What do you think of this tourmaline?

[Odyssey44]

I do not trust my eye completely yet and you all have been eagle eyed in finding windows and bowties, so I wanted to run a stone by you that I want to buy. What do you think? It is untreated and just over 7 cts. Also, what kind of price is reasonable?

 

[VividRed]

Looks like a typical tourmaline that shifts in different lighting conditions. Brilliance is good, cut is good, color a matter of taste. I personally don’t like when gems shift too much, others love that.

Importantly, do you like it? What are you looking for?

 

[Odyssey44]

I don't really like the incandescent lighting color, but I love, love, love the outdoor color and like the other colors. I did not realize tourmalines were known for shifting color. Is this always the case? I have been looking for a pink tourmaline because the pure, medium pink of the outdoor shot is exactly what I want. I don't know of another stone that has that kind of color--intense but not too peach, not too purple, not red, at a price that is not going to be over 10k for the size.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Nice native cutting... I bet she'll be quite brilliant in person. Great size too. Like @VividRed, I am not a big fan of color shifting gems (just because my OCD likes consistency). But it's certainly not a detraction (for some, it's an incentive), and I like every color it's showing. You have sort of varying padparadscha shades under indoor lighting, and then a truer carnation pink in daylight. Pink tourmaline is infamous for shifting. With regard to the price, I'm 99% certain I know the stone, and I'd say the price is within the realm of what you'd expect. Not a bargain, per se, but not exorbitant. Good luck!

 

[Odyssey44]

Truthfully, I prefer non-color shifting too. I like to carefully choose my colors! But I do want a pink tourmaline because at their best, they make me swoon. That outdoor lighting makes me swoon for sure. A larger trillion has been tough to find though. Thanks for the help. And why am I not surprised to hear you say you know the stone!?!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Truthfully, I prefer non-color shifting too. I like to carefully choose my colors! But I do want a pink tourmaline because at their best, they make me swoon. That outdoor lighting makes me swoon for sure. A larger trillion has been tough to find though. Thanks for the help. And why am I not surprised to hear you say you know the stone!?!

Yeah, it's just the nature of pink tourmaline... I love them too!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

It looks stunning to me, but I’m no expert.

 

[Odyssey44]

Thank you Dreamer! I welcome all opinions here!!

 

[VividRed]

The more I look at it, the more I think it’s quite nice. And the color flashes must be great in person.

May we ask what the price is? My guess would be 2’500$ but truth be told, I have no idea what tourmaline goes for

 

[Autumn in New England]

The more I look at it, the more I think it’s quite nice. And the color flashes must be great in person.

May we ask what the price is? My guess would be 2’500$ but truth be told, I have no idea what tourmaline goes for

It's a bit more (if it's the one I think it is). But I'll let OP answer more directly. It looks spectacular in the vendor photos (again, if I'm looking at the right one!).

 

[Odyssey44]

Yes, Autumn in NE has it right--it is a bit more. 24% more. I am rather unhappy because this was advertised as having no treatment. Yet, when I specifically asked I was told it was heated! I much prefer unheated. I don't know what to think of heated tourmaline. Once I decide what to do, I will reveal something about the vendor being who you think it is while also being not who you think it is, Autumn. (At least if I am thinking correctly about who you are thinking ) Oh, also I was told when asked that this is precision cut.

I should say I can get something custom cut (my first foray into that world) for the same or not much more. I am not sure I about that either, because I really need that pink color, and it seems there are no guarantees that rough will become the color I want/need. I am driving myself a bit crazy going back and forth.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes, Autumn in NE has it right--it is a bit more. 24% more. I am rather unhappy because this was advertised as having no treatment. Yet, when I specifically asked I was told it was heated! I much prefer unheated. I don't know what to think of heated tourmaline.

Tourmaline is tricky, because it is often impossible for labs to determine whether it's heated or not. I see that the larger vendor (of the two who have it listed) is saying "no treatment." I would feel comfortable with that assessment, even if we'll probably never be 100%. They tend to err on the side of caution when mentioning treatments. I am friendly with the senior buyer there. The smaller seller probably isn't the best person to ask (and he'll tell you that himself), because it's not technically his inventory. I've purchased from both. So I wouldn't worry too much about the treatment. If you're buying pink tourmaline, you'll never really be absolutely certain. Of course, that is if we're talking about the same gem! Which leads me to my next response...

