strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/12/earlyshow/main4595179.shtml
This is an outrage!!!
This is an outrage!!!
wall street bonuses to be paid out of bailout money
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JSM
Brilliant_Rock
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This is disappointing. People like my fiance have to lose health benefits because of "excessive costs to the company", meanwhile others get BONUS money... paid for by our taxes.
I hate to whine, because at this point we are lucky he is still employed (*knocks on wood*), but sometimes I just want to be the kid that falls to the ground and kicks and screams, "It''s not FAIR!"
I hate to whine, because at this point we are lucky he is still employed (*knocks on wood*), but sometimes I just want to be the kid that falls to the ground and kicks and screams, "It''s not FAIR!"
NewEnglandLady
Ideal_Rock
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What a crock of crap--the whole point of playing the market is the risk. If you do well, you get nice payouts. If you lose, you LOSE. THAT''S THE RISK!
This is why I can''t take brokers--we don''t even talk to the broker assigned to us through our brokerage account. If brokers believed in a stock, they''d invest in it themselves and be wealthy instead of telling other people where to put their money.
This is why I can''t take brokers--we don''t even talk to the broker assigned to us through our brokerage account. If brokers believed in a stock, they''d invest in it themselves and be wealthy instead of telling other people where to put their money.
Allisonfaye
Brilliant_Rock
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Didn't you already post this story once?
Well, my husband works for one of these companies (not one being bailed out) and they AREN'T getting bonuses this year so maybe this will help some people feel better. Everyone is so mad at all of these people because of how much they get paid but they have no idea the long hours and hard work some of these guys put in. My husband works all day and then comes home, eats dinner and starts all over again. He works on the weekends too. He paid his own way to go to college, got his CPA when he graduated and put himself through one of the top grad schools in the country. I could go on and on but I will just leave it at that.
And if you want to be mad at someone, be mad at Barney Frank, too. Wasn't HE very instrumental in supporting the subprime housing market? As far as I am concerned, he has a lot of nerve pointing the finger at anyone.
Well, my husband works for one of these companies (not one being bailed out) and they AREN'T getting bonuses this year so maybe this will help some people feel better. Everyone is so mad at all of these people because of how much they get paid but they have no idea the long hours and hard work some of these guys put in. My husband works all day and then comes home, eats dinner and starts all over again. He works on the weekends too. He paid his own way to go to college, got his CPA when he graduated and put himself through one of the top grad schools in the country. I could go on and on but I will just leave it at that.
And if you want to be mad at someone, be mad at Barney Frank, too. Wasn't HE very instrumental in supporting the subprime housing market? As far as I am concerned, he has a lot of nerve pointing the finger at anyone.
decodelighted
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More WELFARE for the rich. BAH!!! Unbelievable. New York mag did a "recession hardships of the super wealthy" article that was eye-rolling. They work hard? Long hours? WHO DOESN''T? Its a gamble of a career and sometimes that gamble doesn''t pay off -- oopsie. YOU gambled with your families lives & futures ... not THE GOVERNMENT. Maybe you should have been saving some of that fat cash for a rainy day instead of adding that pool or boat or vacation home or stuffing the overflowing shelves of your custom closets with hand-stitched suits and a rainbow of Balenciaga bags.
The "we''re gonna lose our top talent if we don''t pay them" excuse just doesn''t cut it for me. The unemployment rate is through the roof. GO AHEAD AND LEAVE you dumb******. There''s a line around the block for your jobs.
I cannot stomach the entitlement complexes that flourish among the very same people who are whining about unemployment benefits extended for laid-off factory workers or food stamps for starving kids IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. Trade places with them whydontcha? And huddle for warmth inside your curled tattered MBA for a while. Le Sigh.
**headexploding**
The "we''re gonna lose our top talent if we don''t pay them" excuse just doesn''t cut it for me. The unemployment rate is through the roof. GO AHEAD AND LEAVE you dumb******. There''s a line around the block for your jobs.
