Wanting to Stay Young vs Wanting to Get Older

Rand_alThor · Mar 5, 2004

I got into an interesting debate with a close friend while commuting to work this morning. The topic "Wanting to Stay Young vs Wanting to Get Older". I spoke for the "wanting to stay young" team. I believe that "wanting to stay young"(when I say this I mean mentally, we are all operating under the underlying assumption that age catches up to everyone) is about keeping your mind fresh and open to change. Additionally, I also believe that wanting to stay and look youthful is a matter of personal preference. As an example if women want to get comestic surgery done to improve the way she looks, I say that it is a matter of personal choice.She is probably well aware of the damage it may do to her body but again its a matter of choice. I say Live and let live.

The arguments put forth against my theory were that people who want to stay young may be in denial and or immature and or refuse to grow up. Also that getting older also meant getting the comfort of experience, stability and reliability.

I can certainly see a greater degree of correlation between age and experience.i.e. the greater the age the greater the acquired wisdom. But the true question is, is there a causalty? Is it really true that everyone that gets older gets wiser. If true then how did the Bill Gates or Michael Dell's of today get to be so successful . What about the co founders of Google? The answer then is that these very same business leaders of today were successful because they instituted change. Neither of the two had the wisdom or the foresight that experience gained through age brought. Lets take Michael Dell as an example. in the early 1990's when his company was expanding; traditional & experienced wisdom told him to sell his computers via the standardized retailers/dealers route. He chose to sell his computers directly to the consumers via the phone and the then youthful internet. That model was a resounding success for his company.

I speak for myself when I say I am proponent of change. I also believe that traditional wisdom and experience should be swallowed with a grain of salt. To me, wanting to stay and feel young is not about immaturity or the carelessness of youth but it is about choosing to not accept traditional wisdom at face value. Its about what feels right from within and not about what everyone says is right. To me maturity is forecasting, understanding and acknowledging the consequences of your actions.

"Think outside the box"

This debate can furthur be extrapolated into the order versus choas theory. (Anyone read LE Modessit Jr?).

In conclusion I think that in the end everything boils down to a choice that people want to make. The choice is choosing the way you want to live your life. I made mine.

Nicrez · Mar 5, 2004

Oooohhh...Love to respond to THIS one!

Age is something that comes without any action to stop it. It is the great inevitable. I for one believe in respecting the body by caring for it as best you can, but there should be a balance with the soul. You must keep the body in good enough condition to be able to enjoy life to the fullest, so you can satisfy the soul...ie: Work out and eat right to stay healthy, to be able to travel or white water raft (whatever) to make those memories and complete those wishes you have.

As for wisdom, it doesn not always accompany age. Some people are born smart and sharp. Some are born clueless and no amount of time will give them "wisdom". However, the general trend of life is to LIVE it. That means sucesses and failures. Being a successful human includes learning from those mistakes, and the more you make, HOPEFULLY the more you learn from them. Like a child lerns NOT to touch a stone. Sometimes we listen to others, and learn from theirs...To me that's truly difficult, but THAT's maturity. Knowing when and how to learn.

Yes, by all means, keep your mind & body young and open to change, especially the changes your BODY will endure through time, and learn to accept that a shift from the importance of the physical to the deeper things, as the body slows. Some rare people are lucky to have a youthful old age, and IMHO those are the people who's minds are young and energetic who will their bodies to fulfill their soul's wishes...Aging isn't a four letter word, so as it is inevitable, accept it with grace, as each phase comes, and know that denial of it will not make it slow any more than Father time allows...

Me? I'm going to be a fiesty old lady, taking art classes and dragging my guy to as many strange and interesting locations as my old bones will allow!!!

fire&ice · Mar 5, 2004

I can respond as someone who is old - it you guy's minds at least.

The greatest gift ageing has brought me is a level of comfort - in *all* aspects of my life. To relate to PS - Nope, I can crab all I want about the injustice of people feeling fine about talking negative about large stones; but, it has no impact on my life.

I don't think resistance to change & age necessarily go hand in hand - perhaps on a lower life level. But, I'm more likely to take a chance now than in my 20's. Perhaps the only difference is "taking that chance" is far more cognitive than in my 20's. Maybe I took those chances in the 20's but I didn't think it through as much.

I don't know. I think I have asked myself more questions about this than imparted some great wisdom.

Also, a lesson I have learned from my business translates as a metaphor how I live my life. When one stops learning & reaching for a new spin, one dies. Whenever I hear someone proclaim themselves as an expert, I feel they have stopped learning.

Intersting thread.

Edited to ask: Is nicrez waiting for Randthor to propose?

glitterata · Mar 5, 2004

I agree with Fire & Ice. Aging and closed-mindedness are two separate issues. I know lots and lots of young people who don't take risks and lots and lots of older people who do. In fact, in my experience, although some people get more stubborn and closed-minded as they age, just as many people mellow and become more open to new experience.

