not good. The diamond you posted is deep. From what I've learned on here, depth should be 59-62 in search criteria for a round.

 

[Smkq117]

Oh, and I own a SI1, smaller than 1.25 (0.82 Ct) and cannot see a darn thing with my eyes alone. Eye clean SIs are excellent finds. I tend to avoid SI grading due to "clouds" or lots of twinning wisps... first because clouds can appear cloudy (imagine that) and second because twinning wisps can weaken the diamond if they're in certain areas.

 

[jvdc]

Oh, and I own a SI1, smaller than 1.25 (0.82 Ct) and cannot see a darn thing with my eyes alone. Eye clean SIs are excellent finds. I tend to avoid SI grading due to "clouds" or lots of twinning wisps... first because clouds can appear cloudy (imagine that) and second because twinning wisps can weaken the diamond if they're in certain areas.

Thanks so much for the info!
The diamond I am looking at actually has several twinning wisps, so that is good to know, I will bring it up as the jeweler did not mention the weakening of the diamond to me....

I'm having a tough time trying to gauge what I should get, and it sucks when looking at bluenile or allen, because I'm worried that what I'm looking at won't be eye-clear (The magnified images of all the inclusions don't help). And even when I go to a jeweler, I can't tell a good diamond from a bad one, they point out the flaws I should see, and I take their word for it because my knowledge is so limited.
I thought just being triple x was good enough, but clearly I am missing something.
And also, is the difference between a HCA rated 2 diamond visually noticeable to the naked eye compared to say a 6.4? lol
I looked at many, many diamonds this week, and honestly, I couldn't tell jack with my untrained eyes. Everything looked great and shiny, and it really makes you feel like a child, not knowing anything.

Also, do you know which of the diamonds in this example with the two 0.73c diamonds is the better one? I have NO idea how to read those images!!
https://beyond4cs.com/grading/clarity-characteristics/what-a-lab-report-wont-tell-you/

 

[Smkq117]

Do you know where the wisps are? It does make a difference I think... perhaps an expert can chime in here

I think the difference between a 2 and a 6 would be visible, but I've also owned a few diamonds and have a few not so good ones handed down from family, so I have comparisons. The main thing you want is excellent/ideal cut. To someone who really has never worn one before, youd probably only see the difference if comparing to another diamond. But... why waste money on a 6 HCA diamond if you can get better for your budget!

Jeweler spot lighting has a way of making things look lovely as well. It is deceptive...

If you edit your search criteria to depth of 59-62 and table of 55-57 or 58, post some diamonds that meet your other criteria and people can have a look! I'd run them through HCA first to weed out >2, and then go from there. BN does have a large selection of diamonds, so it's a good place to start.

 

[jvdc]

Do you know where the wisps are? It does make a difference I think... perhaps an expert can chime in here

I think the difference between a 2 and a 6 would be visible, but I've also owned a few diamonds and have a few not so good ones handed down from family, so I have comparisons. The main thing you want is excellent/ideal cut. To someone who really has never worn one before, youd probably only see the difference if comparing to another diamond. But... why waste money on a 6 HCA diamond if you can get better for your budget!

Jeweler spot lighting has a way of making things look lovely as well. It is deceptive...

If you edit your search criteria to depth of 59-62 and table of 55-57 or 58, post some diamonds that meet your other criteria and people can have a look! I'd run them through HCA first to weed out >2, and then go from there. BN does have a large selection of diamonds, so it's a good place to start.

https://brdiamonds.com/1-40ct-round-gia-certified-h-si1-diamond-373-23.html
Looking up the GIA number, i found several sites with it listed.
There are several wisps, which was so weird to me because I couldn't see them really, even with a loupe.
I saw it in person, comparative to several others all SI1, and 1 SI1, and 1 VS1 I believe.
It looked eye clean, as far as i could tell, and I tried to view it in a couple different lightings.
I just really couldn't tell the difference in terms of brilliance between all the diamonds, except when the Color grade rose to D.

 

[Smkq117]

Those inclusions look fine to me ... Id worry if the wisps are close to the edge. But apparently, they shouldn't affect durability if they're inside the diamond. Since you said it's eyeclean, they're probably white, so I wouldn't worry about those inclusions in that diamond. But... I'd keep looking for HCA <2!

 

[tyty333]

The pavilion angle on this stone is way to high...let it go...no need to worry about the inclusions.

Many SI1s are eye-clean...just depends on the inclusions. Twinning wisp at the SI1 level usually are/can be eye-clean but you need to
make sure its not affecting the brilliance of the stone.

Other options...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2871994
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2087794

 

[jvdc]

Those inclusions look fine to me ... Id worry if the wisps are close to the edge. But apparently, they shouldn't affect durability if they're inside the diamond. Since you said it's eyeclean, they're probably white, so I wouldn't worry about those inclusions in that diamond. But... I'd keep looking for HCA <2!

