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Wanting to Stay Young vs Wanting to Get Older

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by Rand_alThor, Mar 5, 2004.

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  1. Rand_alThor
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rand_alThor » Mar 5, 2004
    I got into an interesting debate with a close friend while commuting to work this morning. The topic "Wanting to Stay Young vs Wanting to Get Older". I spoke for the "wanting to stay young" team. I believe that "wanting to stay young"(when I say this I mean mentally, we are all operating under the underlying assumption that age catches up to everyone) is about keeping your mind fresh and open to change. Additionally, I also believe that wanting to stay and look youthful is a matter of personal preference. As an example if women want to get comestic surgery done to improve the way she looks, I say that it is a matter of personal choice.She is probably well aware of the damage it may do to her body but again its a matter of choice. I say Live and let live.




    The arguments put forth against my theory were that people who want to stay young may be in denial and or immature and or refuse to grow up. Also that getting older also meant getting the comfort of experience, stability and reliability.




    I can certainly see a greater degree of correlation between age and experience.i.e. the greater the age the greater the acquired wisdom. But the true question is, is there a causalty? Is it really true that everyone that gets older gets wiser. If true then how did the Bill Gates or Michael Dell's of today get to be so successful . What about the co founders of Google? The answer then is that these very same business leaders of today were successful because they instituted change. Neither of the two had the wisdom or the foresight that experience gained through age brought. Lets take Michael Dell as an example. in the early 1990's when his company was expanding; traditional & experienced wisdom told him to sell his computers via the standardized retailers/dealers route. He chose to sell his computers directly to the consumers via the phone and the then youthful internet. That model was a resounding success for his company.




    I speak for myself when I say I am proponent of change. I also believe that traditional wisdom and experience should be swallowed with a grain of salt. To me, wanting to stay and feel young is not about immaturity or the carelessness of youth but it is about choosing to not accept traditional wisdom at face value. Its about what feels right from within and not about what everyone says is right. To me maturity is forecasting, understanding and acknowledging the consequences of your actions.




    "Think outside the box"




    This debate can furthur be extrapolated into the order versus choas theory. (Anyone read LE Modessit Jr?).




    In conclusion I think that in the end everything boils down to a choice that people want to make. The choice is choosing the way you want to live your life. I made mine. [​IMG]
     
  2. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004
    Oooohhh...Love to respond to THIS one! [​IMG]




    Age is something that comes without any action to stop it. It is the great inevitable. I for one believe in respecting the body by caring for it as best you can, but there should be a balance with the soul. You must keep the body in good enough condition to be able to enjoy life to the fullest, so you can satisfy the soul...ie: Work out and eat right to stay healthy, to be able to travel or white water raft (whatever) to make those memories and complete those wishes you have.




    As for wisdom, it doesn not always accompany age. Some people are born smart and sharp. Some are born clueless and no amount of time will give them "wisdom". However, the general trend of life is to LIVE it. That means sucesses and failures. Being a successful human includes learning from those mistakes, and the more you make, HOPEFULLY the more you learn from them. Like a child lerns NOT to touch a stone. Sometimes we listen to others, and learn from theirs...To me that's truly difficult, but THAT's maturity. Knowing when and how to learn.




    Yes, by all means, keep your mind & body young and open to change, especially the changes your BODY will endure through time, and learn to accept that a shift from the importance of the physical to the deeper things, as the body slows. Some rare people are lucky to have a youthful old age, and IMHO those are the people who's minds are young and energetic who will their bodies to fulfill their soul's wishes...Aging isn't a four letter word, so as it is inevitable, accept it with grace, as each phase comes, and know that denial of it will not make it slow any more than Father time allows...[​IMG][​IMG]




    Me? I'm going to be a fiesty old lady, taking art classes and dragging my guy to as many strange and interesting locations as my old bones will allow!!!
     
