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What does white privilege mean?

Growing up, I was a ‘poor white girl’ ... trailer park and all ... until I chose to no longer be. I know, you’ll come back and tell me "not everyone can choose" ... yada yada yada. And just like every other time, I won’t buy it because I know and have seen too many other women and minorities who started out far worse than me who have succeeded well beyond me. It CAN be done ... you can make choices or make excuses - up to ‘you’. I read a LOT of excuses, and a LOT of people here saying minorities "can’t" ... ever stop to think you might be the problem? Maybe you are the very people keeping them down, making them think they can’t.

Somehow you manage repeatedly to say the most tone-deaf, judgemental, and narrow-minded things. It's amazing to watch, frankly. I have no hope at this point that you'll ever manage to see the world as it is nor develop the capability to walk a mile in others' shoes, so I'm not really responding to you, but with the hopes that there are others reading this thread.

I was raised as a white girl in an upper middle-class home by two university-educated people with professional backgrounds. They were also deeply disturbed. My childhood was filled with constant emotional and physical abuse - and trust me, with a doctorate-level research psychologist as a father, he had the knowledge to come up with some doozies in the psychological abuse department. There was also violence - mostly toward me, from my parents and my older brother - as well as sexual abuse, emotional and physical abandonment, alcoholism, prescription drug abuse, and mental illness in several family members (resulting in the suicide death of my grandmother, who was one of only two people I ever encountered in my childhood who treated me with kindness). The shining moment came when my father literally tried to choke me to death in front of my mother because - get this - I dared to read a book sitting in a chair that didn't have a lamp next to it. Now, somehow in spite of this, I worked hard in school, got good grades, never got into trouble, and earned scholarships for a nearby university. By the time I reached the end of my time getting my degree, though, I was hardly able to function from multiple diagnosed chronic illnesses as well as a heaping dose of inherited mental illness in the form of depression, every anxiety disorder possible, OCD, and ADHD. My body was utterly breaking down from the chronic cortisol release of the accumulated stress of 22 years of this. In addition, I had literally no healthy social skills to form friendships or professional relationships. I desperately wanted to be loved, but had no idea how to have a healthy romantic relationship. This led to repeated relationships where I was taken advantage of, stolen from, abused, and eventually raped. I managed to finish my degree, summa cum laude, but under constant threat from my family doctor of hospitalization for the state my body was in. I entered therapy, which I've pretty much been in nearly constantly since then, and have worked hard at it. I've journaled. I've meditated. I've gone to support groups. I've done plenty of (fruitful) time in Al-Anon. I've learned so much and grown so much. 30 years later, I'm in a healthy marriage with a good man. And I have worked as hard as I could to be productive in society, to do good work in my day jobs and in my musical career, but you know what? I've not been successful. And I literally tried as hard as I possibly could. But the combined complete lack of any real self-confidence despite hard work in therapy, effects of mental illness despite treatment, side effects of the medications for the mental illness, and continued chronic illnesses - all of which are stress-induced, per more than one doctor - have left me essentially disabled in terms of career earnings or conventional measures of success. All of this is to say one thing to you: hard work and force of will is simply not always enough and I'm sick to death of people like you spouting off that it is, and judging without knowledge the circumstances of other peoples' lives.

Trust me, I would love it if that old trope were true. I've worked my ass off, at my schooling, at my career, at my recovery from the damage done to me as a vulnerable child, at learning to have healthier relationships, at taking care of my body. I've been commended by professors, peers, doctors, and therapists for how hard I work. I believed for years that if I just kept at it, I would eventually be able to have a reasonably normal life. But you know what? My big payoff is that, so far, I've not become a drug addict, an alcoholic, a prostitute, a criminal in prison, or dead - like many of the people that have experienced what I have. And I am grateful for that, but I've still needed help. Help to afford my medical care. Help to pay my bills. Hard work wasn't enough on it's own. And that is with having white privilege in my corner! (Although I certainly have had to do battle with male privilege.)

