We have had 1 good day in the market since Obama was elected

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:43 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM

Author: tradergirl

Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

Thank you. Obama is a guy who when campaigning was out every day blaming other people when things were going wrong. He may not technically be president yet, but what happens now IS on his watch. Where are his ideas? Where is the leadership?


To my original point - the markets dont like whats to come. We are pricing in some serious reductions in cash flows. Bush made them bad - but Obama''s policies are making them worse. And if he is going to modify some of them, he should be speaking to the people rather than let the market crash every day. I guess he''s too busy hiring Clinton retreads and being a typical politician.


But as you said, god forbid someone implies obama isnt perfect.

I hate to break it to you but someone who is president elect isn''t able to just jump in and start making policies before he''s in office...there''s a reason that there is a transition team. Because we need to get ready for the transition.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

The only thing I''m worried about is the terrible market combined with a democratic president and democratic congress--the parallels to FDR are frightening (not an FDR fan AT ALL here). Bottom line is that a bad market will only open the doors for more nationalization.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:23 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM
Author: tradergirl
Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.
You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

If you are so keen on facts: the Dow dipped to around 8000 end of October - BEFORE the elections. It went up again until November 4th, then has been going down again. So why did it go up by over 1000 pts between the end of October and Election day? Because the market ''knew'' that Obama and his Marxist policies was going to get elected??? Hm ...
Nobody is arguing that the markets have been taking a dive since Obama got elected. Arguing that there is a direct causal mechanism between the two is just baseless and pure speculation. If you want to believe it - so be it. And if it makes you feel happy - that is great too. Fact is also: Since I got my tooth pulled on election day the Dow has been going down. End of story. Please don''t confuse science with partisanship/ideology. Then again, science has been a dirty word in many GOP circles. Let''s ask Joe the Plumber to predict market trends.

Can you say with a staight face that if obama came out today and said he would not raise taxes yet and if he would do his best to help corp profits the market would not be impacted? If you honestly believe that, please let me know so I know what I''m dealing with.

Saying something on the campaign trail is one thing. Saying something that will be policy is another. Since Obama pulled ahead in the polls, the market went from pricing a recession into a depression. You may not believe one caused the other, but the people who control the price of stocks in this country do. I will take their word for it over yours.

No offense.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:43 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM

Author: tradergirl

Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

Thank you. Obama is a guy who when campaigning was out every day blaming other people when things were going wrong. He may not technically be president yet, but what happens now IS on his watch. Where are his ideas? Where is the leadership?


To my original point - the markets dont like whats to come. We are pricing in some serious reductions in cash flows. Bush made them bad - but Obama''s policies are making them worse. And if he is going to modify some of them, he should be speaking to the people rather than let the market crash every day. I guess he''s too busy hiring Clinton retreads and being a typical politician.


But as you said, god forbid someone implies obama isnt perfect.

I dislike almost everything Obama stands for and even I don''t agree with you.
I voted for McCain even though I liked him just a tiny bit more than Obama...
So what does that say about your argument?
At this point it is irrelevant who is president elect and who is president the damage is done but the reaction isn''t.
The recovery will take a decade once it hits bottom and no matter who is president it is going to hit bottom.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:54:01 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:35 PM

Author: neatfreak

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM

Author: tradergirl


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

You obviously don''t understand the difference between causation and correlation then. A LOT of things have happened in the world since he was elected but almost everything wasn''t caused by Obama being elected.

Well I do. And I speak to money managers every single day. What I hear from each of them is they ''fear'' that the policies that are to come are going to lower corporate profits. But hey, who cares if your portfolio is down 90% - you have free healthcare now.

Do you know how many people don''t even have a friggin "portfolio", much less health care in this country??? Too bad that some money managers are going to have to cut down on their private retreats and bonuses this year. I''ll shed a tear. And blame Obama out of solidarity. Man. This really is hopeless.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:54:04 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:43 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM

Author: tradergirl

Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

Thank you. Obama is a guy who when campaigning was out every day blaming other people when things were going wrong. He may not technically be president yet, but what happens now IS on his watch. Where are his ideas? Where is the leadership?


To my original point - the markets dont like whats to come. We are pricing in some serious reductions in cash flows. Bush made them bad - but Obama''s policies are making them worse. And if he is going to modify some of them, he should be speaking to the people rather than let the market crash every day. I guess he''s too busy hiring Clinton retreads and being a typical politician.