  3. fire&ice
    Ideal_Rock

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    by fire&ice » Mar 5, 2004
    I can respond as someone who is old - it you guy's minds at least. [​IMG][​IMG]

    The greatest gift ageing has brought me is a level of comfort - in *all* aspects of my life. To relate to PS - Nope, I can crab all I want about the injustice of people feeling fine about talking negative about large stones; but, it has no impact on my life.

    I don't think resistance to change & age necessarily go hand in hand - perhaps on a lower life level. But, I'm more likely to take a chance now than in my 20's. Perhaps the only difference is "taking that chance" is far more cognitive than in my 20's. Maybe I took those chances in the 20's but I didn't think it through as much.

    I don't know. I think I have asked myself more questions about this than imparted some great wisdom.

    Also, a lesson I have learned from my business translates as a metaphor how I live my life. When one stops learning & reaching for a new spin, one dies. Whenever I hear someone proclaim themselves as an expert, I feel they have stopped learning.

    Intersting thread.

    Edited to ask: Is nicrez waiting for Randthor to propose?
     
  4. glitterata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by glitterata » Mar 5, 2004
    I agree with Fire & Ice. Aging and closed-mindedness are two separate issues. I know lots and lots of young people who don't take risks and lots and lots of older people who do. In fact, in my experience, although some people get more stubborn and closed-minded as they age, just as many people mellow and become more open to new experience.

    Also, you can't stop time from going by. No matter what you do, you're going to age. It's good to take care of your health, but even if you do, it isn't entirely (or even very much) in your control. Even if you eat well, exercise, don't smoke, etc., your body will age and diseases may strike.

    If you're lucky, experience will give you the perspective to face trouble and to focus on what's really important.

    I love being in my 40s. I'm so much happier, stronger, more confident, and more creative than when I was younger. I wouldn't go back to my 20s for all the diamonds in the world. Although it would be nice to have some people back who I lost... other than that, though, no thanks!
     
  5. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004
    F&I, YES, I AM STILL WAITING!!!




    Glitterata, I agree you can never stop that clock of time, and believe it or not, I have always thought of aging in a totally different way that my peers...




    I grew up around many older people. My older sibling's friends where mine, and I was always "too mature" for my age, refusing to "damage my body" with smoking like everyone else, and drinking before I was legally allowed to. This odd maturity at my age made me a goodie-two-shoes of sorts, but my adventurous, social and optimistic personality made me more tolerable!!![​IMG][​IMG]




    I always would say things like, I HATE being young, no one takes you seriously, or treats your opinions with the usual, "when you grow up" attitude. Many didn't, and those people I hung around and soaked up their words like a sponge...I swore that my best age will be at 30-40, because by then I will have financial stability, a good career or job, possibly be married with kids and live in a state of comfort and less uncertainty. I knew about bills, and responsibilities, but weighted the fact that with more stability and disposable income I could start doing the things I always wanted, like travel in comfort, and be listened to and dispense wisdom of my years to others...I still stand by that statement.




    I believe that it's a comfort to grow into your skin, and truly admire yourself and really know yourself with every year that passes. You understand your own goals and wishes, as well as your tendancies. Like any relationship, it takes time to get to know someone, and grow comfortable with that person, so it also applies with oneself. I personally have always admired the older women of my family, and those I knew growing up. What they lacked in physical appearance or prowess, they gained in an elegance and ease that olny comes with time and experience.




    Of course not everyone grows old gracefully, but that has always been my goal. To learn, to live and to grow peaceful and content, regardless of the sagging (let's admit it), the greying and all the other wonderful things we women eventually endure. I have seen countless women who are beautiful in their youth, but I am always more struck by a woman who has gracefully grown old.




    Believe it or not, I have even told one woman she was so beautiful...She had soft grey hair pulled back in an elegant low bun, tastefully cut clothes that looked comfortable and yet of excellent quality. She wore little jewelry, but what she wore was a delicate necklace, a large tasteful ring, and no earrings. She exuded comfort and elegance by the truck load, and I hadn't even noticed the wrinkles past the bright twinkling of her eyes. She seemed quick to smile, but in a calm, happy motherly way. I wished to be just like her at her age. Her response was a slight blush and she squeezed my shoulder and smiled softly. She said only "You will too one day, you will too..." it's like she read my mind.