Look, I'm sincerely happy for you that you have been able to work very hard and rise above your initial circumstances to build a good life. I by no means wish to take any credit for what you have achieved away from you. I'm equally happy for the others you have known who also have managed to build good lives for themselves. BUT - YOUR EXPERIENCES DO NOT EQUAL EVERYONE ELSE'S! Do you have any clue how difficult it can be for someone to grow up in circumstances like mine in addition to dealing with a system that is stacked against them because of their race, gender, gender identity, sexual preferences, or physical appearance - things they had no choice in whatsoever? Did it occur to you that maybe there was a certain measure of genetic luck for you and the others you mentioned that your particular physical health and capabilities were less affected by the stresses of your childhood or of prejudices that have to be dealt with daily than some of the rest of us?

It is long past time for you and others like you to come down off that judgemental high horse of yours.
 
OboeGal-

You wrote such a wonderful posting. Thank you for sharing your story with us. My heart bleeds for you. I had very loving parents who never abused me, yet simply because of some unfortunate things they did, with complete good will, and how those things worked out in our family dynamic, I was adversely affected. Like you, I sought help. I am not comparing the level of distress I felt to yours, but I can empathize completely. One can "have it all" and still be crushed by one's family life.

Big hugs,
(((OboeGal)))
AGBF
 
OboeGal-

You wrote such a wonderful posting. Thank you for sharing your story with us. My heart bleeds for you. I had very loving parents who never abused me, yet simply because of some unfortunate things they did, with complete good will, and how those things worked out in our family dynamic, I was adversely affected. Like you, I sought help. I am not comparing the level of distress I felt to yours, but I can empathize completely. One can "have it all" and still be crushed by one's family life.

Big hugs,
(((OboeGal)))
AGBF

Thank you for your openness to it and your response. One of the things I often think of is how much worse so many others have it or have had it. I can't even imagine what my life would have been like if I had experienced that in the context of generations of prejudice, generations of poverty, horrible chaos-filled schools, a neighborhood full of crime, drugs, gangs, etc., especially when there are plenty of statistics that show that the kinds of trauma I experienced are more likely to occur to children in those contexts, due to all of the accumulated trauma and stress in the adults. I simply can't fathom how anyone can't see how stacked the deck still is.
 
@OboeGal You & others choose to divulge every single detail of your lives on here. I don't ... my childhood was no walk in the park; it's just none of your/anyone else's business. Yet, I don't personally attack you or anyone else. That you (and others here) choose to speaks volumes about you and furthers my belief that liberal/feminist women are no real champions of women unless they sing the same version of kumbaya.
 
@OboeGal You & others choose to divulge every single detail of your lives on here. I don't ... my childhood was no walk in the park; it's just none of your/anyone else's business. Yet, I don't personally attack you or anyone else. That you (and others here) choose to speaks volumes about you and furthers my belief that liberal/feminist women are no real champions of women unless they sing the same version of kumbaya.

Well, as expected, you completely missed the point. The point was that your capability to overcome your circumstances does not automatically dictate that everyone else must be able to overcome whatever life has thrown their way regardless. Other peoples' lives and health are different than yours, and hard work and force of will are not necessarily enough. Sometimes they are; many times they are not. You're utterly wrong when you say you don't attack anyone - I watch you do it on these boards all the time. You are attacking me when you assert that because you and some others you know were able to overcome difficult circumstances by hard work, that others who tried like crazy and could not - like me - failed because we 'chose to' and 'made excuses'. That speaks volumes about you. And I would say that to you whether you were man or woman, liberal or conservative.
 
OboeGal-

You wrote such a wonderful posting. Thank you for sharing your story with us. My heart bleeds for you. I had very loving parents who never abused me, yet simply because of some unfortunate things they did, with complete good will, and how those things worked out in our family dynamic, I was adversely affected. Like you, I sought help. I am not comparing the level of distress I felt to yours, but I can empathize completely. One can "have it all" and still be crushed by one's family life.

Big hugs,
(((OboeGal)))
AGBF

Don't want to give details, but amen to that. Wise words indeed.