Once I decide what to do, I will reveal something about the vendor being who you think it is while also being not who you think it is, Autumn. (At least if I am thinking correctly about who you are thinking )

lol! You can't be too careful about divulging specs... we all know there are snipers lurking about.

Oh, also I was told when asked that this is precision cut.

It looks really phenomenal in the vendor's photos.

I should say I can get something custom cut (my first foray into that world) for the same or not much more. I am not sure I about that either, because I really need that pink color, and it seems there are no guarantees that rough will become the color I want/need. I am driving myself a bit crazy going back and forth.

I have seen folks here who choose their rough from lapidaries, for example - Jeff White, and the stone turns out spectacularly! I, on the other hand, have never felt comfortable chancing it. There are too many variables with transparent gems, and I don't have a good enough eye for it. I mean, I've cut opaque cabochons myself... that's different. And it's often way less expensive material. Anyway, keep us posted! I'm invested now.

 

[Odyssey44]

Tourmaline is tricky, because it is often impossible for labs to determine whether it's heated or not. I see that the larger vendor (of the two who have it listed) is saying "no treatment."

Hmm..I am seeing them saying Heat. Are you sure?

I would feel comfortable with that assessment, even if we'll probably never be 100%. They tend to err on the side of caution when mentioning treatments. I am friendly with the senior buyer there. The smaller seller probably isn't the best person to ask (and he'll tell you that himself), because it's not technically his inventory. I've purchased from both.

Oh I think then you already know the secret! Is it typical that the larger vendor is so much more expensive? I would have thought it would have been the exact opposite way around!

lol! You can't be too careful about divulging specs... we all know there are snipers lurking about.

Oh my gosh I have read the horror stories! I would be so aggravated after doing all the work.

It looks really phenomenal in the vendor's photos.

It looks phenomenal in almost every photo!

I have seen folks here who choose their rough from lapidaries, for example - Jeff White, and the stone turns out spectacularly! I, on the other hand, have never felt comfortable chancing it. There are too many variables with transparent gems, and I don't have a good enough eye for it.

This exactly! I am terrible at imagining the finished gem color from the rough or from words. Plus what if there is an inclusion I can't stand?

I mean, I've cut opaque cabochons myself... that's different. And it's often way less expensive material. Anyway, keep us posted! I'm invested now.

How nice!! I will!!

 

[fredflintstone]

I do not trust my eye completely yet and you all have been eagle eyed in finding windows and bowties, so I wanted to run a stone by you that I want to buy. What do you think? It is untreated and just over 7 cts. Also, what kind of price is reasonable?

Is it an Afghanistan Tourmaline?

Afghanistan Tourmalines in pink, hot pink and Rubellite do not hold their color in most cases. Most cases are heated or irradiated. Look for African material which holds its color much better in pink, hot pink and Rubellite.

 

[Odyssey44]

Is it an Afghanistan Tourmaline?

Afghanistan Tourmalines in pink, hot pink and Rubellite do not hold their color in most cases. Most cases are heated or irradiated. Look for African material which holds its color much better in pink, hot pink and Rubellite.

This is good info. Just checked and it is African.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hmm..I am seeing them saying Heat. Are you sure?

Oh I think then you already know the secret! Is it typical that the larger vendor is so much more expensive? I would have thought it would have been the exact opposite way around!

Oh my gosh I have read the horror stories! I would be so aggravated after doing all the work.

It looks phenomenal in almost every photo!

This exactly! I am terrible at imagining the finished gem color from the rough or from words. Plus what if there is an inclusion I can't stand?

How nice!! I will!!

It's still highly possible I'm looking at the wrong gem. lol But I'd rather that be the case than someone buy it out from under you. Yeah, with the larger vendor, they likely "need" to make a higher profit than the little guy. And they often run sales, so they want some room to discount their inventory.