    I still believe that I would rather be an imperfect older woman than a beautiful, and shallow young woman. But that's just me. They don't have to exist seperately, but I perhaps have just been lucky to have women around me who can age gracefully, so I hope I can too! [​IMG]
     
  6. Matata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Matata » Mar 5, 2004
    All of you have spoken so eloquently to the original post that I can't add much more to enhance the conversation. I agree that an open mind and a healthy body and spirit are fundamental to being able to enjoy life. And while aging is inevitable, I just can't accept having the exterior package reflecting the wisdom of the ages. So, ladies, I will go quietly into that good night when the time comes to depart this earth, but I will resist the deterioration of the exterior package. I lead an active lifestyle and am in good shape. But, my butt is starting to make intimate acquaintence with the back of my knees; the distance between my breasts and belly button is negligible, and I woke up Jan. 29, on my 49th birthday, to find my mother looking back at me in the mirror. Nooooooooooooooo!!!!! I will be nipped, tucked, buffed, scrubbed, and lipoed even if I have to sell my jewels to pay for it. I may be rotting on the inside, but I shall be taut and falsely youthful on the outside.
     
  7. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004
    GASP! Matata DON'T SELL THE JEWELS!!!




    I'd rather be wrinkly and saggy than sell my jewels (or at least the many I will one day own!)...That's just WRONG!




    For what? To look like Britney or any of those gals? Heck no! [​IMG][​IMG]




    I remember I was 17 and all stupidity when I was working at a small mortgage company. The owner's wife was a wealthy woman in her late 60's. She wore Chanel suits and jingled with the sounds of jewels rattling...Every hair in it's repeatedly colored place...One day when my young coworker and I commented so follishly that how fair is it that wealth and daily spa treaments and luxury goods shopping was totally wasted on a woman of HER age...We were surprised... [​IMG]




    She came out from the small area where se had been hidden looking for an earring back, and said so calmly and so much like Zsa Zsa..."Ladies, That is PERCISELY when a lady should be pampered with luxuries and treated like a queen...In time you will see." She winked and walked away, with no ill will for our stupid comments...We kept our jobs, but I would venture to say we at least did learn our lessons...




    Check all rooms before talking about the bosses wife!!! [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Eye_of_Bravais
    Rough_Rock

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    by Eye_of_Bravais » Mar 5, 2004
    To comment on this following excerpt from your post:

    "I can certainly see a greater degree of correlation between age and experience.i.e. the greater the age the greater the acquired wisdom. But the true question is, is there a causalty? "

    You follow that up with saying that experience naturally accumulates the longer one's been alive. I certainly agree---but there are vast differences between the quality of those experiences as well as how one interprets those experiences. The mind is constantly accumulating more data and rearranging it, storing it, interpreting it over and over and over each second or fraction thereof that one is alive. Without delving too much into the neurological or epistemological (both 3.0 carat words, I know) implications involved, the value of how "older/wiser" or "younger" one feels is, in my opinion, tied directly to how one takes those experiences and executes them into something meaningful---meaningful for one's personal life experience and possibly, for those friends and loved ones around you.

    So yes---"greater the acquired wisdom" in terms of magnitude, but not necessarily "greater" in terms of quality, meaningfulness, or personal significance, emotional, psychological or otherwise. For example, by someone obtaining a GIA GG certification, neurologically speaking, more knowledge has been obtained. Now, is that knowledge used so that that individual is a smarter diamond consumer, a more resourceful diamond broker or jeweler, or a craftier gem crook---that's up to the individual.

    I think it is up to the individual to do with their acquired wisdom--or lack thereof if you get down to the youth versus old age comparison, and do with it what their conscience demands that they must do.