ETA: This is why I've never had much time for the institution of the family. At its best, it can be amazing but all too often it's claustrophic, toxic, unhealthy, and abusive. I've never really understood why the institution of the family is so worshiped. For so many millions, the family is the crucible where the worst damage takes place.
 
Oh @OboeGal, I’m so sorry. All children deserve to feel safe, secure and loved. I’m glad you are married to a kind wonderful man.

I’ve given up trying to explain some things here. Like you, I can’t understand what is so difficult for some to understand. I truly believe some people are missing an empathy and compassion chip.
 
I don't personally attack you or anyone else.


This is a lie. You attack more viciously than anyone else who posts in Hangout.

liberal/feminist women are no real champions of women unless they sing the same version of kumbaya.

And this is a fallacy. You may believe that we need you to sing "Kumbaya", but if you would just stop attacking to draw blood, it would be a great improvement.

AGBF
 
It's not about your own experiences, but about what you learn from them. Not about your past, but about your takeaway from it.
Congratulations on your success story, @the_mother_thing. I am happy that everything has worked out so well for you.
Do you still know how you felt when you were a little girl? Others are feeling like this right now.
If your answer to this is : "well, I have pulled myself up by my bootstraps and so should they", I invite you to some self reflection on how to overcome repeating viscous cycles in human development . It means truly overcoming a hurtful past. Not career, a number on your bank account or any worldly possessions.
 
White privilege means if you are a white person in America you were born privileged. Fact.

Being born privileged does not mean you have a perfect life. But it does mean you have a head start over those who were not born white.

American culture is white centric. Period. Having white skin gives one perks over those who do not have white skin. There are fewer obstacles that those of us who were born white take for granted.

White skin opens doors. Hiring discrimination based on race is real and has not changed much in the past 25 years.

This is white privilege.

congrats.jpg
 
I am ashamed to admit I was a big preacher of "OMG pull your shit together, I did it and managed to escape my insane parents, get over yourself."

I was like this for many years and didn't realise how lucky I was to be blessed with...I dunno...whatever ability it was to write off all of my insane mother's abuse throughout my entire childhood and young adulthood.

Then I had a baby and my world fell apart. I still had the same comfortable life I had built for myself (and had been very smug about) but I fell apart. I had severe undetected PND, cried every day, wished my beautiful baby would disappear and that I could reset my life. It wasn't until after I recovered from this a few years later that I truly understood how lucky I was. For some miraculous stroke of luck I was blessed with the ability not to give a f@ck about the random crazy shit my mother would pull (like threatening to throw my newborn sister out of the window because all of us children were useless and out to ruin her life), pull myself (and my sister out of her clutches) and that it was a HUGE random stroke of luck my childhood did not affect me the way PND did.

My beloved dog also passed away last year which really challenged the rock solid will I normally had. He got old, got cancer...I don't think I did anything wrong but for months every day I replayed his last days in excruciating detail and could not get through a day without some kind of silent meltdown. That boy broke my heart. It all seems so trivial. He was just a dog most people would think but his death has crushed me more than anything in my childhood. I will never see him again. I had 11 beautiful years and it is well and truly over now. My "will" is not working this time. I hope it comes back. I would like it to come back.

I sing a different tune these days and hope that I am slowly learning to understand other people's experiences more. I can only try.
 
I think the word privilege puts people on the defensive. It doesn't mean you were handed everything on a golden platter. It means that if you take two people of similar circumstances, the one with privileged status will generally be better off. It's why my rich friends can have a baby out of wedlock and still live the good life, while that would sink someone who grew up poor. It's why my husband (white) could break the speed limit on a test drive testing out the engine (ugh) and walk away with a warning. It's the reason my husband and I, being frugal and smart and making good choices, are no better off than my brother who has floundered around and taken on 100K+ debt, because he has access to family money we don't. It's the reason when I get confronted taking pictures yet again, I get a friendly response as a white female. Give my camera to a black man and let's see what happens when he accidentally trespasses on some farmer's land. Kids who attend schools with adequate text books, working bathrooms, and quality teachers are more likely to graduate. People who grew up with married parents are more likely to stay married themselves. Being born with high intelligence will enable someone to climb out of poor circumstances a less gifted person couldn't. Privilege a complex issue and goes beyond race.