So true... worrying about unexpected inclusions is my second concern. My main one is how much different color looks once a rough crystal is cut. So much saturation can be lost, and then if it's cut on a certain plane, it can look like a different hue altogether. My OCD would never!

I'm really interested to see what you ultimately decide. If you're looking at such fine (big!) stones, I'm sure this will be a special project.

 

[Odyssey44]

We are very similar with being picky about color/looks/inclusions we were not anticipating! I am always amazed when people get their stone back, not quite what they were expecting and it is no big deal for them. I'm jealous--they probably have an easier life!
I hope it will be special--it has been in my mind for way too long and I am pushing myself now to get it done!

 

[fredflintstone]

This is good info. Just checked and it is African.

Dealers have been known to say a stone's origin is from somewhere else than its true origin. Not because they are all dishonest but that they want to sale their stones or just don't know, and though other than Paraiba Tourmaline, origin has not been a major issue with Tourmaline.

Not saying this stone is not from Africa but I would be skeptical.

I don't know if any of the members here have noticed, but in the last two or three years red and hot pink Afghanistan Tourmaline is everywhere, when before it was rarely seen. Rumor has it amongst some of my good friends in Thailand that work for major labs there that there is a new kind of treatment on Afghanistan hot pink and red Tourmaline. Many of these stones will turn a brownish orange under certain lighting.

Buyer beware.

 

[Odyssey44]

Dealers have been known to say a stone's origin is from somewhere else than its true origin. Not because they are all dishonest but that they want to sale their stones or just don't know, and though other than Paraiba Tourmaline, origin has not been a major issue with Tourmaline.

Not saying this stone is not from Africa but I would be skeptical.

I don't know how to verify that a tourmaline is from Africa. It specifically says Nigeria, but I would not have any idea how to verify that.

Rumor has it amongst some of my good friends in Thailand that work for major labs there that there is a new kind of treatment on Afghanistan hot pink and red Tourmaline. Many of these stones will turn a brownish orange under certain lighting.

Is this color like the picture I posted of the tourmaline under incandescent lighting?

 

[fredflintstone]

I don't know how to verify that a tourmaline is from Africa. It specifically says Nigeria, but I would not have any idea how to verify that.


Is this color like the picture I posted of the tourmaline under incandescent lighting?

To be honest, I have never had a pink or red Tourmaline from Nigeria turn brownish orange, but I was buying the bulk of Nigerian Tourmaline to sale in the 90's and 2000's. All held their color. This was before Afghanistan Tourmaline gained so much popularity and certainly before the hot pinks and reds showed up from Afghanistan.

Yes, to more or a less of degree Afghanistan Tourmaline hot pink and red turn the color of your incandescent picture.

 

[Odyssey44]

Oh boy.

 

[Autumn in New England]

OP, the stone in question is a medium pink... what I consider a classic tourmaline shade This is a hot pink...



That being said, yes, many of the hot pink and red (rubellite) tourmalines are heated and/or irradiated.

I am friendly with a vendor who is located in Kenya (Antony of The Rare Gemstone Company). He travels right to the mines to procure his Nigerian tourmaline. The medium pinks can and do indeed color shift.

So if you're truly interested in the subject stone (or other pink tourmaline from Nigeria or otherwise), I wouldn't panic. Will we know for certain if they're heated? Other than taking a trusted vendor's word for it, no. But it is very unlikely that shade of pink would be treated beyond heat.

Just a different POV... hope this helps.

 

[Odyssey44]

Thanks so much Autumn! Yes, it helps a lot.
I am waiting a bit until I speak to one more gem cutter who is indisposed for the next week but who may have suitable rough. So, as you said, to be continued!

 

[fredflintstone]

While Tourmaline from Nigeria can look more or less vivid pink/red in different lighting, it never looks brownish orange in my 40 years of experience as a former dealer.

I can promise you that, but I cannot promise you that other tourmalines of that color do, especially Afghanistan.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks so much Autumn! Yes, it helps a lot.
I am waiting a bit until I speak to one more gem cutter who is indisposed for the next week but who may have suitable rough. So, as you said, to be continued!

I look forward to seeing the end result!