    EoB
     
  9. Matata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Matata » Mar 5, 2004
    Nicrez, I don't wanna look like Britney, I want to look my age only, umm, enhanced!! What good are my jewels if my diamond necklace is lost in the wattles around my neck? Or my knuckle wrinkles flow down over the top of my ring and bury my diamond in a miniature mudslide of puckered flesh. Ewwwww. I suppose I could compromise and buy bigger jewels but the weight of them would likely bend me in half, oh wait, that would raise my buttocks off the back of my knees...hey, it could work!
     
  10. Rand_alThor
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rand_alThor » Mar 5, 2004








    The arguments put forth against my theory were that people who want to stay young may be in denial and or immature and or refuse to grow up. Also that getting older also meant getting the comfort of experience, stability and reliability.













    I think we got off track from the central point I was trying to make. My issue is not with how people look and try to understand and/or deal with the physical aspect of ageing. Ageing occurs regardless of what people in either camp wish for. The central theme I am trying to debate is below.




    1) Are people (regardless of age (20's to 90's) who subscribe to the I want to stay young philosophy immature or are in denial of their age or are these the very same mature & responsible people who are the harbingers of change.




    The underlying asumption I make is that as a majority of people get older, they subscribe to the "familiarity breeds comfort" philosophy. I say "wanting to say young" phsyically may be vanity and perhaps even denial but wanting to say young mentally is not.




    Let me illustrate by using a simple child example.


    Lets assume child (A) touches a hot stove and learns that he shouldn't touch a stove.


    Lets assume child (B) touches a hot stove and learns that he shouldn't touch a stove but also realises that metals conduct heat much faster than non metallic substances. Lets assume this experience furthurs his sense of curiosity and he experiments with other types of mettalic susbtances much to his parents dismay who think this child is slightly"special" and not developed in the head because he is doing something he shouldn't and could hurt/burn himself with his experiments. Child B grows up and develops a working theory on heat sinks.




    Child A: Grows with traditional wisdom
    Child B: Grows with traditional wisdom and institutes change.


    Now was Child B immature compared to Child A? No. He brought forth a change into an ordered environment. Order Vs Chaos. Excessive Order breeds Chaos to bring balance and vice versa.




    In conclusion, now if everyone followed traditional wisdom there would be no change, no growth, no metals and worst of all for the ladies "No diamonds"....




    F&I: For now all I can say is "its coming" [​IMG]
     
  11. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Mar 5, 2004
    Hm... is there a clear cut?

    #1: fossils stay young, only the living get old

    #2: time needs wisedom to become "experience".

    To me, the understanding and timely interpretation of tradition, general knowledge and extra-presonal experience is often called "wisedom", at any age. Both 'conservative' and 'radical' choices (as your computer industry examples) learn from each other over time. And don't tell me that bubble did not actually burst [​IMG]

    Actually, it is hard to get the whole of your argument: clearly both personal eperience and impersonal knowledge are very important, but each easily outweighs the other in different circustances. Not to mention luck... Few way of thinking are really new, if you wish.

    Where I go wrong here?
     
  12. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004

    ----------------



    On 3/5/2004 12:27:44 PM Rand_alThor wrote:



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    1) Are people (regardless of age (20's to 90's) who subscribe to the I want to stay young philosophy immature or are in denial of their age or are these the very same mature & responsible people who are the harbingers of change.





    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    What is your definition of Immaturity and maturity?Mine is when a person refuses to "step up the to the plate", when they lack decision-making skills, when they shun responsibility, when they deny needing to change, when they stubbornly cling to selfish concerns without thinking of the logic behind such a decision, or lack thereof.That's my definition of immaturity.Maturity to me, is passing that “ME” stage and heading into the "other people" stage of when you do something for someone else.When you make a decision boldly, weighing each option and making the executive decision, right or wrong, and having the guts to face the consequences if bad, and the humility to face the consequences with grace when correct.When each mistake teaches you something, and you still hold onto the belief that you may not be infallible and you STILL have something to learn, even from the youngest, dumbest person.That to ME is maturity.No one is perfect, but the ability to have these qualities in majority makes one closer to it.



