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Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
As I posted in CF's thread, I don't often post on LIW. I'm generally just not patient enough so I avoid the forum.

But over the couple of months ... I've been wandering.

And I have a question. Why does it seem to be such a taboo to tell another woman to leave a man? Why does it seem that women are always advising others to 'be patient' and to 'put up' with the crap that comes their way? It doesn't matter if the woman is being unreasonable and demanding, the guy is being a a jerk, or if the two just aren't right for each other through no one's fault. It always seems to be "be patient"....


Sometimes that's the correct advise. Granted. And it IS hard to understand what is going on from a couple of sentences in a post. But, what personally drives me batty is that the advice doesn't seem to differ too much, even though the facts (once they are posted) of each poster's situations are vastly different.

Why do we continually goad each other into holding on to hope that might be long gone, into subrogating our desires completely in favor of another's needs, and into continuing unhealthy patterns of behavior?

I'm just geniunely baffled. I admittedly have probably advised, IRL, more women (and men) to leave unhealthy relationships than most because I don't ascribe to the 'wait it out and see' philosophy. If there is a reason for waiting, great, a geniune reason like... "I cheated on him, but we are trying to see if we can move past that before we get married." Or, " he treats me like a queen and loves me but he doesn't have a job and is a dreamer but is making sincere life changes (like going back to school) and I'm waiting to see if he's willing to stick to it before I get married, get a mortgage, and possibly have kids with the guy." But when the writing is on the wall... WHY tell the person to 'wait'?

ETA: (I realize that most did not, once the facts were known, thanks to Freke, continue to give this advice in CF's post, it's just a general observation, nott a specific one. And I could admittedly be cranky from lack of sleep).
 

Efe

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
773
Date: 4/2/2009 1:47:43 PM
Author:Gypsy

I''m just geniunely baffled. I admittedly have probably advised, IRL, more women (and men) to leave unhealthy relationships than most because I don''t ascribe to the ''wait it out and see'' philosophy. If there is a reason for waiting, great, a geniune reason like... ''I cheated on him, but we are trying to see if we can move past that before we get married.'' Or, '' he treats me like a queen and loves me but he doesn''t have a job and is a dreamer but is making sincere life changes (like going back to school) and I''m waiting to see if he''s willing to stick to it before I get married, get a mortgage, and possibly have kids with the guy.'' But when the writing is on the wall... WHY tell the person to ''wait''?

ETA: (I realize that most did not, once the facts were known, thanks to Freke, continue to give this advice in CF''s post, it''s just a general observation, but a specific one).
I think that, in some cases, it is a reflection of what is going on in their own lives and relationships. Kind of hard to give advice to leave and not look in the mirror. KWIM?
 

isaku5

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
3,296
Date: 4/2/2009 1:47:43 PM
Author:Gypsy
As I posted in CF''s thread, I don''t often post on LIW. I''m generally just not patient enough so I avoid the forum.

But over the couple of months ... I''ve been wandering.

And I have a question. Why does it seem to be such a taboo to tell another woman to leave a man? Why does it seem that women are always advising others to ''be patient'' and to ''put up'' with the crap that comes their way? It doesn''t matter if the woman is being unreasonable and demanding, the guy is being a a jerk, or if the two just aren''t right for each other through no one''s fault. It always seems to be ''be patient''....


Sometimes that''s the correct advise. Granted. And it IS hard to understand what is going on from a couple of sentences in a post. But, what personally drives me batty is that the advice doesn''t seem to differ too much, even though the facts (once they are posted) of each poster''s situations are vastly different.

Why do we continually goad each other into holding on to hope that might be long gone, into subrogating our desires completely in favor of another''s needs, and into continuing unhealthy patterns of behavior?

I''m just geniunely baffled. I admittedly have probably advised, IRL, more women (and men) to leave unhealthy relationships than most because I don''t ascribe to the ''wait it out and see'' philosophy. If there is a reason for waiting, great, a geniune reason like... ''I cheated on him, but we are trying to see if we can move past that before we get married.'' Or, ''he doesn''t have a job and is a dreamer but is making sincere life changes (like going back to school) and I''m waiting to see if he''s willing to stick to it before I get married, get a mortgage, and possibly have kids with the guy.'' But when the writing is on the wall... WHY tell the person to ''wait''?
ITA!!! I was going to post something like this a few months back, but being the ''dinosaur'' here (according to DancingFire''s poll a while back), thought that it might be inappropriate for me to offer my thoughts (''times have changed, granny'' blah, blah, blah...)

