wall st massacre....

[Linda W]

Date: 9/22/2008 12:13:11 PM
Author: swimmer
Well done Harriet, way to stay classy.

I agree!!!!!

 

[Beacon]

Date: 9/22/2008 12:00:52 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 9/22/2008 11:48:47 AM
Author: Harriet


Thank you for your confidence in me. We have to meet. Our hubbies, if they come along, can talk shop. We can just yammer away.

Well, of course I have confidence in you! I''m not stupid! I just have some kind of learning block when it comes to finance! When I read Liar''s Poker years ago I actually understood the difference between stocks and bonds for for a while. (My husband kept trying to explain about subordinated and unsubordinated debt, which didn''t work.) Unfortunately, I''d probably have to read the book at least once a year in order to keep it straight.

I know stock means equity which means owning part of something, but I ''ll be darned if I can understand a bond. This was very embarrassing when my husband was a bond analyst for Standard & Poor''s. I had to fudge my way through many a business function .

At any rate, my point was that when we get together and yammer, just don''t talk to me about bonds or hedge funds, OK? I am really not up to that .


Hugs,
Deb

This affliction is real and does not make you stupid at all! My sister has the exact same problem. She is smart, Harvard educated and a very successful, multi published fiction writer. Despite this, I get calls from her all the time expressing her frustration with comprehending basic finance issues. Worse, she lives in the UK so the terms a somewhat different than US. Ack, she and I go round and round trying to nail down certain points.

Here is an easy comparision in bond vs stock. Your home: you own your home, that is an equity position, like owning a stock. Your mortgage: You borrowed money from the bank and pledged your house as collateral. Your mortgage is like a bond, the bank owns your mortgage, you own your house. You are like the corporation issuing the bond. You have to pay your mortgage each month, just like a corporation has to pay the interest on the bonds they issue.

 

[Harriet]

Swimmer and Linda,
Thanks.

Deb,
As for sub vs. unsubordinated debt, the key difference is that the latter gets preference in the event of liquidation.

Beacon,
Maybe we should stop torturing poor Deb!

 

[Beacon]

heh, heh, sorry about that!

 

[Eva17]

impressive,

i am in the company of so many smarty pants

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 9/22/2008 8:03:59 AM
Author: tradergirl
Hey Harriet (and Diamondfan for that matter)


Here's your future.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/622acc9e-87f1-11dd-b114-0000779fd18c.html


but it was nice while it lasted no?

Thanks, Trader Girl! I find you to be quite offensive. You do not know anything about my business or my husband's. So please refrain from discussing anything about me!

 

[Beth]

Harriet, it sounds like a very timely shift in focus for your legal career. May you continue to prosper. Maybe your DH can get it through my head what a franking credit is. My DH tries to explain at least once per year but it never sticks.

 

[Harriet]

Thanks, Beth. I can, if you want me too.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 9/22/2008 2:18:24 PM
Author: diamondfan

Date: 9/22/2008 8:03:59 AM
Author: tradergirl
Hey Harriet (and Diamondfan for that matter)


Here's your future.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/622acc9e-87f1-11dd-b114-0000779fd18c.html


but it was nice while it lasted no?

Thanks, Trader Girl! I find you to be quite offensive. You do not know anything about my business or my husband's. So please refrain from discussing anything about me!

Tradergirl,
I know what Mr. Diamondfan does. This market is actually good for his business, even though Diamondfan is not gloating about it. Sorry, but you'll have to indulge your schadenfreude elsewhere.

 

[Beacon]

I think a franking credit has to do with taxation upon dividends. The person getting the dividend can get a credit for taxes already paid by the corporation. We don''t do this in the US. We do get tax credit for taxes withheld on foreign divs but that''s not nearly as good.

 

[Harriet]

Oops I thought Beth was cursing. I should have known to expect better from that dear lady.

Beacon,
Do you think a change in the US system of double (more like multiple) taxation will help?

 

[Beacon]

Date: 9/22/2008 3:36:46 PM
Author: Harriet
Oops I thought Beth was cursing. I should have known to expect better from that dear lady.

Beacon,
Do you think a change in the US system of double (more like multiple) taxation will help?

Ha ha ha!! I get it.

Dividend taxation - I dunno. We got some relief with the Bush tax policy that limited taxation of divs to 15%. Love that policy. It will expire and I doubt they''ll renew, especially now as government is rather short of funds. Sigh.

Of course it is a good thing not to double tax divs. Companies will issue more of them for one thing. Stocks will be more attractive to individual investors.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 9/22/2008 3:59:56 PM
Author: Beacon
Ha ha ha!! I get it.