I cannot stomach the entitlement complexes that flourish among the very same people who are whining about unemployment benefits extended for laid-off factory workers or food stamps for starving kids IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. Trade places with them whydontcha? And huddle for warmth inside your curled tattered MBA for a while. Le Sigh.
**headexploding**
decodelighted
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ring ring ... it''s Joe The Plumber. He says this sounds like SOCIALISM to him!!
decodelighted
Super_Ideal_Rock
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For the record, my rant isn''t directed at you or your husband, Allisonfaye. I *personally* am not angry at people who make a ton of cash, whether or not they work super hard for it. What I find *enraging* is the whining when people gamble & LOSE. Its like trying to ask a casino for your money back -- or, in this case, ask the taxpayers to spot you for a while! Or just give you $$.
Those who aren''t exploiting the bail out funds get a big ol'' "live & let live" pass from me.
JSM
Brilliant_Rock
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Great rant, decodelighted! I don''t know many people who DON''T work hard and put in long hours.
I feel sometimes like the "rich" complain about the poor feeling entitled, while from the outside it looks like they feel they are quite entitled themselves! No one in a FAILING company deserves BONUS money!
I feel sometimes like the "rich" complain about the poor feeling entitled, while from the outside it looks like they feel they are quite entitled themselves! No one in a FAILING company deserves BONUS money!
CDNinNYC
Ideal_Rock
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Thank you.
If my FI doesn't lose his job by the end of the year, as more layoffs are expected, and receives a bonus it's because he darn well earned it. He works his a$$ off. Just yesterday he worked all through the night coming home at 7:30 this morning only to start work again 2.5hrs later. Weekends are completely non-existent. Believe me when I say this is the norm. So if his firm, who did not need a bailout but was forced by the government to accept one, wants to pay him a bonus, I say go right ahead.
ETA: If this is me being 'entitled', so be it. I would like to know who would refuse a bonus, most especially when you're worked to the bone.
brooklyngirl
Brilliant_Rock
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I don't have any problem at all with investment bankers getting bonuses (even hefty ones) if their company can afford it, and deems the amount worthy of the work done.
What I find to be enraging is the fact that the fed gave out billions in bailout money to companies without stipulating what it was to be used for. I understand the need for a bailout for some of these companies, but it’s one thing put conditions on the money, and quite another to say “we hope you use it to issue loans, or buy other failing banks, but you have no obligation to do so legally.”
While I understand that investment bankers work extremely hard, and have don’t get a lot of time to themselves, it’s no secret to anyone that it comes with the job. People who work in IB knew this before they chose that as a career path, and they know that it is still a gamble to be in this industry. If they lose the gamble, they shouldn’t expect a bailout from Uncle Sam.
Americans are mad at their government, and rightfully so – the very people (or banks, rather) who caused this crisis in the first place are being given money from the pockets of those that were screwed by this mortgage mess. The only real loser here are the American taxpayers, homeowners, and mortgage holders, and they’re losing twice! Talk about redistribution of wealth-- form the bottom to the very top!
What I find to be enraging is the fact that the fed gave out billions in bailout money to companies without stipulating what it was to be used for. I understand the need for a bailout for some of these companies, but it’s one thing put conditions on the money, and quite another to say “we hope you use it to issue loans, or buy other failing banks, but you have no obligation to do so legally.”
While I understand that investment bankers work extremely hard, and have don’t get a lot of time to themselves, it’s no secret to anyone that it comes with the job. People who work in IB knew this before they chose that as a career path, and they know that it is still a gamble to be in this industry. If they lose the gamble, they shouldn’t expect a bailout from Uncle Sam.
Americans are mad at their government, and rightfully so – the very people (or banks, rather) who caused this crisis in the first place are being given money from the pockets of those that were screwed by this mortgage mess. The only real loser here are the American taxpayers, homeowners, and mortgage holders, and they’re losing twice! Talk about redistribution of wealth-- form the bottom to the very top!
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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"Gandel, who's a Money magazine senior writer and contributor to Time.com says, "Compensation should be down 70 percent but, because all this new money is coming from the government, the firms are now saying they can pay more, and so they're only going to cut bonuses by 40 percent."