Since I have 65+ years of experience in living, I feel I should have enough seniority to offer an opinion (and it is just my opinion, fwiw). I told my hubby early in our marriage not to bother sneaking around; let me know and that''s the end of it. During those early years, I had prepared myself for financial independence, just in case. I like to cover all contingencies.

For those LIW, if you don''t have a proposal within one year of living together, move out. If the diamond he can afford is only the size of the head of a pin, accept it in the good faith that it was offered.

If children are involved before marriage, get DNA proof of the father. It''s a little on the expensive side right now, but it might come in handy later. How hard can it be to get a strand of hair from any part of his body?

Oh, one last thing - if there is abuse of any kind from either person, leave after the first incident and don''t be lured back by any promises of better behaviour - it won''t happen!

Okay, I''m stepping off my soapbox now.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
The most callous, general observation is that married women say "cut your losses!" and single women say "keep hope alive!" Though I''d guess advice stems directly from people''s own experiences & perspective &, sometimes, secret wishes.

At one time in one''s life -- most everything seems able to be overcome, if you''re just "good" enough ... or patient enough ... or want it badly enough. Once the cruel truth of the matter reveals itself its hard to even TOLERATE that state of oblivious hope, much less be hoodwinked by it.

If you haven''t directly experienced an "easy", fully mutual loving relationship where both people are on the same page and navigating toward the same harbor -- you don''t know how WORTH waiting for that is. How *anything* less is going to make the rocky, complicated landscape of marriage + life''s epic challenges = impossible.

Ooof. I feel your frustration. Some days I have the energy for breath wasting some days I don''t.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
This is true, Bizou. And I suppose that''s why when a poster who is not in that situation jumps in to be TRULY helpful instead of just to be complicit in maintaining the status qou, they are accused of being ''mean.''

That''s sad. That why I LOVE our BWW board. Because it isn''t just a bunch of stresed out brides perpetuating each other''s mindset, we have newly married ladies and long time married ladies who wade in and provide prospective and help the brides retain their sanity and see the big picture. Other bridal boards that I''ve been on have just been insane. And I guess that''s why this board is so weird for me. A lot of people who post on other boards, and who have a lot of good sense and perspective DON''T post here, so the LIW (in my opinion) seem to re-enforce each other''s ''trapped in a maze'' mindset, instead of being able to help each other out of the labyrinth.
 

fieryred33143

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
6,689
Date: 4/2/2009 2:00:19 PM
Author: BizouMom
I think that, in some cases, it is a reflection of what is going on in their own lives and relationships. Kind of hard to give advice to leave and not look in the mirror. KWIM?
That''s exactly what I was thinking about.

When I read a post from someone I try to remember that a lot of my history with my FI is posted on this forum and I don''t want to be viewed as a hypocrite. If I read something that is written that mirrors something I''ve gone through myself with my FI, it is very hard for me to tell that person to leave because I didn''t when I went through it. Does that make sense?

Plus we have a wide range of people on here from kick a$$ ladies who don''t take any crap to doormats and just about everyone in between. So opinions will always vary.
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
19,456
Date: 4/2/2009 2:19:16 PM
Author: Gypsy
That''s sad. That why I LOVE our BWW board. Because it isn''t just a bunch of stresed out brides perpetuating each other''s mindset, we have newly married ladies and long time married ladies who wade in and provide prospective and help the brides retain their sanity and see the big picture. Other bridal boards that I''ve been on have just been insane. And I guess that''s why this board is so weird for me. A lot of people who post on other boards, and who have a lot of good sense and perspective DON''T post here, so the LIW (in my opinion) seem to re-enforce each other''s ''trapped in a maze'' mindset, instead of being able to help each other out of the labyrinth.
GIANT DITTO.
 

girlie-girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
819
The problem I see with people coming and posting details about their relationship is the fact that the readers are only getting one side of the story, one person's view a situation that involves two people. Everybody knows we all interpret things differently and two people in the same situation can have drastically different interpretations of what happened. Both could be considered "true" as they each describe what they remembered.

With that said, of course people will encourage others to be patient or wait and see etc. because we're giving the other person the benefit of the doubt. In cases where there is obvious abuse then I agree we shouldn't say be patient, hold on. I think there is a bandwagon mentality a lot of the time and if someone posts in disagreement with the majority, they're jumped on. It seems as though only certain people are alllowed to speak against the majority, at least that's the way I've felt a time or two.