But as you said, god forbid someone implies obama isnt perfect.

I hate to break it to you but someone who is president elect isn''t able to just jump in and start making policies before he''s in office...there''s a reason that there is a transition team. Because we need to get ready for the transition.

He cant make policy but he can set expectations. Stock prices look forward 1-2 years.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:55:07 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
The only thing I''m worried about is the terrible market combined with a democratic president and democratic congress--the parallels to FDR are frightening (not an FDR fan AT ALL here). Bottom line is that a bad market will only open the doors for more nationalization.

It is already happening under a republican president.
No matter who was elected it was bound to happen.
It will be interesting times indeed.

 

[stone_seeker]

If the president's policies dont matter then why did Barack get elected?

Whatever. You cant win a political argument and I hope for everyone's sake Obama gets out of the bath house with clinton and starts to speak to the peolpe who hired him and acts like a leader. I dont care what kind of dog he's getting, or where his kids are going to school. I care if he's going to raise taxes, waste my money bailing out failing companies without strings, and kill my company's bottom line. If he is, then I need to lay off some more people today, buy more puts and short ETFs, and pray for the rest of us.

Good luck folks.

PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
If the president''s policies dont matter then why did Barack get elected?

Whatever. You cant win a political argument and I hope for everyone''s sake Obama gets out of the bath house with clinton and starts to speak to the peolpe who hired him and acts like a leader. I dont care what kind of dog he''s getting, or where his kids are going to school. I care if he''s going to raise taxes, waste my money bailing out failing companies without strings, and kill my company''s bottom line. If he is, then I need to lay off some more people today, buy more puts and short ETFs, and pray for the rest of us.

Good luck folks.

PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

Stone, just out of curiosity, how was your portfolio doing under the Clinton administration?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:23 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM
Author: tradergirl
Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.
You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

If you are so keen on facts: the Dow dipped to around 8000 end of October - BEFORE the elections. It went up again until November 4th, then has been going down again. So why did it go up by over 1000 pts between the end of October and Election day? Because the market ''knew'' that Obama and his Marxist policies was going to get elected??? Hm ...
Nobody is arguing that the markets have been taking a dive since Obama got elected. Arguing that there is a direct causal mechanism between the two is just baseless and pure speculation. If you want to believe it - so be it. And if it makes you feel happy - that is great too. Fact is also: Since I got my tooth pulled on election day the Dow has been going down. End of story. Please don''t confuse science with partisanship/ideology. Then again, science has been a dirty word in many GOP circles. Let''s ask Joe the Plumber to predict market trends.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:54:04 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 11/20/2008 3:51:43 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM

Author: tradergirl

Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

Thank you. Obama is a guy who when campaigning was out every day blaming other people when things were going wrong. He may not technically be president yet, but what happens now IS on his watch. Where are his ideas? Where is the leadership?


To my original point - the markets dont like whats to come. We are pricing in some serious reductions in cash flows. Bush made them bad - but Obama''s policies are making them worse. And if he is going to modify some of them, he should be speaking to the people rather than let the market crash every day. I guess he''s too busy hiring Clinton retreads and being a typical politician.


But as you said, god forbid someone implies obama isnt perfect.

I hate to break it to you but someone who is president elect isn''t able to just jump in and start making policies before he''s in office...there''s a reason that there is a transition team. Because we need to get ready for the transition.

Exactly. As he said, there''s only 1 prez at a time, much to Obama''s dismay, I''m sure. He has said he''s given suggestions, but that''s all he can do.

Here''s an article on why today didn''t go well. Oil dropping again, and fears on the auto bailout among other things. That''s not Obama''s fault. In fact, he''s calling for the bailout. This is just two examples of what''s driving this market, things happening now. It has nothing to do with Obama. And I''m not getting all defensive of him either, but let''s be fair. I simply don''t buy that he''s the cause of all this.

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSN02ELLSNA20081120

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks sold off at an accelerated speed late on Thursday as oil''s drop below $50 hit the energy sector and investors'' worries about the prospects for an automakers'' bailout increased fears of a deepening economic slump.

 

[luckystar112]

I just wanted to chime in again and say that in my earlier post I was not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. Half of the time I think strm, harriet, and other market gurus are speaking a foreign language.