By edge, do you mean the actual edge of the diamond, like the girdle area? Or the edge of the table? Because it looks like they extend over the edge of the tables? or am I reading it wrong, and the wisps are inside the crystal?

 

[jvdc]

The pavilion angle on this stone is way to high...let it go...no need to worry about the inclusions.

Many SI1s are eye-clean...just depends on the inclusions. Twinning wisp at the SI1 level usually are/can be eye-clean but you need to
make sure its not affecting the brilliance of the stone.

Hi. what is the ideal pavilion angle? And how big of a role does it play into the brilliance of the stone? A higher pavilion angle = deeper stone, so it must correlate that a deeper stone = less brilliance? Does a deeper stone no matter what have less brilliance?
I'm asking because I cannot tell the difference in brilliance when I see them next to other stones, unless like I said the color grade is much higher, it is incredibly frustrating!

 

[Karl_K]

I like diamonds with wisps as long as they are eye clean and dont suffer from scatter(looks like a snow globe in bright lighting).
They can make for a good buy.
The twisted growth lines can actually make the diamond stronger if it does not suffer from strain(internal pressure in the diamond).
The difference is very small however.
That diamond is not well cut and the difference would be eye visible. It will have color retention also, face up with more color than the other better cut diamonds with the same color material.

 

[jvdc]

I like diamonds with wisps as long as they are eye clean and dont suffer from scatter(looks like a snow globe in bright lighting).
They can make for a good buy.
The twisted growth lines can actually make the diamond stronger if it does not suffer from strain(internal pressure in the diamond).
The difference is very small however.
That diamond is not well cut and the difference would be eye visible. It will have color retention also, face up with more color than the other better cut diamonds with the same color material.

Hi, Do you know what differences would be eye visible? I am planning to look at the diamond again in a few hours. And also am I just bad at noticing color? I saw it compared to several other H color diamonds and could not tell, unless it was against the D, which was visible to me.
Do you mind posting your preferences for a well cut diamond? I am looking across many, many threads, and forums, and everyone seems to have their own preference on their angles and %ages.
Also, if you don't mind, could you give me a few examples of SI1's that you would buy yourself?

 

[Karl_K]

Being in the trade I can not link stones. Sorry.
Yes the cut difference would be eye visible in many lighting conditions.
"many lighting conditions" being the key, the lighting in many shops is designed to make any diamond look good.
Make any comparisons in as many lighting conditions as possible.
On trick is to use a piece of notebook paper to tone down the lighting by using it to shade the diamond.

 

[jvdc]

Being in the trade I can not link stones. Sorry.
Yes the cut difference would be eye visible in many lighting conditions.
"many lighting conditions" being the key, the lighting in many shops is designed to make any diamond look good.
Make any comparisons in as many lighting conditions as possible.
On trick is to use a piece of notebook paper to tone down the lighting by using it to shade the diamond.

I believe he used a portable specific light was use by GIA for grading the color? It did something to make the color more visible in the diamonds, and I still couldn't see the difference between the H diamonds. It seemed legitimate, but I have no idea so wondering if that makes a difference?

 

[rockysalamander]

The stone you posted would be a no for me. Not worth a second look. PS members can post options per your specs.

Only consider GIA or AGS graded stones. IGI and EGL are soft on color and sometimes clarity.

Stick with stones within these ranges to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone. For a local jeweler, tell them you only want stones that are within these ranges:
table: 52-57.5 (but I really prefer under 57)
depth: 60-62.3 (consider 59.5)
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Then, run those four numbers through the HCA tool (https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca) and reject anything greater than 2.0 (1.0 not better than 1.9, this is used to simply reject stones). But, if you like 60/60 stones, this tool has some limitations, its requires more of an visual assessment and the IS/ASET.

Anything left, that meets your clarity and color needs is worthy of requesting images IS/ASET. But, if you look at super-ideal stones (WF ACA, Brian Gavin Select,GoodOldGold,HighPerformanceDiamonds, etc.), just look at the images and ignore the above process

 

[ringo865]

You can tell the color difference between an H and a D. Probably shen they are right next to each other. This has nothing to do with the angles the stone has been cut to. The angles, as in billiards, are the most important in getting an object where it needs to go. In the case of billiards, the ball into the pocket. In the case of diamonds, the light into your eyes.

One fraction of one degree off in either direction, can have a devastating result.

Give your jeweler rockys angle parameters above. Again, eliminate stones with an HCA score over 2.

Possibly, your jeweler can pull diamonds recommended here from virtual inventory.

However, your jeweler probably doesn't have the have the equipment for imaging stones (idealscope or ASET) that many of the recommended vendors here provide. If he does, have him show you the image on that 6.4 stone against an AGS0 stone.

 

[OoohShiny]

Rather than bounce round the facets and then come back out the top, making the stone look bright and giving off fire from the crown, light rays will enter a 'steep/deep' diamond (such as one with an HCA score of 6.4) and then bounce out the sides of the stone - this will make the stone dark and perform badly.