I honestly don't think anyone, no matter how good their intentions are, can give accurate advice on an internet forum to/about someone they've never met. We can give our gut feelings about things, we can also express similar experiences in hopes that others will learn from them. But since we rarely have both partners posting about the situation, it can be really counter productive and unfair since we are basing things off one person's perspective.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
I''m going to take a real leap here and guess that girlie girl is under 30


I can see why you would think that only getting one side might not be fair to the guy, but the truth is that the girl/woman posting about her guy is already censoring the bad that she''s posting. You''re right that we''re only getting the "half of it" but you''re wrong in thinking that other half might be "better". It''s usually far, far more depressing than the rose colored version that the lady is willing to post. Women don''t like to make themselves look needy, desperate, or codependent. I strongly suspect that in general if we saw the truth of the relationship in it''s entirety, we would recognize that it''s LESS hopeful than is being admitted.

You''ll notice a trend. Those of you in your 20''s still hoping are quick to say, "just wait" "give him time" "have hope".

Those of us in our 40''s and up see the same mistakes WE made. You know what they say...hindsight is 20/20.

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don''t waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it''s YOUR fault, not his.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198

Isaku, I do not think you are a dinosaur at all. In fact I agree with most of your points. And I think the reason many of our ‘regulars’ don’t post on LIW is because of what you (and Deco) posted. But I think maybe we do need to post here, because the different perspectives (from someone like you who has been married for an remarkable amount of time, to me who has been in a relationship for a while, but who is recently married) are needed here to keep this forum healthy. So maybe I’ll see you around on here more… I’m going to try to be more patient and to try to drop in more. And yes, I will probably be called mean, or whatever… but well, name calling just shows the mentality of the person doing it. If they can’t come up with something better to accuse me of. Oh well!


Deco, I’ve noticed your persistence and admired it. You have a greater level of tolerance than I do, and I think I’m gonna start popping in and ‘wasting my breathe’ too, with the hope that maybe it’s not always wasted. And… A BIG FAT DITTO to the rest of your post too.


PPear… You make a very vital point about the censoring we all do it, because we love them AND because we are protecting ourselves. No surprise, but huge ditto here too.


Will respond more later… after I’ve had a chance to do some work. LOL.
 

girlie-girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
819
Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I'm going to take a real leap here and guess that girlie girl is under 30


I can see why you would think that only getting one side might not be fair to the guy, but the truth is that the girl/woman posting about her guy is already censoring the bad that she's posting. You're right that we're only getting the 'half of it' but you're wrong in thinking that other half might be 'better'. It's usually far, far more depressing than the rose colored version that the lady is willing to post. Women don't like to make themselves look needy, desperate, or codependent. I strongly suspect that in general if we saw the truth of the relationship in it's entirety, we would recognize that it's LESS hopeful than is being admitted.

You'll notice a trend. Those of you in your 20's still hoping are quick to say, 'just wait' 'give him time' 'have hope'.

Those of us in our 40's and up see the same mistakes WE made. You know what they say...hindsight is 20/20.

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don't waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it's YOUR fault, not his.
Assuming does you no good. I am not under 30, not even near that side of 30. FYI I have been in failed relationships myself, stayed when I shouldn't have, married someone I shouldn't have, divorced and am now very happily married. So pardon me if I felt I could contribute.

I never said I assumed the other side was better and maybe people do censor when they post. I also never said we weren't being fair to the guy. We aren't being fair period! Has it ever crossed your mind that they're censoring what they've done as well... trying to show themselves in a better light? CF's thread is a perfect example. Her posts summarized by Freke could be interpreted two ways very easily. The begging, pleading, when are you going to marry me girlfriend who does things she doesn't really want to do, but does anyway and then resents him for it. Or the patiently waiting, loving, giving girlfriend who is being jerked around by empty promises and broken timelines, who always gives up her desires for those of someone else's. Come on already.

Once again it's painfully obvious to me that no matter what I post it's going to be wrong.... nm. I won't bother giving my opinion as it's obviously not pertinent.
 

princesss

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
8,035
Gypsy, isaku, Deco, PP...please stick around this forum. Even if they''re not directed at me, selfishly I love your posts because they give me perspective on my own relationship. I can sit here and think, "Hmmm, what would we do?" and learn from the situations on here. You ladies offer such helpful advice, even if the people you respond to don''t listen to you, there are those of us that do. I''m young, and a lot of the time all I''ve got to go on is my gut instinct and advice from people who have been there. With you ladies, I at least know there''s good advice coming.
 

Dreamgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,070
Date: 4/2/2009 3:16:04 PM
Author: girlie-girl
Assuming does you no good. I am not under 30, not even near that side of 30. FYI I have been in failed relationships myself, stayed when I shouldn''t have, married someone I shouldn''t have, divorced and am now very happily married. So pardon me if I felt I could contribute.

I never said I assumed the other side was better and maybe people do censor when they post. I also never said we weren''t being fair to the guy. We aren''t being fair period! Has it ever crossed your mind that they''re censoring what they''ve done as well... trying to show themselves in a better light? CF''s thread is a perfect example. Her posts summarized by Freke could be interpreted two ways very easily. The begging, pleading, when are you going to marry me girlfriend who does things she doesn''t really want to do, but does anyway and then resents him for it. Or the patiently waiting, loving, giving girlfriend who is being jerked around by empty promises and broken timelines, who always gives up her desires for those of someone else''s. Come on already.

Once again it''s painfully obvious to me that no matter what I post it''s going to be wrong.... nm. I won''t bother giving my opinion as it''s obviously not pertinent.
OH, You GO GIRL!
I value your opinion!
 

sammyj

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
1,247
Date: 4/2/2009 3:16:04 PM
Author: girlie-girl


Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I'm going to take a real leap here and guess that girlie girl is under 30


I can see why you would think that only getting one side might not be fair to the guy, but the truth is that the girl/woman posting about her guy is already censoring the bad that she's posting. You're right that we're only getting the 'half of it' but you're wrong in thinking that other half might be 'better'. It's usually far, far more depressing than the rose colored version that the lady is willing to post. Women don't like to make themselves look needy, desperate, or codependent. I strongly suspect that in general if we saw the truth of the relationship in it's entirety, we would recognize that it's LESS hopeful than is being admitted.

You'll notice a trend. Those of you in your 20's still hoping are quick to say, 'just wait' 'give him time' 'have hope'.

Those of us in our 40's and up see the same mistakes WE made. You know what they say...hindsight is 20/20.

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don't waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it's YOUR fault, not his.
Assuming does you no good. I am not under 30, not even near that side of 30. FYI I have been in failed relationships myself, stayed when I shouldn't have, married someone I shouldn't have, divorced and am now very happily married. So pardon me if I felt I could contribute.

I never said I assumed the other side was better and maybe people do censor when they post. I also never said we weren't being fair to the guy. We aren't being fair period! Has it ever crossed your mind that they're censoring what they've done as well... trying to show themselves in a better light? CF's thread is a perfect example. Her posts summarized by Freke could be interpreted two ways very easily. The begging, pleading, when are you going to marry me girlfriend who does things she doesn't really want to do, but does anyway and then resents him for it. Or the patiently waiting, loving, giving girlfriend who is being jerked around by empty promises and broken timelines, who always gives up her desires for those of someone else's. Come on already.

Once again it's painfully obvious to me that no matter what I post it's going to be wrong.... nm. I won't bother giving my opinion as it's obviously not pertinent.
girlie-girl, I like reading your posts and I find your opinions to be thoughtful, objective and considerate of the OP. I hope you continue to share your opinion.

As a so-called newbie, I just wanted to chime in and say that I don't think the "hang in there" and "be patient" posts have anything to do with the poster's age or the fact that they're an LIW, but a person's actual personality. I know many people who are all sunshine and rainbows and cannot give an negative opinion. It's just not inherent in them and they don't do it. They're optimists and they hope for the best but in no way does this imply they're giving a dishonest opinion and it's not valid. Yes, I completely agree that age and experience jades people and their advice can hold more weight because they mave have been there done that, but I don't think fluffiness, age and LIW status have direct correlations. There are plenty of LIW here that have been through a lot in their lives that don't perpetuate a 'trapped-mind mindset.'