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    The underlying assumption I make is that, as a majority of people get older, they subscribe to the 'familiarity breeds comfort' philosophy. I say 'wanting to say young' physically may be vanity and perhaps even denial but wanting to stay young mentally is not.



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    What does staying young mentally mean?Questioning things?You should never lose the fire of curiosity.That’s what will keep me learning and reading and talking to different people all my life.But being young mentally to means exactly as said above, where the ME attitude is present, and not wanting to understand things according to other philosophies…example:Teen who argues with parents that they are CRUEL for not letting the teen get a tattoo at 13.Parents know it’s dangerous and try to explain it’s lasting consequences; etc…Later on teen grows up and weights those consequences again, and decides on their own if it’s what they want.Maybe parents were right?



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    Child A: Grows with traditional wisdom



    Child B: Grows with traditional wisdom and institutes change.



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    That was NOT an example of traditional wisdom.That was a child who burned itself and didn’t care about thermodynamics and metallurgy!What if child A instead becomes a doctor and invents the cure for AIDS…? /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    Both children were curious, as both touched the stove, wanting their own experience, versus Mom saying, “don’t do it…” Curiosity in a person I believe is inherent, and it’s their environment that either induces it or suppresses it.Immaturity has no correlation to curiosity.It’s the reaction and learning process (or lack thereof) that occurs after the curiosity that constitutes maturity.An Immature child would keep doing it, until they burned their hand off, or did it to anger their mom…



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    Now was Child B immature compared to Child A? No. He brought forth a change into an ordered environment. Order Vs Chaos. ”Excessive Order breeds Chaos to bring balance and vice versa.”



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    No, Child B was actually a science fiction embryonic SUPER CHILD.If the experience was enough to sear in a child’s mind, PAIRED with curiosity and the nurturing of it, they will do as you say Child B is capable of.BUT again curiosity and the follow through of an idea is a trait NOT CONNECTED to maturity.Both Mature and immature people have it.I know a very immature man who is 41 years old.He was extremely curious, and traveled Europe for 2 years backpacking…he taught in South Africa for a few years; he became a lawyer and had done everything under the sun.Curiosity abounded, but he was immature because he thought his youth would be there forever and he could forever make bad decisions without changing for the better.He refused to think of anyone but “ME” (himself), and never thought of his consequences.HE is immature, but curious and effected many positive changes within his career and life perhaps, but as a person…/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    In conclusion, now if everyone followed traditional wisdom there would be no change, no growth, no metals and worst of all for the ladies 'No diamonds'....



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    Traditional wisdom is not a bad thing. It’s the thing that tells you to date the nice guy who treats you right and not date that fast flashy guy who is known to cheat on women.Traditional wisdom is what makes you think twice before quitting HS to run your own nightclub on $300 your friends and you saved up.Change is ALWAYS good, but change for the sake of change is immaturity.Change after reflection and a mature evaluation of the effects, and being able to handle those is a mature instinct./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>



    Traditional wisdom is knowing that sometimes as you grown older you start to echo your parents at an uncanny rate, and even worse when you become a parent yourself…and in a few years, you start to realize that you’d probably laugh at yourself when you were a kid and disagreed.Some things are just time tested and mother approved.Sometimes there’s a reason they become traditions….but that’s just my $.02….(hee hee I am obviously frustrated by some things out of my control...huh?) [​IMG][​IMG]



    /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

    ----------------
     
  13. fire&ice
    Ideal_Rock

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    by fire&ice » Mar 5, 2004
     
  14. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004
    THANKS F&I!