Privilege doesn't mean your life is some cakewalk or that you don't have to do the work. It means you have better tools to work with.

And no one should feel bad or guilty for having privilege. What we should be advocating is for everyone to have those kind of advantages! But, almost without fail, I see the most privileged in this country sneering the most at those who have the least. Other people are lazy, make excuses, make bad choices, deserve their lot, while they're convinced their success was 100% their superior nature. It's infuriating, frankly.
 
I think of white privilege as phenomena related to when you are not an ethnic miniority and have a main, identifiable stereotype that the majority of peers understand. As an ethnic miniority, I have definitely had moments where I felt out of place, mores so as a child than today. As a woman, I have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously in my male- dominated work place.

Although I recognize it's existence, I find the concept dangerous, similar to how the label "model miniority" is problematic. The very notion of "white privilege" could be insulting to those that are white who have experienced no privilege (educational, parental support etc). Consider each human being belonging to any ethnicity within a distribution of income levels. These distributions have median/means that are observed to be different. White privilege seems to explain these differences solely by the fact that white people are "privileged". This definitely rings true for probably the majority of individuals (Ie: how schools separate amongst expensive "good" school districts and not so good school districts). This explanation completely ignores a subset of the distribution that is not doing well, or have busted their butts to get out of that below average half of the distribution. Some belonging to this group may feel as if their achievements are downplayed simply because they are white. Hence, they lash out, act emotional, get defensive because they are so blinded by their biases that they rationalize the scenario to a belief that they are responding to the "facts". I'm not pointing my fingers at anyone but I ask those who feels like this applies to you or someone you are arguing with to think about it from their shoes as well. We all have our biases and the world really isn't binary, it's very complex and the root cause is so ingrained into our society that it becomes a chicken/egg problem.

The current scenarios does afford us some mobility, some freedom, but there seems to be a "glass ceiling" for some, and it's definitely harder because we start off with unequal blessings. Perhaps, we as a society, should strive for equity, not true equality to encourage mobility to those who drew the short end of the stick in life. It's hard to make everyone agree that life is hard for everyone, we only get to experience our own.

To end, I add an image that I was shown in a class about how to teach. And you can make of it what you think. White privilege is a simple explanation to a hard, complex problem. In its simplicity it is insulting to some. Somehow we have to get past the short take homes to think critically and hope that it doesn't get so hard for those born "short".

upload_2018-10-8_7-10-43.jpeg
 
Okay, which programs do you mean? I think I had it easier than today because it was easier to get interest free loans, FHA home loans were plentiful, there was way more compassion. Programs for minorities have been declining since Clinton slashed welfare. DeVos wants college kids to pay higher interest rates than normal loans.. I hope you will post why you think there is more opportunity for minorities today.


@Tekate I think it's awesome you worked as hard as you did, and did what you had to in order to succeed. But - in all sincerity & respect - that was a few years back. And I don't mean that to say it was easier or harder; rather, today and for several years, there have never been more opportunities for everyone to suceed. There is a way, a program, quotas, etc., so in this era, I think the playing field has been largely evened out to the pount that there are far fewer excuses/reasons/barriers to anyone who truly wants to 'make it', especially if you are a minority.
 
I am ashamed to admit I was a big preacher of "OMG pull your shit together, I did it and managed to escape my insane parents, get over yourself."

I was like this for many years and didn't realise how lucky I was to be blessed with...I dunno...whatever ability it was to write off all of my insane mother's abuse throughout my entire childhood and young adulthood.

