What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[arkieb1]

Today’s press briefing was something to see. Trump acted unhinged. It’s embarrassing to watch a US President have so little self control. He thinks he is King.

I saw the first part where it was little more than propaganda to defend the "Trump show"....

 

[Karl_K]

The way the supreme court has applied state vs federal power the president can order a state open under federal law and the governor can order it closed under state law.
Unless a federal court rules that the federal law superceeds the state law which has been allowed with some laws at times the state would be in effect closed.
It works the same way that weed can be legal in the state but illegal at the federal level.

 

[1ofakind]

I'm an Aussie I actually had NO idea which side of politics he was on, I did see the poor guy asking Trumps administration for more ventilators only to be denied.... Our government in Australia is conservative, I didn't vote for them, they are on your side of politics and they have done an awesome intelligent job at containing it compared to the US. So your point is moot.

Except that N.Y. did get ventilators, thousands of ventilators though not as many as requested. They got temporary hospital facilities and staff to run them. They got a huge hospital ship (thankfully most of those additional hospital facilities are largely unused at this time). Cuomo and some other governors asked for more than could be supplied. Still other governors asked for more reasonable amounts and recieved closer or all of their requests The shortage isn’t in NY or even the US...it’s global. Cuomo was warned years ago that his state was lacking ventilators and equipment to handle just this situation and he did little to remedy that situation. The federal government was similarly unprepared. I don’t know if any states were better prepared regardless of the political leadership. I suspect not as our states have become very dependent on the federal government. That may be something that changes after this, at least in respect to emergency stockpiles.

 

[AGBF]

The language that has been used by some of the politicians, especially Donald Trump, has not been very precise. No one has actually defined what a "closed" state or an "open" state is. This imprecise use of language had northeastern governors scratching their heads when, after they had already ordered residents of their own states to remain at home unless they were essential workers, Donald Trump suddenly announced a plan for a "quarantine" of the New York area (only to rescind it a few hours later). The CDC can quarantine individuals who are a threat to the public health, but not an entire region of the country.

The governors who ordered residents of their states to stay home can rescind those orders if they wish, but they cannot compel people to leave their homes if they are too fearful to do so.

Since Donald Trump didn't order anything, I don't see what he can rescind. He cannot compel anyone to leave his home, either. So talk of his "opening" the country is just silly.

The way the supreme court has applied state vs federal power the president can order a state open under federal law and the governor can order it closed under state law.
Unless a federal court rules that the federal law superceeds the state law which has been allowed with

some laws at times the state would be in effect closed.
It works the same way that weed can be legal in the state but illegal at the federal level.

 

[MollyMalone]

Trump banned Chinese flights from China in late Jan. but of course the left "yell racist"!.

When you made the same claim last month, I observed that both prongs of it were mistaken. Trump did not ban, is not prohibiting. flights from China from landing in the US. And the Executive Order at issue did not meet with any responding denunciation of racism from, e.g., Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or other notables on the left. Here's my post #44 about that:

What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

Urgh https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-health-agency-to-classify-coronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM

www.pricescope.com

This claim hasn't gained credibility in the past 4+ weeks. In fact, it's been ascertained that, as of the end of March, almost 40,000 people entered the US on direct flights from China since the so-called "ban" took effect:

430,000 People Have Traveled From China to U.S. Since Coronavirus Surfaced (Published 2020)

There were 1,300 direct flights to 17 cities before President Trump’s travel restrictions. Since then, nearly 40,000 Americans and other authorized travelers have made the trip, some this past week and many with spotty screening.

www.nytimes.com

ETA: There were tweets that condemned another one of Trump's Executive Orders issued at the end of January, the one that expanded the "Muslim ban" to those from six African countries. That it included Kenya seemed especially bizarre to many since Kenya is one of Africa's most pro-American nations & the two countries have enjoyed generally warm relations for the past 50+ years and up through the current administration, which has this page on the current Department of State website:

U.S. Relations With Kenya - United States Department of State

More information about Kenya is available on the Kenya Page and from other Department of State publications and other sources listed at the end of this fact sheet. U.S.-KENYA RELATIONS The United States established diplomatic relations with Kenya in 1964, following its December 1963 independence...

www.state.gov

I have seen some pundits/commentators on the right of our political spectrum point to those tweets as supposed evidence of how leftists wrongfully criticized Trump's Executive Order re China flights -- even when a tweet they post as "proof" specifically refers to Africa. But I'd sure like to think that you yourself are not purposefully misleading people.

 

[Dancing Fire]

No I don't believe that only that many people in China died but I do believe they enforced a complete lockdown in places like Wuhan for 60 days because an Aussie journalist was there and was allowed to report on it.

Now go ask the Aussie journalist to investigate how this virus got started and see how far he'll gets.

 

[Dancing Fire]

All that is similar to how Chinese politicians behave. This is the vibe Trump gives a lot of us, even if you are worshipping him as a hero. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer, but I can't recall reading a single post where you have criticized Trump.

And I can't recall a single post from any left wingers here who praised Trump.