    *does little booty shaking vistory dance* [​IMG]




    *sticks tongue out* [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. fire&ice
    Ideal_Rock

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    by fire&ice » Mar 5, 2004
    BTW, I don't think you can reason someone into maturity. And, girls *do* mature much faster than boys.
     
  16. Matata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Matata » Mar 5, 2004
    Rand_alThor,

    Your fundamental question is intriquing and as impossible to answer as the nature/nurture or "what came first, chicken or egg" debates. I am an example of your Child B. I grew up in a ghetto, alcoholic father, schizophrenic mother, violence all around. Most of my female peers followed the ghetto model -- pregnant by 16 and married to a copy of their fathers -- alcoholic/drug addicted, wife beaters and child molesters. The lessons I learned growing up were damn tough ones but I treasure each one -- even the rape at 11 and 2 attempted molestations by my father -- because they made me strong. My mother was a victim of domestic violence, watching my father beat her made me strong. I got out, was the first in the family (in many generations) to graduate high school and obtain an advanced degree. The only thing I can definitely attribute to breaking that chain is that as a child I loved to read. It provided an escape from the horror around me. Reading served as a springboard to my becoming a lifelong learner. I grasped onto knowledge because it was a lifeline that provided me an opportunity to escape a living situation that I abhored. And from that I learned that change was possible and frightening and comfortable, exciting and tedious, thrilling and boring. I evolved into an adult with strong leadership ability and I am known in my profession as a change agent.

    Traditional wisdom is useful to me when it serves my purposes; otherwise I'll push the envelope as far as I can to achieve whan I want when I want. Traditional wisdom is not static as part of your theory seems to suggest because those who effect societal change also influence change in traditional wisdom. You asked whether it's true "that everyone that gets older gets wiser, and you also asked if there is causality between age and experience. Yes to the latter and no to the former. I ended one of the first papers I published with this: "Knowledge is the sum total of facts you know; wisdom is the ability not to be blinded by the facts." One can be wise at any age.
     
  17. Rand_alThor
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rand_alThor » Mar 5, 2004
    F&I: Let me clarify. I'm talking about the differences between youthful thinking and non-youthful thinking( I couldn't find a better term). Any person regardless of age can think as a youth. I equate youthful thinking to change. why? In general as people get older they do get more rigid in their ideas and beliefs. They are also less susceptible to change and even more vary of propogating it. Hence the "familiarity breeds comfort".




    Let me try using a different example.


    In my late twenties I can easily pick up a new sport like moutain biking and expand upon it, maybe even invent something, hence furthur change. Yes Matata you are right. The process is cyclic. Once change is brought forth and accepted it enters the land of traditional wisdom and furthur innovations and idea generating is necessary to propogate change.




    In my late fifties I WONT go mounatin biking. I will be less likely to take more risk and therefore will be a smaller driver of change.




    In this example I have to think youthful to try mountain biking at 50. My wife then may think I'm completely crazy and may call me immature but its the same youthful attitude that I say drives change. Change not only to society but also to self and to people around. Again dont translate my words to youth vs old but to thinking and wanting to think young to drive yourself and people around yourself forward. To me "thinking and wanting to think young to drive yourself and people around yourself forward" is not im-maturity.




    Matata , I have nothing but respect for you and the way you have handled yourself. To me the way you have managed yourself, your growth and your experiences is clearly a definition of youthful thinking. You drove change


    into your life and chose not be a part of the ghetto model that your female peers fell into. They followed the traditional approach and you didn't.
     
  18. Matata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Matata » Mar 5, 2004
    Well, now I have a clearer picture of your definition of youthful thinking. It's a semantics thing -- what you define as youthful thinking I define as mature thinking. No big deal -- we're speaking the same language but using different terms.

    You said: "In my late fifties I WONT go mounatin biking. I will be less likely to take more risk and therefore will be a smaller driver of change.
    In this example I have to think youthful to try mountain biking at 50."