What about one of my clients who has worked so hard she trashed her health trying to keep her business going that called me crying today and told me she cant pay the $150 she owes me that I very badly need because her company is bankrupt and she lost her house because wall street crashed the economy to get rich.
Where is her bonus she worked hard? Where is my bill money that she wasn't able to pay?
fleur-de-lis
Brilliant_Rock
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CDNinNYC
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I am truly sorry to hear about your client's difficulties. We are all going through difficult times.
My post was written in part with my frustration with the article posted. The article does not difinitively say these bonuses are being paid with bailout money. It riles people up based on suppositions.
Also, there are firms out there in Wall St. who CAN afford to pay (albet much smaller) bonuses to their employees yet are being lumped with those in crisis. These 'healthy' firms are also cutting staff by the end of the year, if they haven't already, due to their business projections for next year. Unfortunately, these individuals will not be receiving their bonuses, thereby possibly increasing the amounts for those who remain. So, instead of 70% reduction, there is only 40%. I am not saying I agree with this, but this is what is being done. My FI might be one of those laid off or he might be one of those retained. It is a gamble, as a previous poster said, he chose to take and he understood the risks.
miraclesrule
Ideal_Rock
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Deco: Our brain matter will congeal together on floor, because my head explodes with you.
As much as I hate to hear about people losing their jobs, even more so their pensions, it only angers me to the extent that the executives of the company were involved in risky and/or illegal activity that was not at all obvious to the average worker. This may sound a little harsh, but let's be honest, who among us would feel confident about our jobs if we worked 8, or even 14 hours a day at GM?
I think it was Obama's 30 minute infomercial that included a story about a 3rd generation autoworker for the same company....and I have to admit...as much as I cringed when my ex-boyfriend referred to somebody as a 3rd generation welfare recipient, the phrase came to mind.
If any thinking person sought to educate themselves of world events and market conditions, most people would continually question the direction of their industry, their company, and the vulnerability of their long-term job outlook. Certain circumstances warrant further investigation.
However, the amount of hubris it takes for extremely overpaid corporate executives who are directly responsible for the collapse of their business...to unjustly enrich themselves on taxpayer money....renders me speechless. I don't give a crap about whether or not they worked 20 hours a day, every day, for five years. If they destroyed the company with all the hard work they did, they don't deserve their paycheck, much less a bonus! They should be fired. No "exit package". Just a simple friggin' pinkslip.
Ellen: A very good question. What can we do about it? The citizens have to take back their country. It's not going to be easy and it's not going to be quick. We don't yet have the resources to "shock and awe", but I think we are making progress. I hope that Obama will remain focused on constitutional law, that his new transparent and inclusive government will open the doors for the public. I hope the public will remain diligent in demanding the separation of the government entanglement with the market. That with the current public pressure, the media focus and the beautiful technology of video cameras and YouTube will continue to expose those who would "seek to destroy" ...or for many of us...just those who would seek to make our heads explode.
As much as I hate to hear about people losing their jobs, even more so their pensions, it only angers me to the extent that the executives of the company were involved in risky and/or illegal activity that was not at all obvious to the average worker. This may sound a little harsh, but let's be honest, who among us would feel confident about our jobs if we worked 8, or even 14 hours a day at GM?
I think it was Obama's 30 minute infomercial that included a story about a 3rd generation autoworker for the same company....and I have to admit...as much as I cringed when my ex-boyfriend referred to somebody as a 3rd generation welfare recipient, the phrase came to mind.
If any thinking person sought to educate themselves of world events and market conditions, most people would continually question the direction of their industry, their company, and the vulnerability of their long-term job outlook. Certain circumstances warrant further investigation.
However, the amount of hubris it takes for extremely overpaid corporate executives who are directly responsible for the collapse of their business...to unjustly enrich themselves on taxpayer money....renders me speechless. I don't give a crap about whether or not they worked 20 hours a day, every day, for five years. If they destroyed the company with all the hard work they did, they don't deserve their paycheck, much less a bonus! They should be fired. No "exit package". Just a simple friggin' pinkslip.
