What are the best LABs to use for sapphire cert?

[autumngems]

Considering a sapphire, what lab would you suggest to determine whether stone is heated, treated, origin of stone, also quality of stone?
Seller suggested local lab (not well known so won't use this) or GIA, AIGS, or Lotus. I know there are others as well but who is reliable, mostly used and reasonable in pricing?

 

[chrono]

Best lab that I would use to judge quality, treatment, and origin? AGL Full Prestige. However, I would only spring for that if it was a stone worth $$$$$. In all other cases, I only care about treatment. I am not so fussed on origin.

In terms of wanting to know treatment and origin, GIA, Gubelin, AGL, SSEF are top choices but not exactly cheap. No lab other than AGL Full Prestige will remark on the quality. I will only use AIGS for less expensive sapphires.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I agree with @chrono that the AGL full prestige report would be my #1 choice. I'm in the US, so it's very convenient. But I also really love Lotus, because they grade the stone's hue, tone, and saturation, which I find helpful. They're in Thailand though, and I hate sending my gems overseas!

 

[chrono]

But I also really love Lotus, because they grade the stone's hue, tone, and saturation,

This is good to know! Thank you. I hope more posters who have experience with Lotus will chime in.

 

[prs]

I purchased a 5.00ct heated, Ceylon sapphire at auction because it came with a Lotus cert. I knew Lotus were founded by Richard Hughes and had a great reputation in the Sapphire/Ruby community.




The pavilion on this stone was a typical native cut and I subsequently had it recut to improve the brilliance and color uniformity. I then sent the 4.20ct stone to GIA. Their report confirmed the Ceylon origin and the heat treatment.





I don't know enough about sapphire color to say if the Lotus Cornflower Blue color designation is correct, but DW likes it, and that's what counts.

 

[Autumn in New England]

This is gorgeous, @prs! Too funny... I chose a very similar design for my sapphire. I'll have to share once it's finished. I'm glad you were pleased with Lotus too. DW is very lucky!!

 

[prs]

This is gorgeous, @prs! Too funny... I chose a very similar design for my sapphire. I'll have to share once it's finished. I'm glad you were pleased with Lotus too. DW is very lucky!!

Yes, please do show it to us, just as soon as it's ready!!!

 

[T L]

I’m not sure if Lotus has the advanced equipment to test for chemical enhancement, when regular diagnostic analysis cannot rule it out. Can someone confirm?

 

[zenzii]

What do you mean by chemical enhancement?

Does any of what Lotus are describing in their code descriptions sound like chemical enhancements?

 

[demantoidz]

I’m not sure if Lotus has the advanced equipment to test for chemical enhancement, when regular diagnostic analysis cannot rule it out. Can someone confirm?

Not sure exactly which specific equipment you are talking about but you can search the name of equipment on the site and see what comes up.
For example, searching for LIBS brings up this article

Gem Inclusion Pairs • Hyperion Siamese Twins

Paired images of gemstone inclusions, illustrating differences in treatments and lighting, particularly ruby, sapphire, spinel.

www.lotusgemology.com

And the last set of photos shows effects on a gem of a LIBS test vs a LA-ICPMS test. The photos are watermarked with Lotus and credited to Richard and E. Billie Hughes. Which means they had access to machines that can conduct these analyes. Not sure if this means it's part of their grading protocol.

 

[demantoidz]

What do you mean by chemical enhancement?

Does any of what Lotus are describing in their code descriptions sound like chemical enhancements?

I think TL is referring to advanced testing equipment such as equipment that can detect trace elements which can help in determining treatment. For example, in ruling out diffusion in a standard-heat-only sapphire.

 

[zenzii]

Does Lotus not mention these clearly on their site? I‘m confused. What does this mean then when they describe codes on their reports?