Also, you can't stop time from going by. No matter what you do, you're going to age. It's good to take care of your health, but even if you do, it isn't entirely (or even very much) in your control. Even if you eat well, exercise, don't smoke, etc., your body will age and diseases may strike.

If you're lucky, experience will give you the perspective to face trouble and to focus on what's really important.

I love being in my 40s. I'm so much happier, stronger, more confident, and more creative than when I was younger. I wouldn't go back to my 20s for all the diamonds in the world. Although it would be nice to have some people back who I lost... other than that, though, no thanks!

Nicrez · Mar 5, 2004

F&I, YES, I AM STILL WAITING!!!

Glitterata, I agree you can never stop that clock of time, and believe it or not, I have always thought of aging in a totally different way that my peers...

I grew up around many older people. My older sibling's friends where mine, and I was always "too mature" for my age, refusing to "damage my body" with smoking like everyone else, and drinking before I was legally allowed to. This odd maturity at my age made me a goodie-two-shoes of sorts, but my adventurous, social and optimistic personality made me more tolerable!!!

I always would say things like, I HATE being young, no one takes you seriously, or treats your opinions with the usual, "when you grow up" attitude. Many didn't, and those people I hung around and soaked up their words like a sponge...I swore that my best age will be at 30-40, because by then I will have financial stability, a good career or job, possibly be married with kids and live in a state of comfort and less uncertainty. I knew about bills, and responsibilities, but weighted the fact that with more stability and disposable income I could start doing the things I always wanted, like travel in comfort, and be listened to and dispense wisdom of my years to others...I still stand by that statement.

I believe that it's a comfort to grow into your skin, and truly admire yourself and really know yourself with every year that passes. You understand your own goals and wishes, as well as your tendancies. Like any relationship, it takes time to get to know someone, and grow comfortable with that person, so it also applies with oneself. I personally have always admired the older women of my family, and those I knew growing up. What they lacked in physical appearance or prowess, they gained in an elegance and ease that olny comes with time and experience.

Of course not everyone grows old gracefully, but that has always been my goal. To learn, to live and to grow peaceful and content, regardless of the sagging (let's admit it), the greying and all the other wonderful things we women eventually endure. I have seen countless women who are beautiful in their youth, but I am always more struck by a woman who has gracefully grown old.

Believe it or not, I have even told one woman she was so beautiful...She had soft grey hair pulled back in an elegant low bun, tastefully cut clothes that looked comfortable and yet of excellent quality. She wore little jewelry, but what she wore was a delicate necklace, a large tasteful ring, and no earrings. She exuded comfort and elegance by the truck load, and I hadn't even noticed the wrinkles past the bright twinkling of her eyes. She seemed quick to smile, but in a calm, happy motherly way. I wished to be just like her at her age. Her response was a slight blush and she squeezed my shoulder and smiled softly. She said only "You will too one day, you will too..." it's like she read my mind.

I still believe that I would rather be an imperfect older woman than a beautiful, and shallow young woman. But that's just me. They don't have to exist seperately, but I perhaps have just been lucky to have women around me who can age gracefully, so I hope I can too!

Matata · Mar 5, 2004

All of you have spoken so eloquently to the original post that I can't add much more to enhance the conversation. I agree that an open mind and a healthy body and spirit are fundamental to being able to enjoy life. And while aging is inevitable, I just can't accept having the exterior package reflecting the wisdom of the ages. So, ladies, I will go quietly into that good night when the time comes to depart this earth, but I will resist the deterioration of the exterior package. I lead an active lifestyle and am in good shape. But, my butt is starting to make intimate acquaintence with the back of my knees; the distance between my breasts and belly button is negligible, and I woke up Jan. 29, on my 49th birthday, to find my mother looking back at me in the mirror. Nooooooooooooooo!!!!! I will be nipped, tucked, buffed, scrubbed, and lipoed even if I have to sell my jewels to pay for it. I may be rotting on the inside, but I shall be taut and falsely youthful on the outside.

Nicrez · Mar 5, 2004

GASP! Matata DON'T SELL THE JEWELS!!!

I'd rather be wrinkly and saggy than sell my jewels (or at least the many I will one day own!)...That's just WRONG!

For what? To look like Britney or any of those gals? Heck no!

I remember I was 17 and all stupidity when I was working at a small mortgage company. The owner's wife was a wealthy woman in her late 60's. She wore Chanel suits and jingled with the sounds of jewels rattling...Every hair in it's repeatedly colored place...One day when my young coworker and I commented so follishly that how fair is it that wealth and daily spa treaments and luxury goods shopping was totally wasted on a woman of HER age...We were surprised...