 

[jadesilver]

Thanks so much for the info!
The diamond I am looking at actually has several twinning wisps, so that is good to know, I will bring it up as the jeweler did not mention the weakening of the diamond to me....

I'm having a tough time trying to gauge what I should get, and it sucks when looking at bluenile or allen, because I'm worried that what I'm looking at won't be eye-clear (The magnified images of all the inclusions don't help). And even when I go to a jeweler, I can't tell a good diamond from a bad one, they point out the flaws I should see, and I take their word for it because my knowledge is so limited.
I thought just being triple x was good enough, but clearly I am missing something.
And also, is the difference between a HCA rated 2 diamond visually noticeable to the naked eye compared to say a 6.4? lol
I looked at many, many diamonds this week, and honestly, I couldn't tell jack with my untrained eyes. Everything looked great and shiny, and it really makes you feel like a child, not knowing anything.

Also, do you know which of the diamonds in this example with the two 0.73c diamonds is the better one? I have NO idea how to read those images!!
https://beyond4cs.com/grading/clarity-characteristics/what-a-lab-report-wont-tell-you/

Hello I know exactly how you feel haha. Jewelry store lighting is very deceiving so you can’t judge diamonds based on that. And please don’t worry about feeling like a child, the majority of guys going to jewelry stores for an engagement ring have the exact same amount of knowledge and THAT is the reason why a jeweller can recommend you a badly-cut diamond with HCA score 6.4 and urge you to buy it.

You CAN see the difference between HCA score 6.4 and HCA score below 2, but you’ll have to take both diamonds into several different lightings (NOT in a jewelry store) to see it. If you skip forward to 1:47 this video shows the diamonds in shaded sunlight:

I am sure you’ll be able to tell the difference then, between a diamond that is extremely symmetrical (ideal cut which we want to help you find) and a diamond that is way less sparkly because of poor cut and light leakage (HCA 6++). The worse diamond also has other problems like inclusions, but I wanted to try to show a video where the difference was more obvious and showed both the diamonds in natural light, so sorry if this wasn’t the perfect example video!

I think the most important thing is that you do get a diamond that has a HCA score of below 2. I would personally also recommend you to go down to SI2 as long as it’s somewhat eye clean. Triple ex isn’t good enough, HCA score is important to get a sparkly diamond without light leakage.

For the article, the first diamond is the one that is better cut and the second one is the one with the worse cut. If you’ve looked at a bazillion hearts and arrows diamond images like some of us have done, the first one is the one that shows the arrows clearly, and also it’s very symmetrical in cut and the second one isn’t, the cut is very uneven, look at the white long triangle parts around the center, they should be all the same size like in the first picture.

It sounds like you want to max out your carat weight and basically get the biggest diamond for your budget that’s still pretty eye-clean and of course, cut is king so I’m sure you want a diamond that is extremely sparkly and no light leakage (so HCA score should be less than 2).

Therefore I’d encourage you to get your diamond from JA or BN. But JA gives aset images so I’d go with JA instead personally.

PSers can recommend you a diamond on JA that is up to 1.3ct but also has a HCA score of below 2 and is probably eyeclean. The JA gemologist can also check that it’s eyeclean, I feel that even SI2 can be eyeclean and SI2 savings can be significant so you can go bigger on the diamond.

I would personally feel more comfortable with a diamond recommended by PSers, some of whom are professionals and can verify if a diamond is worth buying or not. More than one person will chime in and review the diamonds suggested by others. I wouldn’t trust the jeweller who is making money off you and therefore recommended you a stone that falls way out of the HCA range. Yes, there is a big difference! Even if you personally feel you can’t see a difference right now, I’d rather you spend your money on something really good value for your hard-earned money instead of getting cheated and paying more for something that isn’t worth that much.

I’d recommend that for your own peace of mind that you order that diamond you decide on as recommended by PSers (you can return it), look at it with your own eyes in sunlight and in the house, and see if you can see any flaws/specks in it. You shouldn’t be able to see anything (assuming you avoided black inclusions). That will reassure you with regards to eyeclean-ness. And as a very average woman, I would personally rather have a bigger diamond with a tiny black speck in the corner that I never noticed until pointed out to me, rather than a smaller diamond that’s extremely extremely eyeclean. But that also depends on your fiancée and whether she has the same knowledge and thoughts on diamonds as you do. If she is like you and can’t see the differences between SI etc and just wants something sparkly and good quality, I think SI2 is fine. I would just put the question to her, if she wants a bigger and possibly slightly less perfect diamond or a smaller but perfect diamond. The answer would help you go bigger. And there are certainly people who can’t see any inclusions in their SI2 diamonds when worn daily.

If everything is ok then just send it back to JA for setting. And JA should also be able to beat the price of your jeweller.

Now you have a diamond that you know for sure is of high quality, with the very best value for your budget (instead of overpaying), because people with experience helped you pick it and you saw with your own eyes that it’s a good diamond vs. a badly-cut diamond.