 

[arkieb1]

Now go ask the Aussie journalist to investigate how this virus got started and see how far he'll gets.

Dude, scientists with far more degrees than me cannot determine how it started. The Chinese authorities may not know how it actually started, has that occurred to you? We had one of these originate in Australia 15 mins away from where I live a few years ago, far more deadly than COVID - 19 but luckily for mankind far far less contagious. It's called the "Hendra Virus" look it up. It started with Bats that pooped, horsed ate grass or material with infected Bat poop and got critically ill and then gave it to humans. Most of the humans that got infected died a more horrible death than COVID - 19.

So if the Aussie example is anything to go by, it's a myth that all these viruses start with Chinese eating dogs, cats and other animals.

How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market?

It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?

www.theguardian.com

I also want to add that when my husband had a job that required a lot of travel we were served the local delicacy in Vanuatu which happened to be flying fox or Bat which we both wanted to be polite and tried. Bats are riddled with really nasty diseases every vet and animal expert knows that. The point is it's also a myth that just Chinese eat "other" animals, so does much of the non Western population....

 

[Dancing Fire]

Dude, scientists with far more degrees than me cannot determine how it started. The Chinese authorities may not know how it actually started, has that occurred to you?

All it ever occur to me is "never to believe the CCP"

Ask the Aussie journalist to investigate the missing Dr.
and chinese journalists.

 

[NonieMarie]

All it ever occur to me is "never to believe the CCP"

Ask the Aussie journalist to investigate the missing Dr.
and chinese journalists.

Deflect, deflect, deflect!
The briefing today was an embarrassment. It started with a cherry picked propaganda film, we paid for and will be used as a Trump election ad. The whole month of Feb was missing, 29 days. He kept harping about supposed stopping of flights from China. You know what the ******* was doing in Feb? He was preaching to his followers about how the Coronavirus was no worse than the flu and was going away. Kudos to the 2 female reporters that did not let him get away with his b.s. If you haven't seen it check it out on YouTube. They have big brass ovaries!

 

[MollyMalone]

The way the supreme court has applied state vs federal power the president can order a state open under federal law and the governor can order it closed under state law.
Unless a federal court rules that the federal law superceeds the state law which has been allowed with some laws at times the state would be in effect closed.
It works the same way that weed can be legal in the state but illegal at the federal level.

I'm thinking the Supreme Court's decision in Gonzales v Reich, the 1995 medical marijuana case,

Gonzales v. Raich, 545 US 1 - Supreme Court 2005 - Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

isn't a good barometer of how the Court would view a Presidential order directing the states to "open." The question before the Court in Reich was whether the federal Controlled Substances Act exceeded the power invested in Congress by the U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause -- insofar as the Act prohibits the production and possession of MJ wholly within a state. By a 5-1-3 decision, the Court held that the challenged provisions of the Act were not an impermissible exercise of Congress's Commerce Clause authority (4 Justices agreed with Justice Stevens' opinion, Justice Scalia concurred with the outcome but reached that conclusion via a somewhat different analysis; dissenting Justices O'Connor and Thomas & Chief Justice Rehnquist would have invalidated the Act as applied to those who grow and use marijuana in accordance with their state's medical marijuana statues).

Our federal Constitution, however, does not give the President any authority to "regulate commerce ... among the several states;" that authority is reserved to Congress alone. Compare U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 8 (re Congressional powers)

Article I

www.law.cornell.edu

with Article II, section 2 (setting forth the powers of the President):

Article II

www.law.cornell.edu

And there sure as hell isn't anything in the Constitution that imbues the President with the "total" authority that Trump has now claimed is his, simply because he is the President. I think I heard the bones of my ancestors who were officers in the Revolutionary War rattle with furious agitation in their Boston graves after that declaration from Trump!

 

[missy]

Dude, scientists with far more degrees than me cannot determine how it started.

Just to add some levity for a moment if that's OK.

 

[House Cat]

Which experts? the useless bureaucrats that have totally dropped the ball every time so far?

There isn’t a scientist or doctor in this bunch. This scares me to death. I consider the purse designer and her husband to be pretty useless.

 

[missy]

There isn’t a scientist or doctor in this bunch. This scares me to death. I consider the purse designer and her husband to be pretty useless.

Terrifying. I am hoping they are taking advice from medical professionals/scientists and not just operating in their own little vacuum. As with everything political it is a game but this time so many lives are at stake.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/13/trump-reopen-economy-conservative-groups-coronavirus/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/reopening-us-economy-by-may-1-may-be-unrealistic-say-experts-including-some-within-trump-administration/2020/04/12/15c922e4-7cde-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html

 

[voce]

And I can't recall a single post from any left wingers here who praised Trump.

How is this relevant? Do you base your actions on what the left wingers do and say? See what they do, and then do the opposite?

Just FYI I don't consider myself a left winger. I'm conservative on some issues, liberal on other issues. I don't think Cuomo has done everything right, but it's up to the New Yorkers to evaluate how he's doing, since I have no skin in the game to really evaluate him overall. Just not able to have the energy to follow everything, what with me still working and everything.