    From my perspective, you're thinking more maturely by weighing the risks of participating in a sport at an age where you may not heal as quickly from injuries as you do in your 20s. If you choose to participate at 50, I'd still call that mature because you weighed the risks and choose to accept them. I'm not sure I agree that your choice would make you "a smaller driver of change" simply because I don't like to quantify things. Big change, small change -- makes no difference as long as there is change.

    Cheers,
    M.
     
  19. Nicrez
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Nicrez » Mar 5, 2004
    Matata, I echo Rand in saying...nothing but respect for you and how you handled your situation. I agree with you, that your actions were "mature", far beyond those around you. THeir immaturity would be the fact that their mistakes never brought a positive change to their lives, whereas, you maturity allowed that change to affect you for the better and maybe even those around you. You are an inspiration t those in adversity.




    I was never perfect, and although my childhood was generally happy, adversity as a child gave me the impetus to change, for the better. Still, I can claim I made choices in life that where just plain WRONG, but i did learn from them, and continue to do so, and I deal with those repercussions everyday.




    That said, I still have to say that "maturity" is not physical alone. If at 50 you decide to write a book about philosophy say...that is a radical and constructive, mature way of dealing with personal issues, that can be mature. Some people at 50 are blessed with the physical prowess to white water raft, etc...




    I applaud them for the effort to do so, though I would not likely. my new changes and adventures would most likely be internal growths of skills, language, the arts, travel, discussion, etc. i have always just been more cerebral than physcial, though some years of my life were spent seriously involved in a sport (rowing). I enjoyed it immensely and would I do it at 50, YES! Is that immature? Not if I know my limitations and responsibily act within those limitations, knowing there are risks.




    If I capsized, broke my hip and was terminally effected, then I would have to live with those consequences. But If i was confident in my condition to do so, and still did, and nothing happen, than I am adventurous. People should NEVER lose that sense of adventure, but the truly "mature" know to what extend that is possible and don't stop pushing the envelope, but start pushing it in ways their bodies CAN handle, and perhaps let their minds do the PUSHING...




    I one day hope to be that famous writer I always wanted to be as a kid...(perhaps I will never be a princess, ballerina AND CEO of Chanel in one) but maturity is knowing yourself well enough to know what is possible, and pushing yourself to the outmost limits, mentally, spiritually, and sometimes physically. I know amyn women in their later 50's who start yoga. That's pushing, but more like stretching....[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  20. winyan
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by winyan » Mar 5, 2004
    There is a lot of difference between 'maturity' and aging...aging is something that happens to everyone, becoming mature doesn't necessarily follow.

    The fact that one becomes physically mature doesn't necessarily follow that one will become intellectually or emotionally mature...as a matter of fact, there are plenty of folk who never emotionally mature.

    Personally I don't care if I age, perhaps because I'm lucky enough seemingly to do it gracefully. However I *don't* want to get staid in mind. Anything *but* that!

    win
     
  21. fire&ice
    Ideal_Rock

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    by fire&ice » Mar 5, 2004
    The biking analogy just cracked me up. You guys are sooooo young. First, it's macho at my age to "hurt". Secondly, you *do* hurt...and not like a 20 year old!

    Rand, I still think we are on the same page...just saying things differently - and certainly w/ a different spin.

    But, when you say "rigid" in thinking - some of that somes from a "maturity" of thought process. To reread my first thoughts - at my age, am I more cognitive of change - and think it through more - or ....?

    In many respects age is like a diamond, you gain more facets - it's how those facets are aligned that make the difference in how finely you are cut.

    I've got to ask - where are you going with this & why?

    Interesting people are a funny nut. Interseting people think. I was "engaged" to someone who told me I thought too much. My hubby of 20 years thinks that trait - it is not only the most frustrating/challenging thing about me - it's the most endearing/sexy. And, most importantly - those things are *never* etched in stone.
    Thinking is just that.

    You guys crack me up. Thinking is not a bad thing.
     