I was just pointing out that if the market were doing well, MANY people would attribute that to our electing Obama. I don''t think that''s an unfair assessment. I was just wondering out loud, in a non-partisan way, why we (collectively) look at everything that occurs as justification for our opinions.

 

[tradergirl]

Stone Seeker: you and I talk to the same people. You are right and I''ll tell you, even though I covered, this market right on the verge of a leg down that you all don''t even want to think about. I am astounded about this. I did expect to see this but not until mid to late 2009.

And as far as the market during the Clinton administration? That was the stock market version of the housing bubble. You remember "monetizing eyeballs", the "new paradigm" and "pre-revenue IPOs?"

Actually we should blame this whole mess on Greenspan.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:20:02 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
If the president''s policies dont matter then why did Barack get elected?

Whatever. You cant win a political argument and I hope for everyone''s sake Obama gets out of the bath house with clinton and starts to speak to the peolpe who hired him and acts like a leader. I dont care what kind of dog he''s getting, or where his kids are going to school. I care if he''s going to raise taxes, waste my money bailing out failing companies without strings, and kill my company''s bottom line. If he is, then I need to lay off some more people today, buy more puts and short ETFs, and pray for the rest of us.

Good luck folks.

PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

Stone, just out of curiosity, how was your portfolio doing under the Clinton administration?

Hard to quantify since many of the companies that I invested in no longer exist but of course I made money at times and luckily got out before most went to zero. But if you recall the first 2 years werent great until the republican congress was elected. And Clinton was a proponent of free-trade. something Obama has spoken out against which is bearish for stocks.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

- Between the time McCain got the GOP nomination and the elections the Dow shed over 4000
points !!! OMG!

- The time during which McCain was ahead of Obama for the last time (09/12-09/17)saw the
Dow Jones plunge by 800 points!!! OMG!

- The day after McCain lost his last lead, the Dow shot up by 400 points!!! OMG!

Meaningful? Hell no. But that is the point my friends.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:40:47 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 4:20:02 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
If the president's policies dont matter then why did Barack get elected?

Whatever. You cant win a political argument and I hope for everyone's sake Obama gets out of the bath house with clinton and starts to speak to the peolpe who hired him and acts like a leader. I dont care what kind of dog he's getting, or where his kids are going to school. I care if he's going to raise taxes, waste my money bailing out failing companies without strings, and kill my company's bottom line. If he is, then I need to lay off some more people today, buy more puts and short ETFs, and pray for the rest of us.

Good luck folks.

PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

Stone, just out of curiosity, how was your portfolio doing under the Clinton administration?

Hard to quantify since many of the companies that I invested in no longer exist but of course I made money at times and luckily got out before most went to zero. But if you recall the first 2 years werent great until the republican congress was elected. And Clinton was a proponent of free-trade. something Obama has spoken out against which is bearish for stocks.

Well, I'm sure you'll agree that the economy in general was in MUCH better shape under Clinton. I guess I just don't understand why you're concerned that Obama is "hiring Clinton retreads." Some of those people must have had the right idea, right?

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:41:04 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

- Between the time McCain got the GOP nomination and the elections the Dow shed over 4000
points !!! OMG!

- The time during which McCain was ahead of Obama for the last time (09/12-09/17)saw the
Dow Jones plunge by 800 points!!! OMG!

- The day after McCain lost his last lead, the Dow shot up by 400 points!!! OMG!

Meaningful? Hell no. But that is the point my friends.

Yes it is. When mccain got the gop nom, intrade had his odds of winning at 24% (i just cheked). The only time we saw a spike was in sept when we had a few up days in the market. It was mostly sideway. As soon as obama pulled well ahead the market threw in the towel for the reasons I have stated in the original post.

But telling facts to hard core Obama fan boys is moot. Like telling someone there is no God.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:52:19 PM
Author: stone_seeker
But telling facts to hard core Obama fan boys is moot. Like telling someone there is no God.

Insulting. Personal. Attacks. C''mon Stoneseeker, can''t you do better? Is that all you have left?

 

[MaggieB]

Date: 11/20/2008 3:42:36 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 11/20/2008 3:31:04 PM
Author: tradergirl
Z: one hallmark of the Obama supporters I have seen throughout the year was the quick personal attack on anyone who dared question his holiness.