She came out from the small area where se had been hidden looking for an earring back, and said so calmly and so much like Zsa Zsa..."Ladies, That is PERCISELY when a lady should be pampered with luxuries and treated like a queen...In time you will see." She winked and walked away, with no ill will for our stupid comments...We kept our jobs, but I would venture to say we at least did learn our lessons...

Check all rooms before talking about the bosses wife!!!

Eye_of_Bravais · Mar 5, 2004

To comment on this following excerpt from your post:

"I can certainly see a greater degree of correlation between age and experience.i.e. the greater the age the greater the acquired wisdom. But the true question is, is there a causalty? "

You follow that up with saying that experience naturally accumulates the longer one's been alive. I certainly agree---but there are vast differences between the quality of those experiences as well as how one interprets those experiences. The mind is constantly accumulating more data and rearranging it, storing it, interpreting it over and over and over each second or fraction thereof that one is alive. Without delving too much into the neurological or epistemological (both 3.0 carat words, I know) implications involved, the value of how "older/wiser" or "younger" one feels is, in my opinion, tied directly to how one takes those experiences and executes them into something meaningful---meaningful for one's personal life experience and possibly, for those friends and loved ones around you.

So yes---"greater the acquired wisdom" in terms of magnitude, but not necessarily "greater" in terms of quality, meaningfulness, or personal significance, emotional, psychological or otherwise. For example, by someone obtaining a GIA GG certification, neurologically speaking, more knowledge has been obtained. Now, is that knowledge used so that that individual is a smarter diamond consumer, a more resourceful diamond broker or jeweler, or a craftier gem crook---that's up to the individual.

I think it is up to the individual to do with their acquired wisdom--or lack thereof if you get down to the youth versus old age comparison, and do with it what their conscience demands that they must do.

EoB

Matata · Mar 5, 2004

Nicrez, I don't wanna look like Britney, I want to look my age only, umm, enhanced!! What good are my jewels if my diamond necklace is lost in the wattles around my neck? Or my knuckle wrinkles flow down over the top of my ring and bury my diamond in a miniature mudslide of puckered flesh. Ewwwww. I suppose I could compromise and buy bigger jewels but the weight of them would likely bend me in half, oh wait, that would raise my buttocks off the back of my knees...hey, it could work!

Rand_alThor · Mar 5, 2004

The arguments put forth against my theory were that people who want to stay young may be in denial and or immature and or refuse to grow up. Also that getting older also meant getting the comfort of experience, stability and reliability.

I think we got off track from the central point I was trying to make. My issue is not with how people look and try to understand and/or deal with the physical aspect of ageing. Ageing occurs regardless of what people in either camp wish for. The central theme I am trying to debate is below.

1) Are people (regardless of age (20's to 90's) who subscribe to the I want to stay young philosophy immature or are in denial of their age or are these the very same mature & responsible people who are the harbingers of change.

The underlying asumption I make is that as a majority of people get older, they subscribe to the "familiarity breeds comfort" philosophy. I say "wanting to say young" phsyically may be vanity and perhaps even denial but wanting to say young mentally is not.

Let me illustrate by using a simple child example.

Lets assume child (A) touches a hot stove and learns that he shouldn't touch a stove.

Lets assume child (B) touches a hot stove and learns that he shouldn't touch a stove but also realises that metals conduct heat much faster than non metallic substances. Lets assume this experience furthurs his sense of curiosity and he experiments with other types of mettalic susbtances much to his parents dismay who think this child is slightly"special" and not developed in the head because he is doing something he shouldn't and could hurt/burn himself with his experiments. Child B grows up and develops a working theory on heat sinks.

Child A: Grows with traditional wisdom
Child B: Grows with traditional wisdom and institutes change.

Now was Child B immature compared to Child A? No. He brought forth a change into an ordered environment. Order Vs Chaos. Excessive Order breeds Chaos to bring balance and vice versa.

In conclusion, now if everyone followed traditional wisdom there would be no change, no growth, no metals and worst of all for the ladies "No diamonds"....

F&I: For now all I can say is "its coming"

valeria101 · Mar 5, 2004

Hm... is there a clear cut?

#1: fossils stay young, only the living get old

#2: time needs wisedom to become "experience".

To me, the understanding and timely interpretation of tradition, general knowledge and extra-presonal experience is often called "wisedom", at any age. Both 'conservative' and 'radical' choices (as your computer industry examples) learn from each other over time. And don't tell me that bubble did not actually burst

Actually, it is hard to get the whole of your argument: clearly both personal eperience and impersonal knowledge are very important, but each easily outweighs the other in different circustances. Not to mention luck... Few way of thinking are really new, if you wish.

Where I go wrong here?

Nicrez · Mar 5, 2004

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On 3/5/2004 12:27:44 PM Rand_alThor wrote:

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