Then I had a baby and my world fell apart. I still had the same comfortable life I had built for myself (and had been very smug about) but I fell apart. I had severe undetected PND, cried every day, wished my beautiful baby would disappear and that I could reset my life. It wasn't until after I recovered from this a few years later that I truly understood how lucky I was. For some miraculous stroke of luck I was blessed with the ability not to give a f@ck about the random crazy shit my mother would pull (like threatening to throw my newborn sister out of the window because all of us children were useless and out to ruin her life), pull myself (and my sister out of her clutches) and that it was a HUGE random stroke of luck my childhood did not affect me the way PND did.

My beloved dog also passed away last year which really challenged the rock solid will I normally had. He got old, got cancer...I don't think I did anything wrong but for months every day I replayed his last days in excruciating detail and could not get through a day without some kind of silent meltdown. That boy broke my heart. It all seems so trivial. He was just a dog most people would think but his death has crushed me more than anything in my childhood. I will never see him again. I had 11 beautiful years and it is well and truly over now. My "will" is not working this time. I hope it comes back. I would like it to come back.

I sing a different tune these days and hope that I am slowly learning to understand other people's experiences more. I can only try.


I am sorry that to gain empathy you had to suffer so much. It should not be such a hard road. I am sincerely sorry for what you endured after your baby's birth and after your dog's death. I am also sorry that you had such a challenging childhood. You must have some very sturdy genetic material that you were able to go through so many years before having a meltdown. I do not know if you believe in God-I was about to say "God bless you"-but if you do or do not, please accept a warm hug.

Hugs,
(((mellowyellowgirl)))
AGBF
 
Well either I welcome you to my club or vice versa. You are successful, but you can't feel it, I know this.

That 'desperate need to be loved', I wish I could just hug you. There were 4 of us and we all came away broken. My sister - until she had her 2 kids - loved NO ONE, me I loved everyone and every schmuck who dated me or attacked me whatever, looking for love in all the wrong places, then I married the assh--- who spent 10 years telling me I was stupid, fat, lazy, couldn't do anything right, ugly, I had visible panty line (at a size 11 no less).. that I had an upstate NY accent, and basically I was his verbal battering ram, I took it 'cause it was like home!...

Years of therapy, my ex dumped me for a 19 yr old girl was he was 33 (he had quit his job and I was making the money and he went back to college to get a EE degree and he met her there, karma tho, she dumped him and said he was 'grumpy' hahaha!) I started dating the man I've been married to for 31 years and he was not always understanding but he always supported me going to therapy (over and over :) )

OboeGal, I told my sister over and over thru our 45 years of adulthood before she died, I said to her "we are humpty dumpty eggs, we have been put back together again, but we are CRACKED and barely holding on and always will be" it helped her immensely, does this phrase ring a bell: "I just want to be normal" well I'm almost 66 and I still watch other women to see if I am acting like 'normal people' :)

I send you a huge big hug, I tell you that you will never know who you could have been without the trauma of your childhood, but You are moving forward, my crazy, insane, sociopath brother said one of his therapists said to him that you cannot go forward if you keep looking back.. I try to live that, but girl it's damn hard at times.

Also, I feel lucky I'm here. I attribute that to me and my genetic makeup, because my sister and one brother are dead.. and my other brother is so insane I find it hard to believe he's still here. I hate the word PTSD (or phrase) I have been diagnosed with PTSD from every shrink and therapist in my life, I read about all these vets who come home and have 'ptsd' well let me tell you, I understand that, but there wasn't one person cheering for me and my brothers and sister, not one group screaming for us.. no groups offering free anything, I resent that I really do.

My parents sobered up and my mother also got off drugs, and for 25 years they were exemplar parents and grandparents, my mother wrote my the most heart wrenching, painful letter about her pain at what she did to me, I forgave but I carry scars scars scars... My mom fought death for years - she wanted to make amends over and over.. so you and I are rag dolls all patched together, and I at least from 25 on till my mom died when I was 46 a mother who did her best to love and support me the best she good and my kids LOVED her.. I am so sorry for you and this pain.. I care - I REALLY do.

MT will never get it. never. ever.