You can say what you want but da fax is da fax. The market has crashed since he was elected. End of story.

Quick personal attack? Kind of like when stone_seeker called rob an Obama fanboy and Strm Hugo Chavez for disagreeing with her? Something tells me stone_seeker isn''t an Obama supporter, so I guess this is a hallmark of McCain supporters as well!

Thank you Thing. (And while I''m at it, Zhu, Trill, Rob, Deco, Ellen, Swimmer, K, AGBF, Irish, darnit, I know I am forgetting people.) Since I''m getting married in about two weeks, I''m trying very hard not to get sucked in to all the negativity. You guys answer for me so often, and so much better, it has really helped!

I really just need to stay off the board.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:46:45 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 11/20/2008 4:40:47 PM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 11/20/2008 4:20:02 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 11/20/2008 4:12:07 PM
Author: stone_seeker
If the president's policies dont matter then why did Barack get elected?

Whatever. You cant win a political argument and I hope for everyone's sake Obama gets out of the bath house with clinton and starts to speak to the peolpe who hired him and acts like a leader. I dont care what kind of dog he's getting, or where his kids are going to school. I care if he's going to raise taxes, waste my money bailing out failing companies without strings, and kill my company's bottom line. If he is, then I need to lay off some more people today, buy more puts and short ETFs, and pray for the rest of us.

Good luck folks.

PS - when McCain was last in the lead, Dow was at 11,000

Stone, just out of curiosity, how was your portfolio doing under the Clinton administration?

Hard to quantify since many of the companies that I invested in no longer exist but of course I made money at times and luckily got out before most went to zero. But if you recall the first 2 years werent great until the republican congress was elected. And Clinton was a proponent of free-trade. something Obama has spoken out against which is bearish for stocks.

Well, I'm sure you'll agree that the economy in general was in MUCH better shape under Clinton. I guess I just don't understand why you're concerned that Obama is 'hiring Clinton retreads.' Some of those people must have had the right idea, right?

Let's bring them all back then. Dot com bubble was great. That was the beginning when people got the bug to get rich quick vs. hard work. But that's for another day.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 4:55:23 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/20/2008 4:52:19 PM
Author: stone_seeker
But telling facts to hard core Obama fan boys is moot. Like telling someone there is no God.

Insulting. Personal. Attacks. C'mon Stoneseeker, can't you do better? Is that all you have left?

If someone is going to respond with insults (e.g "gimme a break, OMG, etc), I will reply with comments such as fanboy. There are some obama supporters who i can respect who argue their points intelligently. And then there are those, like Rob, who come off as if Obama can do no wrong.

To end this thread, I will agree with you all and say obama's policies are GREAT for markets. I'll keep my short positions on though.

Best of luck.

 

[shel]

Isn''t a bear market something that young investors should rejoice about? In 10/2007, I was prepared to accept mediocre returns because equity prices had been bid up so high, but with this "crash" my optimism has been restored. We''ll finally have the opportunity for stocks to yield returns that outpace inflation by a whopping margin. To me, it''s been 15 awesome days in the market since the election (the single up-day doesn''t bother me). If your investing time horizon is >15 years, you should be hoping the market drops even more.

 

[azbuyer]

As an Obama fanboy myself, I have to agree that he should be saying something. He doesnt want to come off as a "flip flopper" but there are messages he can send that will likely stop the slide in the market. Even if its only temporary. But the market seems to lack a leader. We have bickering in Congress about big auto, Paulson is confused with one foot out the door, Bush is useless, so Barack should be more present so we at least have confidence someone is in control and is going to do the right thing and not crush people with tax, etc when we cant afford to it.

Markets are finicky and it doesnt take much to give people hope and maybe then they wont be so quick to sell. No one knows today how any policy will be reflected in the market value of stocks a year from now but policy does not matter in a panic - its about confidence. We gain confidence through leadership and I dont buy the point that the president-elect cant do anything. Obama is the most powerful president-elect in history. The world wataches his every move. He can do a lot in the next few months.

 

[Allisonfaye]

I don''t think the market was at 11,000 BECAUSE McCain was ahead. I don''t think the dot.com bubble was caused by Bill Clinton.
I think the market is in the toilet now because no one has any confidence in Hank Paulson and his plan. When he shifted gears on the bailout, we all lost faith. With the automakers up on Capitol Hill, it just further erodes any confidence. JMO.