No Enhancements	Explanation	Market Frequency	General Stability, Care & Handling
No indications of heating/treatment	No treatment whatsoever has been detected in this gem.	Less common	Excellent; no special care required

Enhancement	Code	Purpose	Market Frequency	General Stability, Care & Handling
Heat	H	Improve color and/or clarity	Common	Excellent; no special care needed
Heat + Fissure Healing	H-FH	Improve color/clarity and heal fissures	Common	Excellent; no special care needed
Heat + Diffusion of external coloring agents	H-D	Improve color/clarity and/or add asterism	Less common	Good to fair; recutting may produce loss of color or star
Heat + Glass Cavity/Fissure Filling	H-GF*	Improve color/clarity and/or hide surface cavities	Less common	Good to fair; filler may deteriorate with time, causing change in appearance
Irradiation	IR	Add yellow color	Rare	Poor; fades with exposure to light
Fissure Filling with colorless Oil/resin	FF-O*	Improve clarity and color	Less common	Poor; filler may deteriorate with time, causing change in appearance
Fissure Filling with Dyed Filler	FF-DF*	Improve color and/or clarity	Less common	Poor; filler may deteriorate with time, causing change in appearance
Coating	C	Improve color	Rare	Poor; coating may scratch or rub off
Lead Glass-type Hybrid	LGH	Improve clarity and color	Common	Poor; filler may deteriorate with time, causing change in appearance and durability
Assembled Stone	AS	In most cases, fraud	Rare	Poor; glue may deteriorate with time, causing stone to fall apart
* Certain enhancements are rated for extent, on a 1–3 scale of Minor → Moderate → Significant.

 

[Frost]

I have to say I'm very surprised to see Lotus being questioned on this forum, I really thought most people on here (knowing a bit about stones) would know better.

To start with, most modern seminal works on corundum in these past two decades were written by R.H. i.e. Lotus - and the lab has consistently researched, documented and published info on sapphires from literally every last corner of the planet.

Of course beryllium is detectable. Be diffusion is not anywhere close to the scare it was back when it first appeared ages ago, I've written about all of this extensively on here a few years ago with plenty of explanations on how and why it is routinely detectable (and not to mention how rare these Be-treated stones actually are in practice!).

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hi there @T L... this is according to the lab:

Lotus Gemology is equipped with a full suite of modern gemological instruments, such as both gemological and research microscopes, photomicrography stations for both normal and ultraviolet photography, micro Raman spectroscopy and standard Raman analysis, UV-Vis-NIR and Fourier-Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR), and Energy Dispersive X-Ray Fluorescence (ED-XRF) and Laser-Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) for chemical analysis. A full set of standard gemological instruments is also employed.

 

[demantoidz]

I have to say I'm very surprised to see Lotus being questioned on this forum, I really thought most people on here (knowing a bit about stones) would know better.

To start with, most modern seminal works on corundum in these past two decades were written by R.H. i.e. Lotus - and the lab has consistently researched, documented and published info on sapphires from literally every last corner of the planet.

Of course beryllium is detectable. Be diffusion is not anywhere close to the scare it was back when it first appeared ages ago, I've written about all of this extensively on here a few years ago with plenty of explanations on how and why it is routinely detectable (and not to mention how rare these Be-treated stones actually are in practice!).

Questioning doesn't entail discrediting, but I can see how it could be taken that way.
From my perspective, it was about confirmation on what equipment a lab has, and how they determine xyz.
For example, I had seen GIA reports for natural pearls with some noting polished status and others not. I asked GIA how they determine whether natural pearls have been only superficially polished, or entirely reshaped.
Beryllium was just the first example that popped into my head. I did not know it was so readily and routinely detectable, so that is my bad.
Thanks for the info @Autumn in New England

 

[Autumn in New England]

I have to say I'm very surprised to see Lotus being questioned on this forum, I really thought most people on here (knowing a bit about stones) would know better.

To start with, most modern seminal works on corundum in these past two decades were written by R.H. i.e. Lotus - and the lab has consistently researched, documented and published info on sapphires from literally every last corner of the planet.

Agreed! Please see my response in post #14. I'm not referring to anyone in this thread (T L asked a legitimate question), but I too was surprised to see Lotus' credentials questioned elsewhere on this forum. I will mention again here what I said at that time... I can't imagine anyone I would trust more than Richard Hughes to examine and grade my gems!