 

[missy]

I don't think Cuomo has done everything right, but it's up to the New Yorkers to evaluate how he's doing,

I think he is doing the best he can. He made mistakes in the beginning but moving forward I think he is doing a decent job.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I think he is doing the best he can. He made mistakes in the beginning but moving forward I think he is doing a decent job.

I think the key is being able to reflect and do better.

Our PM was a joke during the bushfires. Seriously I had so much scorn for the man. But he has shaped up with Covid19 that's for sure!

It is actually very inspiring how someone who seemed so hopeless could actually rise up!

 

[missy]

I think the key is being able to reflect and do better.

Our PM was a joke during the bushfires. Seriously I had so much scorn for the man. But he has shaped up with Covid19 that's for sure!

It is actually very inspiring how someone who seemed so hopeless could actually rise up!

I agree!

 

[AGBF]

And there sure as hell isn't anything in the Constitution that imbues the President with the "total" authority that Trump has now claimed is his, simply because he is the President.

Since Trump became president I discovered MSNBC and I now know many of the regular commentators and guests on that station. Sometimes I sit glued to the television for hours. (And I am a person who totally gave up television when my daughter was born. My husband and I completely unplugged except for the wedding of Prince Charles to Lady Diana Spencer and the funeral of Yitzhak Rabin... until 9/11.)

This morning two men whom I "know" well, Ron Klain and Jeremy Bash were interviewed about Donald Trump's claims and the Constitution. In the interview with Brian Williams I learned a couple of things I had not known about the men: both got their law degrees from Harvard Law School (well, that's pretty common for big shots in the District). Both also took Constitutional Law with professor Lawrence Tribe. And (this should be no surprise) both men said Donald Trump was completely wrong. I believe it was Brian Williams who said that all one had to take was middle school civics to know he was wrong.

 

[redwood66]

This thread has taken a turn that is giving me mixed signals. There was plenty of discussion of how states should not open on their own but now calling Trump a dictator for saying he is the only one who can open things up. No Trump cannot tell the states to open or to stayed closed. Saying so makes him look like an idiot which is how he looks whenever he opens his yap on the fly.

What do you want? Other than the obvious - Trump not as POTUS.

 

[missy]

This thread has taken a turn that is giving me mixed signals. There was plenty of discussion of how states should not open on their own but now calling Trump a dictator for saying he is the only one who can open things up. No Trump cannot tell the states to open or to stayed closed. Saying so makes him look like an idiot which is how he looks whenever he opens his yap on the fly.

What do you want? Other than the obvious - Trump not as POTUS.

I agree. Trump needs to keep his mouth closed and let the experts do their job.

 

[redwood66]

I agree. Trump needs to keep his mouth closed and let the experts do their job.

Well he is the POTUS though whether people like it or not.

 

[missy]

Well he is the POTUS though whether people like it or not.

Yes but a wise man would know enough to know what he doesn’t know and let the experts do their job. Properly.

 

[redwood66]

Yes but a wise man would know enough to know what he doesn’t know and let the experts do their job. Properly.

But the decisions lie with him, not these experts. My comment was more to do with the mixed signals anyway.

 

[House Cat]

This thread has taken a turn that is giving me mixed signals. There was plenty of discussion of how states should not open on their own but now calling Trump a dictator for saying he is the only one who can open things up. No Trump cannot tell the states to open or to stayed closed. Saying so makes him look like an idiot which is how he looks whenever he opens his yap on the fly.

What do you want? Other than the obvious - Trump not as POTUS.

Donald Trump: 'When somebody is president of the United States, the authority is total' – video

US president Donald Trump has claimed he has ‘total authority’ to supersede decisions made by state governors to ease social restrictions during the coronavirus pandemic

www.theguardian.com

Did you see this yesterday?

 

[missy]

But the decisions lie with him, not these experts. My comment was more to do with the mixed signals anyway.

Red, he is not an expert. He needs to listen to the experts in order to make the best choices. Cmon. Do you really think he’s capable of making these decisions without input from the experts? What are we arguing about here?

 

[redwood66]

Donald Trump: 'When somebody is president of the United States, the authority is total' – video

US president Donald Trump has claimed he has ‘total authority’ to supersede decisions made by state governors to ease social restrictions during the coronavirus pandemic

www.theguardian.com

Did you see this yesterday?

Of course I did. You couldn't gather that from my post?

 

[missy]

Of course I did. You couldn't gather that from my post?

I think you are giving mixed signals. Can we agree Trump should listen to those wiser than him re the pandemic before making a decision that could hurt so many people?

 

[redwood66]

Red, he is not an expert. He needs to listen to the experts in order to make the best choices. Cmon. Do you really think he’s capable of making these decisions without input from the experts? What are we arguing about here?

That isn't my point. And I'm not arguing. You are one of the ones saying states shouldn't open on their own. So who makes that happen other than the FedGov?

 

[missy]

That isn't my point. And I'm not arguing. You are one of the ones saying states shouldn't open on their own. So who makes that happen other than the FedGov?

I like that seven of the NE states are combining forces to help with the decision when to reopen our states and how to do it.