In terms of being able to give someone honest advice that you are hoping they listen to and follow through with, I think many of the long-time PSers need to consider how their delivery. Do you really expect someone to get your point if your post consists of "Serious?
...You've got to be kidding me....
You're in a dream world.
You silly LIW
." Do you really find that helpful? Would lightbulbs go off for you if you read a post like that on a thread you started...regardless of your age or experience?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Date: 4/2/2009 3:16:04 PM
Author: girlie-girl



Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I'm going to take a real leap here and guess that girlie girl is under 30


I can see why you would think that only getting one side might not be fair to the guy, but the truth is that the girl/woman posting about her guy is already censoring the bad that she's posting. You're right that we're only getting the 'half of it' but you're wrong in thinking that other half might be 'better'. It's usually far, far more depressing than the rose colored version that the lady is willing to post. Women don't like to make themselves look needy, desperate, or codependent. I strongly suspect that in general if we saw the truth of the relationship in it's entirety, we would recognize that it's LESS hopeful than is being admitted.

You'll notice a trend. Those of you in your 20's still hoping are quick to say, 'just wait' 'give him time' 'have hope'.

Those of us in our 40's and up see the same mistakes WE made. You know what they say...hindsight is 20/20.

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don't waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it's YOUR fault, not his.
Assuming does you no good. I am not under 30, not even near that side of 30. FYI I have been in failed relationships myself, stayed when I shouldn't have, married someone I shouldn't have, divorced and am now very happily married. So pardon me if I felt I could contribute.

I never said I assumed the other side was better and maybe people do censor when they post. I also never said we weren't being fair to the guy. We aren't being fair period! Has it ever crossed your mind that they're censoring what they've done as well... trying to show themselves in a better light? CF's thread is a perfect example. Her posts summarized by Freke could be interpreted two ways very easily. The begging, pleading, when are you going to marry me girlfriend who does things she doesn't really want to do, but does anyway and then resents him for it. Or the patiently waiting, loving, giving girlfriend who is being jerked around by empty promises and broken timelines, who always gives up her desires for those of someone else's. Come on already.

Once again it's painfully obvious to me that no matter what I post it's going to be wrong.... nm. I won't bother giving my opinion as it's obviously not pertinent.
I think your opinion is valuable girl, and it does illustrate that we should try not to make assumptions about people based on their avs or their names and their posts, but instead ask. I hope you willl stick around, some of the best posts on PS period are when people agree to disagree, but I think we've all gotten a little tired of people threatening to leave just because someone disagrees with them or tries to be helpful then not leaving. So please either stick around and call us on it if we are unfair (which is what I really do hope you will do) or just take a quiet break and make a decision following that. The drama of all the people on LIW who leave (with much fanfare) and come back, only to leave and comeback again is what drives a lot of members of this forum to drink. Of course from the sounds of it we're driving you to drink too, so maybe in your case (and of course Gallateia's) it might be warranted.
 

tlh

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,511
It''s a lot easier to walk away when you have the next one lined up already.
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
6,181
Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM
Author: purrfectpear

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don''t waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it''s YOUR fault, not his.
100% truth!
 

ilovesparkles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,389
Date: 4/2/2009 3:17:16 PM
Author: princesss
Gypsy, isaku, Deco, PP...please stick around this forum. Even if they''re not directed at me, selfishly I love your posts because they give me perspective on my own relationship. I can sit here and think, ''Hmmm, what would we do?'' and learn from the situations on here. You ladies offer such helpful advice, even if the people you respond to don''t listen to you, there are those of us that do. I''m young, and a lot of the time all I''ve got to go on is my gut instinct and advice from people who have been there. With you ladies, I at least know there''s good advice coming.




PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! I miss Mara, she was around this forum before I left a few years ago. And Mara and Deco are what got me through my awful break up. I think the more experienced ladies insight is sooooo helpful. I was thinking the exact say thing as many of you. And agree whole heartedly. I always know when I see a thread about one of these tragedies, whatever deco says, is what should go! LOL
 

bee*

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
12,170
Date: 4/2/2009 3:58:35 PM
Author: Bia
Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM

Author: purrfectpear


In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don''t waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it''s YOUR fault, not his.
100% truth!
Yep, I think that this is true. Talk is definitely cheap, it''s action that matters.
In terms of people saying to stick it out, I think that others have made good points. I think that some people are optimists no matter what and they will always hope that it will work out. Others I think just don''t want to hear it and will give the "things will work out" posts again and again, maybe as someone else said, due to the fact that it could be looking in a mirror. Sometimes it does baffle me when reading posts that the OP cannot see what I''m seeing when I read it, but I suppose it''s different when you''re living in the situation.
 

CNOS128

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2,700
Yeah. You're braver than I am. I think about 30% of the relationship stories I read on LIW (and hear in real life for that matter) make me want to tell the storyteller to leave her boyfriend. But I mostly don't say anything, because of how poorly received I know it will be.