Ellen: A very good question. What can we do about it? The citizens have to take back their country. It's not going to be easy and it's not going to be quick. We don't yet have the resources to "shock and awe", but I think we are making progress. I hope that Obama will remain focused on constitutional law, that his new transparent and inclusive government will open the doors for the public. I hope the public will remain diligent in demanding the separation of the government entanglement with the market. That with the current public pressure, the media focus and the beautiful technology of video cameras and YouTube will continue to expose those who would "seek to destroy" ...or for many of us...just those who would seek to make our heads explode.
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And we could all start to question just exactly WHY we all bought in to the idea that we should tie our long-term retirement monies to the STOCK MARKET, which is at it''s core GAMBLING. (And if this meltdown has shown anything, it has shown, yet again, how true that statement is.) The probable answers to that question serve up much to chew on and go to the heart of the underlying and mostly unspoken assumptions of our culture.
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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because we were supposed to all become part of the ownership society and thus we were told that we didn''t need those pesky retirement plans when the free market system would allow us all to become rich if we''d only invest in 401K''s instead.
movie zombie
movie zombie
LAJennifer
Ideal_Rock
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Nominated!!! Post of the year.
miraclesrule
Ideal_Rock
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Me three!!
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Yes, that and the Fed reduced interest rates to the point that no one could actually AFFORD to save (see Greenspan admitting to John Stewart that the Fed policies reward investing over work and SAVING and effectively drove money out of savings) and were pretty much forced into 401K''s and IRA''s. Talk about a forced redistribution of wealth! But no one wants to look at that one.
The 401k''s gave people this idea that they were saving for their retirement, when in reality they were gambling their money.
I remember the time when buying stocks - "playing the market" was considered something only the wealthy do. When the average person could/should not play there, or only in an extremely limited fashion. I remember how shocked I was when I found out my depression era aunt and uncle - a mechanic and stay at home mom, actually owned a few shares of a couple of stocks. And now we''re all supposed to "invest(gamble)" in the market. It''s assumed. Of couse what can you do when companies no longer have pensions?
A number of firms that were bailed out did accrue earnings and profits. Since money is fungible, we can''t tell whether the bonuses are being paid out of e&p or bailout money. I agree that bonuses should not be paid out of the latter, but we can''t jump to conclusions that that is indeed the case.
Demelza
Ideal_Rock
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With all due respect, this argument doesn''t make sense to me. If they''ve got enough money from their earnings and profits to be paying out bonuses, why were they given bailout money? The bailout wasn''t a reward. These companies should be tightening their belts just like the rest of us and it''s outrageous the government isn''t holding them accountable for how they''re spending OUR money.
stone_seeker
Shiny_Rock
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Look, the reality is if you dont pay wall street people bonuses, they have no incentive to work there. 2/3 of their money is in their bonus. If these people leave, any major company around the world that needs money wont be able to get it. you wont be able to invest in markets, earn money on your money, etc. Then everyone loses.
There have been massive job losses in financial services and compensation will be lower this year and probably for a few more years in the future. but saying the bailout money shouldnt go toward paying any salaries is ludicrous. Why dont you forgo all your comp this year and next and work for free in the name of taking one for the team of society? The average american who bought too much house is just as culpable as the wall street banker who sold him the mortgage.
So I say, keep paying them if those people can help resurrect the economy.
There have been massive job losses in financial services and compensation will be lower this year and probably for a few more years in the future. but saying the bailout money shouldnt go toward paying any salaries is ludicrous. Why dont you forgo all your comp this year and next and work for free in the name of taking one for the team of society? The average american who bought too much house is just as culpable as the wall street banker who sold him the mortgage.
So I say, keep paying them if those people can help resurrect the economy.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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tough toto if the quit there are 10 standing in line for the job.
A bonus isn''t a right it is earned!
Wall Street sure didn''t earn any bonuses this round.
As far as that goes I consider 99% of wall street leaches who add no wealth and run companies and now the country into the ground.
Jail No BailOut!!!
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