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What do you think of this Princess?

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Skitch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
7
Princess Cut

Carats: 0.75
Dimensions: 5.12x5.11x3.54
Color: G
Clarity: VVS2
Depth: 69.3%
Table: 72%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None

Crown Height: 8.3%
Crown Angle: 32.3 Degrees
Pavillion: 43.1%
Pavillion Angle: 41.4 Degrees

This diamond is for an engagement ring that I am planning. I can''t see it obviously since I am buying it online, but I would imagine that some expert somewhere could tell me that at least it looks good by the numbers? Will it have fire and sparkle?
 

Charmed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
112
I love the fact that this princess it a perfect square!!!! I will bump this for you!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Is the pavilion really SO shallow? It should be more ~ 52 to 60%... Also, try to get a stone with a 10% or higher crown height.
On fancy shapes you cannot rely only on #'s so you'd better ask more tests as idealscope, bscope report, etc...
 

Skitch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
7
Is the pavillion shallow? Is it possible to get a square princess with that weight, color, and l:w ratio for $2500 MAX? I've looked on goodoldgold.com, whiteflash.com, and others and I can't find anything aimilar for less than $3000.
 

Skitch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
7
I checked the AGA chart for a princess cut (http://www.gemappraisers.com/chrt4.htm) and by the info that I gave it says it's a class 2A cut, which I thought was pretty good.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Yes, but the pavilion is way too shallow. Maybe it's a sarin error. As I told you, it should be more about 50-60%.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Hi Skitch. What's the girdle thickness on the stone?

What Giangi's saying is that the numbers don't add up. A 43.1% pavilion depth plus and 8.3% crown height adds up to 51.4%. That leaves a 17.9% difference between those figures and the total depth (69.3%).

The only thing that would account for that is either an incorrect pavilion depth figure (more likely to be 53.1 than 43.1), or a girdle the size of Interstate 75.

If it is an extremely thick girdle, I would shy away from the stone. If the pavilion depth is more like 53.1%, then it sounds like it's probably a 2A stone like you state. Some of those can be quite pretty, some can be a little plain. On the good side, it's probably not ugly.

Truthfully, it's tough to tell princess cuts "by the numbers". The key ingredient is the relationship between the crown and pavilion angles, which are six in number on a princess cut, all oriented at a different angle.

Is there anyway the vendor can give you an IdealScope photo of the stone? That would take out a lot of the guesswork. Barring that, your next best bet would be to have an independent gemologist appraiser review the stone before finalizing the sale.

Princess cuts are usually deep, low crown - wide table stones that are heavy on white light return (brilliance) and light on colored light return (fire).
To the connoiseur, the closer you can get the crown height to 10% (or above), and the closer you can get the depth to table relationship to be 1 to 1, or with the depth% greater than the table%, the better performing the stone usually is.

This is not to say that this stone might not be a great performer. It could be. But it's really impossible for us to give you reliable advice without optical results from instruments like the BrillianceScope or IdealScope.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Exactly what I meant. This stone is warped
.
Why do you Rich always say things better than I do?
Maybe cause you're american and I'm not?
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Oh I see. (or I can say: capisco!)

Have you ever been to Italy, Rich?
 

Skitch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
7
Ok, Giangi, enough with the thread-jacking please.


Rich, It could be a typo. I wasn't given the full sarin on it, only the information I asked for. The girdle is very thin to medium. It is an indentured natural, which is why the girdle is very thin I have been told. I bought the stone from DCD and Jim @ DCD said, "there shouldn't be any reason why this stone wouldn't be a fireball." I've been talking with StevL about an appraisal. Hopefully he can give me an IdealScope image of it along with heaps of other information. Unfortunately, DCD doesn't have a very accomodating return policy (7 days from receiving the stone) if it turns out that I don't like the stone. However, I hope that won't be the case.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
I'm sorry.


Be sure to check the real pavilion depth.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
That's good the girdle is thin to medium, Skitch. I've appraised a couple DCD princess cuts, and they stacked up very well. StevL will do a good job for you, so you've got nothing to worry about. If it doesn't stack up to your satisfaction, you're only out a few days and a few dollars.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144
HA HAAAAAAAAAA.......very funny, Rich.

(or....as funny as it can be to an American-Italian who also REQUIRES hands to speak!)
 

Skitch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
7
I got the diamond today. It told me the pavillion height in the GIA report and it says it's 43.1%.
But my soon to be fiance and I both like it. *shrugs* We'll see what StevL says about it.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
You're problem here is that you are getting Sarin results (it seems) from the cheapest Sarin called the Brilliant Eye). The more common (and also more expensive) Sarins and the OGI give pavilion angles and depth we are all more familar with. The angles measured on machines like what we have here are the pavilion angles that run from the side of the stone midway down to the culet. The Sarin Brilliant Eye measures the pavilion angle from the point down to the culet (as opposed to the side to the culet). Those angles I refer to as Pavilion Angle "X" as it cover the 4 pavilion mains making up the X we see at the bottom of the pavilion and runs point to point.

Those angles are COMPLETELY different. Here is a diamond we had sold in the past featuring the measurement taken by the Sarin Brilliant Eye and the OGI.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess__92ct_e_vvs1.htm

Note the OGI states pavilion angles of 58.8' and pavilion depth of 57.8%.

The Sarin Brilliant Eye states pavilion angles of 39.4' and pavilion depth of 39.9%.

Which is right? Both of them. This is one reason why purchasing princess cut by the numbers is almost impossible. And no offense to Jim and DCD but he has no basis upon which to make a judgement whether a stone is a "fireball" or not without seeing it and performing some kind of optical analysis on it perhaps an IdealScope image at least.

If you look under the Sarin Brilliant Eye analysis you'll see 2 more graphics which I generated via the OGI. One shows the pavilion angles from the side, and the other with angle X. Using THOSE angles the finest stones I have run into are those with 38.x - 40 degrees coupled with crown angles around 40 degrees (& crown height being greater than 10%).

Steve will show you no nonsense under the FireScope but with an 8% crown and pavilion angles along the 41.4' X ... don't hold your breath. You also have a table which is greater than you're total depth which is boo boo #1. But then again ... I'm anal.


Peace,
Rhino
 
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