Sometimes, you don't need both side to know that someone's not being treated right, or isn't in a good situation. If both sides were necessary, I don't think psychotherapy would work very well.

By the way, this is not a commentary on any specific post or relationship, simply a general impression (and I haven't read the post to which Gypsy referred).



ETA: And I'm in my 20s. Only for a few months more, but still . . .
 

Dreamgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,070
Date: 4/2/2009 3:49:59 PM
Author: Gypsy



Date: 4/2/2009 3:16:04 PM
Author: girlie-girl





Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:36 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I'm going to take a real leap here and guess that girlie girl is under 30


I can see why you would think that only getting one side might not be fair to the guy, but the truth is that the girl/woman posting about her guy is already censoring the bad that she's posting. You're right that we're only getting the 'half of it' but you're wrong in thinking that other half might be 'better'. It's usually far, far more depressing than the rose colored version that the lady is willing to post. Women don't like to make themselves look needy, desperate, or codependent. I strongly suspect that in general if we saw the truth of the relationship in it's entirety, we would recognize that it's LESS hopeful than is being admitted.

You'll notice a trend. Those of you in your 20's still hoping are quick to say, 'just wait' 'give him time' 'have hope'.

Those of us in our 40's and up see the same mistakes WE made. You know what they say...hindsight is 20/20.

In other words, we see things as they ARE and judge actions, not just words. Words are cheap, but time is precious. Don't waste your lives away on pipe dreams. A woman is worth what SHE decides she is worth. If you ALLOW it, it's YOUR fault, not his.
Assuming does you no good. I am not under 30, not even near that side of 30. FYI I have been in failed relationships myself, stayed when I shouldn't have, married someone I shouldn't have, divorced and am now very happily married. So pardon me if I felt I could contribute.

I never said I assumed the other side was better and maybe people do censor when they post. I also never said we weren't being fair to the guy. We aren't being fair period! Has it ever crossed your mind that they're censoring what they've done as well... trying to show themselves in a better light? CF's thread is a perfect example. Her posts summarized by Freke could be interpreted two ways very easily. The begging, pleading, when are you going to marry me girlfriend who does things she doesn't really want to do, but does anyway and then resents him for it. Or the patiently waiting, loving, giving girlfriend who is being jerked around by empty promises and broken timelines, who always gives up her desires for those of someone else's. Come on already.

Once again it's painfully obvious to me that no matter what I post it's going to be wrong.... nm. I won't bother giving my opinion as it's obviously not pertinent.
I think your opinion is valuable girl, and it does illustrate that we should try not to make assumptions about people based on their avs or their names and their posts, but instead ask. I hope you willl stick around, some of the best posts on PS period are when people agree to disagree, but I think we've all gotten a little tired of people threatening to leave then not leaving. So please either stick around and call us on it if we are unfair (which is what I really do hope you will do) or just take a break and make a decision following that. The drama of all the people on LIW who leave (with much fanfare) and come back, and leave and comeback is what drives a lot of members of this forum to drink. Of course from the sounds of it we're driving you to drink too, so maybe in your case (and of course Gallateia's) it's warranted.
Yeah but her point is...exactly as she said, no matter what she says (or anyone else) it's probably going to be wrong....It seems when poster A calls another poster B on on something they have said (poster B), then poster A gets ganged up on (for calling out poster B) about it often times.
 

NewEnglandLady

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
6,299
Date: 4/2/2009 2:00:19 PM
Author: BizouMom

Date: 4/2/2009 1:47:43 PM
Author:Gypsy

I''m just geniunely baffled. I admittedly have probably advised, IRL, more women (and men) to leave unhealthy relationships than most because I don''t ascribe to the ''wait it out and see'' philosophy. If there is a reason for waiting, great, a geniune reason like... ''I cheated on him, but we are trying to see if we can move past that before we get married.'' Or, '' he treats me like a queen and loves me but he doesn''t have a job and is a dreamer but is making sincere life changes (like going back to school) and I''m waiting to see if he''s willing to stick to it before I get married, get a mortgage, and possibly have kids with the guy.'' But when the writing is on the wall... WHY tell the person to ''wait''?

ETA: (I realize that most did not, once the facts were known, thanks to Freke, continue to give this advice in CF''s post, it''s just a general observation, but a specific one).
I think that, in some cases, it is a reflection of what is going on in their own lives and relationships. Kind of hard to give advice to leave and not look in the mirror. KWIM?
I think this is a very valid point.