Peace


Somehow you manage repeatedly to say the most tone-deaf, judgemental, and narrow-minded things. It's amazing to watch, frankly. I have no hope at this point that you'll ever manage to see the world as it is nor develop the capability to walk a mile in others' shoes, so I'm not really responding to yo

u, but with the hopes that there are others reading this thread.

I was raised as a white girl in an upper middle-class home by two university-educated people with professional backgrounds. They were also deeply disturbed. My childhood was filled with constant emotional and physical abuse - and trust me, with a doctorate-level research psychologist as a father, he had the knowledge to come up with some doozies in the psychological abuse department. There was also violence - mostly toward me, from my parents and my older brother - as well as sexual abuse, emotional and physical abandonment, alcoholism, prescription drug abuse, and mental illness in several family members (resulting in the suicide death of my grandmother, who was one of only two people I ever encountered in my childhood who treated me with kindness). The shining moment came when my father literally tried to choke me to death in front of my mother because - get this - I dared to read a book sitting in a chair that didn't have a lamp next to it. Now, somehow in spite of this, I worked hard in school, got good grades, never got into trouble, and earned scholarships for a nearby university. By the time I reached the end of my time getting my degree, though, I was hardly able to function from multiple diagnosed chronic illnesses as well as a heaping dose of inherited mental illness in the form of depression, every anxiety disorder possible, OCD, and ADHD. My body was utterly breaking down from the chronic cortisol release of the accumulated stress of 22 years of this. In addition, I had literally no healthy social skills to form friendships or professional relationships. I desperately wanted to be loved, but had no idea how to have a healthy romantic relationship. This led to repeated relationships where I was taken advantage of, stolen from, abused, and eventually raped. I managed to finish my degree, summa cum laude, but under constant threat from my family doctor of hospitalization for the state my body was in. I entered therapy, which I've pretty much been in nearly constantly since then, and have worked hard at it. I've journaled. I've meditated. I've gone to support groups. I've done plenty of (fruitful) time in Al-Anon. I've learned so much and grown so much. 30 years later, I'm in a healthy marriage with a good man. And I have worked as hard as I could to be productive in society, to do good work in my day jobs and in my musical career, but you know what? I've not been successful. And I literally tried as hard as I possibly could. But the combined complete lack of any real self-confidence despite hard work in therapy, effects of mental illness despite treatment, side effects of the medications for the mental illness, and continued chronic illnesses - all of which are stress-induced, per more than one doctor - have left me essentially disabled in terms of career earnings or conventional measures of success. All of this is to say one thing to you: hard work and force of will is simply not always enough and I'm sick to death of people like you spouting off that it is, and judging without knowledge the circumstances of other peoples' lives.

Trust me, I would love it if that old trope were true. I've worked my ass off, at my schooling, at my career, at my recovery from the damage done to me as a vulnerable child, at learning to have healthier relationships, at taking care of my body. I've been commended by professors, peers, doctors, and therapists for how hard I work. I believed for years that if I just kept at it, I would eventually be able to have a reasonably normal life. But you know what? My big payoff is that, so far, I've not become a drug addict, an alcoholic, a prostitute, a criminal in prison, or dead - like many of the people that have experienced what I have. And I am grateful for that, but I've still needed help. Help to afford my medical care. Help to pay my bills. Hard work wasn't enough on it's own. And that is with having white privilege in my corner! (Although I certainly have had to do battle with male privilege.)

Look, I'm sincerely happy for you that you have been able to work very hard and rise above your initial circumstances to build a good life. I by no means wish to take any credit for what you have achieved away from you. I'm equally happy for the others you have known who also have managed to build good lives for themselves. BUT - YOUR EXPERIENCES DO NOT EQUAL EVERYONE ELSE'S! Do you have any clue how difficult it can be for someone to grow up in circumstances like mine in addition to dealing with a system that is stacked against them because of their race, gender, gender identity, sexual preferences, or physical appearance - things they had no choice in whatsoever? Did it occur to you that maybe there was a certain measure of genetic luck for you and the others you mentioned that your particular physical health and capabilities were less affected by the stresses of your childhood or of prejudices that have to be dealt with daily than some of the rest of us?