 

[Frost]

Questioning doesn't entail discrediting, but I can see how it could be taken that way.
From my perspective, it was about confirmation on what equipment a lab has, and how they determine xyz.
For example, I had seen GIA reports for natural pearls with some noting polished status and others not. I asked GIA how they determine whether natural pearls have been only superficially polished, or entirely reshaped.
Beryllium was just the first example that popped into my head. I did not know it was so readily and routinely detectable, so that is my bad.
Thanks for the info @Autumn in New England

Oh, I merely meant that every decent lab I can think of has the usual FTIR/LIBS/UV-Vis trinity and is capable of detecting these standard enhancements nowadays. It's really not anything out of the ordinary and I meant that in a more general way than it probably came across as (the lab above was meant more like an example).

But of course questioning makes sense, that's the whole point of having discussions on here... And I'd even say a lot of good things have come from it over the years.

 

[T L]

I have to say I'm very surprised to see Lotus being questioned on this forum, I really thought most people on here (knowing a bit about stones) would know better.

Lotus is relatively new as far as I know in gem labs. As a collector for 30+ years, I often question things. No offense was meant to the lab or the Hughes family. Thank you for your detailed explanations.

 

[Frost]

Lotus is relatively new as far as I know in gem labs. As a collector for 30+ years, I often question things. No offense was meant to the lab or the Hughes family. Thank you for your detailed explanations.

I don't think anyone would have read you as having meant anything bad, @T L .

Skepticism is necessary survival skill for all of us involved in this, but if you Google around a bit more you find out that the person behind the lab has been working as a gemologist since the 1980s. So while the lab may be new, knowledge and experience aren't.

Anyway, I don't have any connections or even preferences for any particular lab in this case. I really did mean this more generally in the sense that maybe the forum should slowly begin to move along with the times on these things.
On a personal note, I relate to your old school views on most things simply because my views are the same - but when it comes to stuff like gemology and the trade/market, times do change. We all need to stay updated, whether you're a collector, dealer, jeweler, gemologist, hobbyist...

 

[demantoidz]

I don't think anyone would have read you as having meant anything bad, @T L .

Skepticism is necessary survival skill for all of us involved in this, but if you Google around a bit more you find out that the person behind the lab has been working as a gemologist since the 1980s. So while the lab may be new, knowledge and experience aren't.

Anyway, I don't have any connections or even preferences for any particular lab in this case. I really did mean this more generally in the sense that maybe the forum should slowly begin to move along with the times on these things.
On a personal note, I relate to your old school views on most things simply because my views are the same - but when it comes to stuff like gemology and the trade/market, times do change. We all need to stay updated, whether you're a collector, dealer, jeweler, gemologist, hobbyist...

I have been largely educated by this forum, many posts being a decade old or older.
So your point is well taken. Appreciate your point of view.

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't think anyone would have read you as having meant anything bad, @T L .

Skepticism is necessary survival skill for all of us involved in this, but if you Google around a bit more you find out that the person behind the lab has been working as a gemologist since the 1980s. So while the lab may be new, knowledge and experience aren't.

Anyway, I don't have any connections or even preferences for any particular lab in this case. I really did mean this more generally in the sense that maybe the forum should slowly begin to move along with the times on these things.
On a personal note, I relate to your old school views on most things simply because my views are the same - but when it comes to stuff like gemology and the trade/market, times do change. We all need to stay updated, whether you're a collector, dealer, jeweler, gemologist, hobbyist...

@Frost: thanks for your posts. I can reliably look forward to your posts being consistently balanced and informative. While I wholeheartedly agree that we need to move along with the times, some of us have had experiences that make it a bit more challenging to do so. Years ago, my first foray into "unheated, untreated" padparadscha territory from a reputable vendor at the time, landed me a diffused stone per the GIA lab report. Sigh. Vendor honored its return, and I still wistfully consider it one of the prettiest padparadschas I've ever seen. But it definitely left me feeling like beryllium was everywhere!

ETA: the smiley face is not meant to imply I think Be and other invasive treatments are awesome, but that this post is meant as friendly, not argumentative in the least, but an explanation as to why some of us old dogs perseverate on certain issues

 

[Autumn in New England]

What a disappointment, @minousbijoux! I think I remember that stone. Did you post about it here? I sure hope you found your dream pad eventually!!

P.S. I thought it was so cute how you went on to explain the purpose of your smiley face. You just never know what might be taken the wrong way!