I also agree with Deco that those of us who''ve been in the situation probably have less patience for it. I am the first to admit that I stayed in my relationship too long without demanding more--living with him and acting like a wife. I am 150% guilty of having the typical, immature "If I love him and want to be his wife, why would I leave him?" mentality until I grew up and found my temporarily-misplaced self-respect. It''s hard to watch others go through what you KNOW is a painful journey.

I''ve talked with a few PSers IRL particularly about the LIW board and the consensus is that it''s a hard board to read. Not always, of course, there are some wonderful stories and great relationships here. But there are also situations such as CFs where your heart sinks with every post because nothing every changes: there is just a hopeful girl who is constantly disappointed. You want to spare girls like that from the pain, but you know you can''t.
 

girlie-girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
819
Date: 4/2/2009 3:49:59 PM
Author: Gypsy

I think your opinion is valuable girl, and it does illustrate that we should try not to make assumptions about people based on their avs or their names and their posts, but instead ask. I hope you willl stick around, some of the best posts on PS period are when people agree to disagree, but I think we''ve all gotten a little tired of people threatening to leave just because someone disagrees with them or tries to be helpful then not leaving. So please either stick around and call us on it if we are unfair (which is what I really do hope you will do) or just take a quiet break and make a decision following that. The drama of all the people on LIW who leave (with much fanfare) and come back, only to leave and comeback again is what drives a lot of members of this forum to drink. Of course from the sounds of it we''re driving you to drink too, so maybe in your case (and of course Gallateia''s) it might be warranted.
Not threatening to leave, just not wanting to participate and give an opinion as it''s obviously WRONG. Funny thing too , as I didn''t know MY opinion could be wrong.
I did recently take a two month break, only to just come back the end of March...

I''ve been around the forum for nearly a year now, yeah I know my post count doesn''t reflect it and why is that? Because I don''t do the fluffy-feel good, everyone''s already said it 100 times posts. So when I do share how I see things I''m sick of being jumped on. Some of these ladies need to seriously chill as their posts are borderline rude. I don''t know how they got so big in their britches or why they feel they can say how they feel and others are wrong in doing so... but I digress. Thanks for those who have said they value my opinion, I''m glad someone does.

As far as my name goes, girlie-girl is a nickname a good friend of mine gave me because I''m so feminine and girlie, yet I love to rough and tumble with the boys. I guess that comes from growing up having only brothers to pick on me. I didn''t know it would serve as a way to make assumptions about or to be judgemental of me. I thought everyone here would be more mature than that.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Um. Want to draw a diagram for me here Dreamgirl, I'm getting confused with all the A's and B's.
Sometimes if a person gets ganged up on (in fact much of the time) that's a sign that maybe they should look to themselves (not saying that about girlie, just a general point) and see if there is a reason. A lot of the posts about leaving and statements that someone feels underappreciated because other's didn't pat them on the head or that have throw temper tantrums in them are just... really freaking juvenile no matter what the person's actual age is (again, not directed at girlie). I'm not saying that just because the majority says it, it must be true. But a lot of the time, where there is smoke there is fire. So if you get ganged up on... look in the mirror. You might see what others are trying to show you, and find that they really are trying to help (even if their tone is a little exasperated or frustrated as sammyj pointed out).
 

Dreamgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,070
I could actually draw a diagram but don't have time at the moment. lol
And I don't wanna! Partly what you say could be very true. But the other part could be certain people who thrive on getting on someone (anyone's) case and when that said someone fires back......all ---- breaks loose.

By the way, not talking about any specific people. Just in general.
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
19,456
Date: 4/2/2009 4:33:43 PM
Author: girlie-girl
Date: 4/2/2009 3:49:59 PM
Author: Gypsy
I think your opinion is valuable girl, and it does illustrate that we should try not to make assumptions about people based on their avs or their names and their posts, but instead ask. I hope you willl stick around, some of the best posts on PS period are when people agree to disagree, but I think we've all gotten a little tired of people threatening to leave just because someone disagrees with them or tries to be helpful then not leaving. So please either stick around and call us on it if we are unfair (which is what I really do hope you will do) or just take a quiet break and make a decision following that. The drama of all the people on LIW who leave (with much fanfare) and come back, only to leave and comeback again is what drives a lot of members of this forum to drink. Of course from the sounds of it we're driving you to drink too, so maybe in your case (and of course Gallateia's) it might be warranted.
Not threatening to leave, just not wanting to participate and give an opinion as it's obviously WRONG. Funny thing too , as I didn't know MY opinion could be wrong.
I did recently take a two month break, only to just come back the end of March...