Dividend taxation - I dunno. We got some relief with the Bush tax policy that limited taxation of divs to 15%. Love that policy. It will expire and I doubt they'll renew, especially now as government is rather short of funds. Sigh.

Of course it is a good thing not to double tax divs. Companies will issue more of them for one thing. Stocks will be more attractive to individual investors.

That's what I though. Ok, let's write a policy proposal to the Pres.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/22/2008 3:36:46 PM
Author: Harriet
Oops I thought Beth was cursing. I should have known to expect better from that dear lady.

Nahhh, Beth just need some Marlboro Lights.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wa Mu....gone with the wind !!

 

[Harriet]

I wonder who''s buying the assets.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/26/2008 12:51:56 AM
Author: Harriet
I wonder who's buying the assets.

JP Morgan Chase

 

[Harriet]

They are buying the deposit and some branches. The fate of WaMu''s remainder is not known.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

With the bailout plan falling through, today is going to be U-G-L-Y on Wall St.

Ugh, I wish I''d just sold everything yesterday afternoon, but when the market closed the deal seemed air tight. *grumble grumble*

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/26/2008 12:51:56 AM
Author: Harriet

I wonder who's buying the assets.

When I read the newspaper this morning it fleshed out what I had seen on the 'net last night. Yes, as we all now know, J.P.Morgan Chase did the buying, but the article mentioned the stocks and the bonds. One of them is not going to be repaid in full. Probably bonds? Stock values can just drop to nothing anyway, after all. Liquidation seems to have arrived and now is the time to know whether subordinated debt or unsubordinated debt is going to repaid first. At least if one is holding Washington Mutual stocks or bonds.


Deb

 

[dragonfly411]

It''s sad that this is becoming common vs. making headline topics in here. Scary too. We''re just waiting for the next one day in and day out....

 

[Beacon]

I believe they are buying the deposits, the assets and some branches. For a bank deposits are liabilities, assets are the loans.

Wamu is one of my banks and today the website says "Welcome to JP Morgan". They were pretty normal when I went there last night. The clerks looked grave, but the business transacted normally.

 

[tradergirl]

And here is another vision of the future for the NY/Wall Street hedge fund and private equity masters of the universe and all that catered to them. Might be a few lean years for Mr. Mege coming down the pipe. Can''t say I''m too upset about it. I make my money in the markets but I have to use my own skills, not inside information or other "tools" of the hedge fund industry:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/27/AR2008092701572.html?hpid=topnews

 

[strmrdr]

What stinks is everyone knew this was coming but did nothing.
It boils down to low interest rates, too much credit and bank interest rates that were below inflation forced people into risky investments that some crooks were happy to supply.
It all comes to rest on the federal reserve kissing wall streets fanny instead of looking out for the people.
In trying to save wall street we the people have allready paid the price and now will pay 700 billion more.
I am willing to bet that it has already cost the American people 100s of trillions of dollars in over valued homes, low interest on savings and now the failure and bail out.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/18/2008 9:15:17 PM
Author: Harriet
Temporary ban on short selling!

They need to make that permanent or tax it to death.
All it does is hurt the long term investors.

 

[strmrdr]

The problem isn''t the problem its telling people about the problem that is the problem?!?!?!?!?!?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202688.html

Why are we bailing out these crooks again?????

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/28/2008 12:58:43 PM
Author: strmrdr
What stinks is everyone knew this was coming but did nothing.
It boils down to low interest rates, too much credit and bank interest rates that were below inflation forced people into risky investments that some crooks were happy to supply.
It all comes to rest on the federal reserve kissing wall streets fanny instead of looking out for the people.
In trying to save wall street we the people have allready paid the price and now will pay 700 billion more.
I am willing to bet that it has already cost the American people 100s of trillions of dollars in over valued homes, low interest on savings and now the failure and bail out.

Amen and amen to that.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/28/2008 1:22:10 PM
Author: strmrdr
The problem isn''t the problem its telling people about the problem that is the problem?!?!?!?!?!?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202688.html

Why are we bailing out these crooks again?????

Doesn''t bode well for any real reforms, does it?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/28/2008 1:32:27 PM
Author: ksinger

Date: 9/28/2008 1:22:10 PM

Author: strmrdr

The problem isn't the problem its telling people about the problem that is the problem?!?!?!?!?!?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202688.html


Why are we bailing out these crooks again?????

Doesn't bode well for any real reforms, does it?

nope it doesn't.
Wall Street has become more important than the people to the politicians.

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 9/28/2008 1:05:37 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 9/18/2008 9:15:17 PM

Author: Harriet

Temporary ban on short selling!

They need to make that permanent or tax it to death.

All it does is hurt the long term investors.

I could NOT agree more guys!