I agree that some people have some confusion on the difference between causation and correlation.

 

[sklingem]

-->OMG and give me a break are not insults.
Stoneseeker - since you are merely misrepresenting my posts and hanging on to the "Obama can do no wrong" mantra irrespective of what is really being said or argued about- I will rest my case. The issue of causal inference - independent of politics/ideology - is sometimes difficult to grasp. And putting aside ideological blinders for a second seems even more challenging. Oh. And Obama can do no wrong. Almost forgot.

 

[azbuyer]

Date: 11/20/2008 5:45:54 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
I don''t think the market was at 11,000 BECAUSE McCain was ahead. I don''t think the dot.com bubble was caused by Bill Clinton.
I think the market is in the toilet now because no one has any confidence in Hank Paulson and his plan. When he shifted gears on the bailout, we all lost faith. With the automakers up on Capitol Hill, it just further erodes any confidence. JMO.

I agree that some people have some confusion on the difference between causation and correlation.

Was the recent economic debacle "caused" by Bush?

Just curious if presidents matter for the economy or if its more luck and timing.

 

[iheartscience]

Sweet jesus-this thread is a laugh riot! Below, the condensed version:

Republicans: IT''S ALL OBAMA''S FAULT! HE''S THE WORST IN THE WORLD AND HE''S RUINING MY LIFE EVEN THOUGH HE''S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!

Democrats: Let''s not get crazy-Obama''s not even the president yet-how can you blame the economy on him?

Republicans: OH OF COURSE YOU''LL DEFEND YOUR MESSIAH, YOU HUGO CHAVEZ LOVING COMMIES! YOU''RE ALL FANBOYS. STOP IT WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST US FOR NOT LOVING OBAMA!

The End.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 11/20/2008 5:56:24 PM
Author: thing2of2
Sweet jesus-this thread is a laugh riot! Below, the condensed version:

Republicans: IT''S ALL OBAMA''S FAULT! HE''S THE WORST IN THE WORLD AND HE''S RUINING MY LIFE EVEN THOUGH HE''S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!

Democrats: Let''s not get crazy-Obama''s not even the president yet-how can you blame the economy on him?

Republicans: OH OF COURSE YOU''LL DEFEND YOUR MESSIAH, YOU HUGO CHAVEZ LOVING COMMIES! YOU''RE ALL FANBOYS. STOP IT WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST US FOR NOT LOVING OBAMA!

The End.

LOL. Basically.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/20/2008 5:56:24 PM
Author: thing2of2
Sweet jesus-this thread is a laugh riot! Below, the condensed version:

Republicans: IT''S ALL OBAMA''S FAULT! HE''S THE WORST IN THE WORLD AND HE''S RUINING MY LIFE EVEN THOUGH HE''S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!

Democrats: Let''s not get crazy-Obama''s not even the president yet-how can you blame the economy on him?

Republicans: OH OF COURSE YOU''LL DEFEND YOUR MESSIAH, YOU HUGO CHAVEZ LOVING COMMIES! YOU''RE ALL FANBOYS. STOP IT WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST US FOR NOT LOVING OBAMA!

The End.

How could you leave out the smoking gun ... the climax ... the moment of truth ... the most stinging retort of all: "OMG! Gimmie a break!"

 

[panda08]

Date: 11/20/2008 6:00:40 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/20/2008 5:56:24 PM
Author: thing2of2
Sweet jesus-this thread is a laugh riot! Below, the condensed version:

Republicans: IT''S ALL OBAMA''S FAULT! HE''S THE WORST IN THE WORLD AND HE''S RUINING MY LIFE EVEN THOUGH HE''S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!

Democrats: Let''s not get crazy-Obama''s not even the president yet-how can you blame the economy on him?

Republicans: OH OF COURSE YOU''LL DEFEND YOUR MESSIAH, YOU HUGO CHAVEZ LOVING COMMIES! YOU''RE ALL FANBOYS. STOP IT WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST US FOR NOT LOVING OBAMA!

The End.

How could you leave out the smoking gun ... the climax ... the moment of truth ... the most stinging retort of all: ''OMG! Gimmie a break!''

LOL! love the cliff notes version!