It is long past time for you and others like you to come down off that judgemental high horse of yours.
 
Well either I welcome you to my club or vice versa. You are successful, but you can't feel it, I know this.

That 'desperate need to be loved', I wish I could just hug you. There were 4 of us and we all came away broken. My sister - until she had her 2 kids - loved NO ONE, me I loved everyone and every schmuck who dated me or attacked me whatever, looking for love in all the wrong places, then I married the assh--- who spent 10 years telling me I was stupid, fat, lazy, couldn't do anything right, ugly, I had visible panty line (at a size 11 no less).. that I had an upstate NY accent, and basically I was his verbal battering ram, I took it 'cause it was like home!...


Peace

I understand the bold all too well (didn't marry the assh---, but certainly dated all the types you mentioned above). I am ashamed to say that I'm honestly sometimes more comfortable with romantic partners that treat me like sh-t, because it makes sense. I don't understand why DH loves me or stays. Especially on bad days.
 
Well either I welcome you to my club or vice versa. You are successful, but you can't feel it, I know this.

That 'desperate need to be loved', I wish I could just hug you. There were 4 of us and we all came away broken. My sister - until she had her 2 kids - loved NO ONE, me I loved everyone and every schmuck who dated me or attacked me whatever, looking for love in all the wrong places, then I married the assh--- who spent 10 years telling me I was stupid, fat, lazy, couldn't do anything right, ugly, I had visible panty line (at a size 11 no less).. that I had an upstate NY accent, and basically I was his verbal battering ram, I took it 'cause it was like home!...

Years of therapy, my ex dumped me for a 19 yr old girl was he was 33 (he had quit his job and I was making the money and he went back to college to get a EE degree and he met her there, karma tho, she dumped him and said he was 'grumpy' hahaha!) I started dating the man I've been married to for 31 years and he was not always understanding but he always supported me going to therapy (over and over :) )

OboeGal, I told my sister over and over thru our 45 years of adulthood before she died, I said to her "we are humpty dumpty eggs, we have been put back together again, but we are CRACKED and barely holding on and always will be" it helped her immensely, does this phrase ring a bell: "I just want to be normal" well I'm almost 66 and I still watch other women to see if I am acting like 'normal people' :)

I send you a huge big hug, I tell you that you will never know who you could have been without the trauma of your childhood, but You are moving forward, my crazy, insane, sociopath brother said one of his therapists said to him that you cannot go forward if you keep looking back.. I try to live that, but girl it's damn hard at times.

Also, I feel lucky I'm here. I attribute that to me and my genetic makeup, because my sister and one brother are dead.. and my other brother is so insane I find it hard to believe he's still here. I hate the word PTSD (or phrase) I have been diagnosed with PTSD from every shrink and therapist in my life, I read about all these vets who come home and have 'ptsd' well let me tell you, I understand that, but there wasn't one person cheering for me and my brothers and sister, not one group screaming for us.. no groups offering free anything, I resent that I really do.

My parents sobered up and my mother also got off drugs, and for 25 years they were exemplar parents and grandparents, my mother wrote my the most heart wrenching, painful letter about her pain at what she did to me, I forgave but I carry scars scars scars... My mom fought death for years - she wanted to make amends over and over.. so you and I are rag dolls all patched together, and I at least from 25 on till my mom died when I was 46 a mother who did her best to love and support me the best she good and my kids LOVED her.. I am so sorry for you and this pain.. I care - I REALLY do.

MT will never get it. never. ever.

Peace

Thank you so very much. Hugs back to you.
 
I understand the bold all too well (didn't marry the assh---, but certainly dated all the types you mentioned above). I am ashamed to say that I'm honestly sometimes more comfortable with romantic partners that treat me like sh-t, because it makes sense. I don't understand why DH loves me or stays. Especially on bad days.