  22. hoorray
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    by hoorray » Mar 5, 2004
    I can't begin to enter this discussion at this point except to say, that you have a great "thinking" repartee going -- that's a great thing! and, I just have to add that my husband had minor surgery last month with the hope that he can get back to mountain biking soon! (and he is a fair amount older than I am...)

    keep at it.....
     
  23. glitterata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by glitterata » Mar 6, 2004
    You're talking about taking risks versus being cautious. What does that have to do with age?
     
  24. tessa
    Shiny_Rock

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    by tessa » Mar 7, 2004
    My mind is still WAY WAY younger than my body.

    I don't think that will ever change!
     
  25. phoenixgirl
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    by phoenixgirl » Mar 12, 2004
    I think from about the age of 16 I was ready to be an independent woman. College was kind of a drag waiting to get out on my own.

    Being a teacher, age plays an interesting role in the interactions of the faculty. I am closer in age to my students than many of my coworkers. I try very hard to hide this fact from the students. I think it's worked, because a couple of times students have speculated about my age, and they always think I'm older than I am. Once a kid even said, "Well, you're not as young as Ms. Crane, she's only 24!" (Stupid Ms. Crane telling them how old she is).

    I would keep my age from my coworkers if I could. When I mentioned something about my boyfriend and somebody asked why we weren't engaged yet, another teacher said, "Because she's like twelve." Of course, she's a bitter, unmarried 32 year old (who has a horrible dye job and dresses very provocatively, and who even slow-danced with a student at the homecoming dance!), so maybe that's why. My first year of teaching, the veteran teacher across the hall actually called me "little girl," and the department chair always called me, "sweetie." That didn't really make me feel like I was their peer, but at least they were used endearingly.

    So anyway, I have always been excited to be one year older. I still am. I turn 24 next month, and that seems much more mid-twentiesish, and much more acceptable for getting married than 23.
     
  26. Nicrez
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    by Nicrez » Mar 12, 2004
    Phoenix girl, I am a lot like you in that respect. I always wanted to be older, and slowly but surely, I am getting there...I still think I am 23 sometimes though, and I'm not...When I was 23, I could swear I was 24...I always rounded up in age, and by 16 I had planned out my life, my goals and my children! I was such a serious girl about some thigns, like smoking and drinking (I didn't drink until I was 21, because it was illegal, and I had decied at 16 I wanted to go to law school, and I couldn't swear in at the Bar without a guilty conscience if I broke a law)[​IMG]




    I was confused for someone who was older, always not because I LOOKED it (I looked 12 and sort of still do, it's my baby face...) but I always dressed professionally and worked in offices, and all my friend were ALWAYS older than me, but I seemed to act older than them! LOL I have a feeling one day I will wish I was younger, but until then I say enjoy your age at every stage, because it never comes back!! (like our boobs!) [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  27. phoenixgirl
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    by phoenixgirl » Mar 14, 2004
    That's funny Nicrez, I didn't drink until I was 21 either! Well, I must admit that when hanging out with the 20/30 somethingish friends that I had even in college, I would have a glass of wine at a dinner party, but I never bought alcohol or drank at any of my sorority functions or on my college campus. In my case, though, I think it was because I was taken in by a cultish youth organization in high school that turned me somewhat puritanical until the end of college. And then by that point I had turned 21 anyway.

    When I told my vice principal that I sometimes wondered if I would have fewer discipline problems if I were older, she said that she didn't think of me as being some fresh out of college teacher because I seemed older. She even juxtaposed me with another teacher (always wearing sneakers and sweatshirts on Fridays when we're allowed to wear jeans) who comes across as really young. I do look really young though, but I think my glasses help.
     
  28. sumi
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    by sumi » Mar 15, 2004



    Ha ha ha! TRUST ME, there were a lot of people at my swearing in ceremony that did a lot worse than just underage drinking. Don't let your imagination go wild now, they hadn't done anything THAT bad, but you'd be surprised....(and NO, I was NOT one of those people, I am a goody-goody by nature[​IMG])
     
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