I've been around the forum for nearly a year now, yeah I know my post count doesn't reflect it and why is that? Because I don't do the fluffy-feel good, everyone's already said it 100 times posts. So when I do share how I see things I'm sick of being jumped on. Some of these ladies need to seriously chill as their posts are borderline rude. I don't know how they got so big in their britches or why they feel they can say how they feel and others are wrong in doing so... but I digress. Thanks for those who have said they value my opinion, I'm glad someone does.

As far as my name goes, girlie-girl is a nickname a good friend of mine gave me because I'm so feminine and girlie, yet I love to rough and tumble with the boys. I guess that comes from growing up having only brothers to pick on me. I didn't know it would serve as a way to make assumptions about or to be judgemental of me. I thought everyone here would be more mature than that.
I value your opinion as well GG.

I've been around for around a year and a half, and my post count reflects my boredom in class.

Seriously, it is a rare post that I do just say "oh that's great" or, "he'll propose sometime". In fact many of my posts have come from a place where I have seriously considered what the person has to say and thought about my response. I am nothing if not long-winded in many of my posts. And the only time I say "It's wonderful!" are in the Colored Stones forum and SMTR. But thats a whole other thing.

Being that I have been called "mean" by posting a "malicious" post that was certainly not intended as such, I know how you feel about being called out. Luckily, I've become used to it from some members, and I've conversed enough with people on here to know when I have said something stupid, and when what they are saying is really a reflection of them and their issues. (My *history* post in CF's thread had VERY little of my own opinion in it, and that's why I'm "mean". Obviously.
) But I'm certainly not against going against the grain, and saying what other people won't--that is, unless someone beats me to it.

And speaking as someone who has a judgment-inducing screenname...I feel your pain there too. Mine was also a nickname, and people have either though I'm a p*rn star or a troublesome little boy, depending on the situation I was using it...fun times.

And Gyps. It is hard to walk away. And it's hard to hear that you should walk away. Doesn't mean it's not true. I think that people need to be rational and logical and look at what people are saying from THAT perspective (logical and rational), state the facts as they stand, and NOT react emotionally. It's incredibly hard to do, but in the end, it's almost always worth it.
 

Dreamgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
5,070
Date: 4/2/2009 4:33:43 PM
Author: girlie-girl
So when I do share how I see things I''m sick of being jumped on. Some of these ladies need to seriously chill as their posts are borderline rude. I don''t know how they got so big in their britches or why they feel they can say how they feel and others are wrong in doing so... but I digress. Thanks for those who have said they value my opinion, I''m glad someone does.
I completely agree.
 

lucyandroger

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
1,557
Date: 4/2/2009 3:37:13 PM
Author: sammyj

girlie-girl, I like reading your posts and I find your opinions to be thoughtful, objective and considerate of the OP. I hope you continue to share your opinion.
Ditto. I enjoy your posts girlie-girl!
 

LtlFirecracker

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
4,837
Gypsy,

I kind of hit on this in CFs thread, but I think a lot of us give advice based on our own experiences, I myself am no exception. I don''t tell a girl to leave her BF because I was in a bad relationship for 3 years and many people told me to leave. I talked about this before, but it was the person who didn''t tell me to leave who got through to me. She never told me to "hang in there" either, she was there when I needed her, made me hang out with her BF and friends to show me what a healthy relationship was, and supported me when I came to the decision to break up. But it was mine to make.

I never tell anyone to end a relationship, even in domestic violence cases, we are not taught to tell the women to leave. Because it is about empowering her to make that decision, and not making the decision for her. You tell her what is being done is not her fault, ask about here feelings on the relationship and where she is. You also give you phone numbers for resources so that she knows she is not alone and has help. You bring up every time you see her, and let her know you are concerned, and help her work through her thoughts. When she reaches the point she wants to leave, you help make a plan (as it is the most dangerous part of the relationship). And than, you need to be there when she will go back, because most of them leave several times before they leave for good.

I used to tell people what they "need" to do all the time. I have lost many friends that way, going through it myself, I now realize why I lost those friends.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Put your big girl panties on. Period.
 
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