So much the same here. Yet I see how kind and compassionate you are here on these boards, and I see why he loves you.
 
I am ashamed to admit I was a big preacher of "OMG pull your shit together, I did it and managed to escape my insane parents, get over yourself."

I was like this for many years and didn't realise how lucky I was to be blessed with...I dunno...whatever ability it was to write off all of my insane mother's abuse throughout my entire childhood and young adulthood.

Then I had a baby and my world fell apart. I still had the same comfortable life I had built for myself (and had been very smug about) but I fell apart. I had severe undetected PND, cried every day, wished my beautiful baby would disappear and that I could reset my life. It wasn't until after I recovered from this a few years later that I truly understood how lucky I was. For some miraculous stroke of luck I was blessed with the ability not to give a f@ck about the random crazy shit my mother would pull (like threatening to throw my newborn sister out of the window because all of us children were useless and out to ruin her life), pull myself (and my sister out of her clutches) and that it was a HUGE random stroke of luck my childhood did not affect me the way PND did.

My beloved dog also passed away last year which really challenged the rock solid will I normally had. He got old, got cancer...I don't think I did anything wrong but for months every day I replayed his last days in excruciating detail and could not get through a day without some kind of silent meltdown. That boy broke my heart. It all seems so trivial. He was just a dog most people would think but his death has crushed me more than anything in my childhood. I will never see him again. I had 11 beautiful years and it is well and truly over now. My "will" is not working this time. I hope it comes back. I would like it to come back.

I sing a different tune these days and hope that I am slowly learning to understand other people's experiences more. I can only try.

Thank you for sharing this. I really appreciate and admire your openness to growth. And I'm so sorry about the loss of your sweet pup; I've been there, and understand your grief.
 
aw Lovedogs! (me too) I am sorry, I feel your pain, my husband used to say to me ALL THE TIME the first 25 years of our marriage, Stop making me pay for what assh--- did, and finally I did. You are worthwhile and your husband finds something that he finds perfect in you. I will say LD, you are used to being put down and it feels comfortable, right and true.. but it's not.. I think it takes guts to face ourselves.. You are what your husband finds irresistible! :) I think you are swell and find your posts fascinating, brilliant and strong.. You are strong. that is good.

Peace and a huge hug to you!!!

I understand the bold all too well (didn't marry the assh---, but certainly dated all the types you mentioned above). I am ashamed to say that I'm honestly sometimes more comfortable with romantic partners that treat me like sh-t, because it makes sense. I don't understand why DH loves me or stays. Especially on bad days.
 
@lovedog, What you grow up with becomes your normal. That is what feels comfortable, even when you know it is bad.

I can give you many reasons why your husband loves you and I only know you here. You are helpful, compassionate and incredibly kind. I think your husband chose a wonderful partner when he picked you as his wife!
 
Thanks @Calliecake @OboeGal and @Tekate. You are all very kind and strong women, and I'm happy I found people who understand these issues. It's hard, but I know it gets easier with both time and therapy. I wish you ladies all the best, and hope that all of us who are upset by recent events can find healing and hope. Let's hope that this awful feeling motivates people to vote, speak up, and be strong.
 
I understand the bold all too well (didn't marry the assh---, but certainly dated all the types you mentioned above). I am ashamed to say that I'm honestly sometimes more comfortable with romantic partners that treat me like sh-t, because it makes sense. I don't understand why DH loves me or stays. Especially on bad days.

Aww I do! I may not know you well (or very much at all) but you have been one of the most welcoming, patient and lovely people on this forum! I think you are tops from just exchanging posts with you online so I can imagine how awesome you must be in real life!!!!!!!!
 
Okay, which programs do you mean? I think I had it easier than today because it was easier to get interest free loans, FHA home loans were plentiful, there was way more compassion. Programs for minorities have been declining since Clinton slashed welfare. DeVos wants college kids to pay higher interest rates than normal loans.. I hope you will post why you think there is more opportunity for minorities today.
Good for him, b/c welfare will only keep the able body living in poverty forever.
 
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