vs2...always eye clean?

[moremoremore]

Queary: Excluding emerald and aschers, is a Vs2 always TRULY eye clean? ... as in, even if you put your eyeball to the stone knowing where the inclusion is...(over two carats...not smaller if that matters)

 

[Magnum]

No, it's definitely not, especially as you start talking about larger stones. As was discussed in a previous thread by Rich Sherwood, a VS2 size inclusion is not the always the same physical size (say 0.05 mm for arguments sake). It's proportional to the size of the stone. So, a VS2 inclusion in a 0.5 carat stone will be physically a lot smaller than a VS2 size inclusion in a 2.0 carat stone. So it's possible that the VS2 inclusion in the 0.5 carat stone will not be visible to the eye, but that same type VS2 inclusion in a 2.0 carat stone might be visible to the eye. I'm not sure the exact size of the stone where VS2 inclusions become more apparent to the naked eye, but there is a point where stones get large enough that VS2 is not necessarily a sure thing "eye-clean." There are some rare cases even in smaller stones where VS2 may not be eye-clean, depending on the type of inclusion, but I think these are few and far between.

 

[researcher]

That's interesting. My understanding was that you couldn't see the inclusions in a VS2 stone--no matter the size. I understand that what's considered a VS inclusion changes depending on the size of the stone, but I can't see there being a big inclusion in a VS2 stone that you can pick out without magnification.

 

[noobie]

I asked Martin Fuller that question and he said a VS2 grade is determined by the size, number, type, color and location of inclusions. It is not a gaurantee of eye clean. He said he has even seen inclusions with the eye in VS1 stones.




So I take it be that while most VS2 are safe you always need to see it for yourself. Fortunately I don't have your eagle eyes, or else buying diamonds would cost a lot more.

 

[moremoremore]

That's what I thought...at first, I assumed it would be eye clean...but then it hit me that the grading has nothing to do with eye clean...but the nature/quantity of inclusions...ten bucks this one is not eye clean...and that's why it's so "cheap".... (relative to others of the carat and clarity and color)....Jonathan will tell me for sure when he checks it out more carefully...so I'll know for sure then and when I see it...was just curious now....TEN BUCKS bets I have a eye visible vs2 inclusions. That IS my life!!!!!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_2_20ct_f_vs2.htm

 

[moremoremore]

and I want to add that this is a stone GOG just got for me today off the internet at my request...not a stone he had in stock...he could not have possibly known if this was eye clean until seeing it!

 

[Magnum]

Let's look at it this way. Let's take a 1 carat stone and a 4 carat stone just for comparison's sake. What's the difference between a vs2 inclusion and an SI1 inclusion of the same shape in a 1 carat stone. Probably just the size of the inclusion. Would it be safe to say that a SI1 inclusion might be say 2.5 times bigger than a VS2 inclusion, and that the SI1 inclusion might be eye visible, where the VS2 one might not be. Taking that into consideration, a 4 carat stone is about 2.5 times bigger (surface area of the top of the stone) than a 1 carat stone, so it's reasonable to say that a VS2 inclusion in a 4 carat stone will be 2.5 times bigger than one in a 1 carat stone, which just happened to be the size of that SI1 inclusion in the 1 carat stone. Well, if you could see the inclusion in a 1 carat stone, it's safe to assume the you could see the same exact sized inclusion in a 4 carat stone. You could probably see it even easier because there's probably a little less contrast in a larger stones with larger facets, but that's a little off topic. Anyway, there comes a point when VS2 inclusions become large enough to see with the naked eye.

 

[noobie]

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On 7/9/2004 9:59:32 PM moremoremore wrote:





....TEN BUCKS bets I have a eye visible vs2 inclusions. That IS my life!!!!!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_2_20ct_f_vs2.htm
----------------

Ten bucks whether you can see it or I can see it. If it's ten bucks whether I can see it, then you're on!

 

[moremoremore]

LOL....I'll just cry if I went from an Si1 with a visible inclusion smack in the middle to a 3500 more stone with a visible vs2 inclusion smack in the middle!!! Prices keep going up too!!! ARGH!!!!

 

[moremoremore]

I feel a little less worried...I read up on GOG and this one is eye clean..so maybe there is chance...I can't wait to find out! Keep your fingers crossed!!!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_18ct_e_vs2_h&a.htm

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 7/9/2004 9:05:37 PM moremoremore wrote:

Queary: Excluding emerald and aschers, is a Vs2 always TRULY eye clean? ... as in, even if you put your eyeball to the stone knowing where the inclusion is...(over two carats...not smaller if that matters)----------------

mmm,
so you're still looking for that princess, huh? i bought a si1 3.34 rb from jonathan. he said it was eye clean. so did chris from dave atlas, and he said it was eye clean. and i can't see anything from the top. but i know that there is an inclusion in the center of the table. sometime, maybe your mind is playing tricks on you, knowing where the inclusion is. even though your eyes can't see it, your mind might be picking it up. but in your case, a princess cut may be a different story,but i'am sure jon will give you his honest opinion.

p.s. maybe by the time you are done you end buying a IF stone. LOL!! its only $$$

 

[moremoremore]

I haven't seen it yet and Jonathan will probably take look tomorrow...so I'll know then for sure...I am hopeful!

 

[oldminer]

Describing a diamond as "eye-clean" does not mean that no one can possibly see a mark in the stone. It really means that in normal use, you or no one looking at it on yourhand will ever spot the inclusion. The term is very broad and it absolutely does not mean that an eagle eyed observer, looking very closely, could never spot some tiny mark. That would not be a practical use of this "sales term". It is not a technical gemological term, but one used to convince buyers that the inclusions are impossible or impractical to spot without magnification.

I am sure I have seen VS1 diamonds, in larger sizes, with eye visible inclusions. No doubt some of these were sold along the way to retail as eye-clean because the seller knew someone with eagle eyes "might" spot the tiny mark. Using that term sometimes puts a lazy buyer into a trance and they forget to look long enough to deiscover the stone is not quite as eye-clean as they were told. Diamond selling at every level has a bit of magic to it. We can't eliminate all of this, but we can be more aware so that we can share the enjoyment of the game. You wouldn't want to destroy the individuality of the pursuit by making it so cut and dried that you place your order for a stone, never needing look at it, and just present it wrapped in a fancy diamond document.

Just hearing a diamond described as "eye-clean" makes me want to examine it all the more closely for the eye visibility level of the inclusion the seller is apparently already aware of. That's the game and each of us wants to be a winner...

 

[Lynn B]

VERY interesting thread... and a perfect example of how experts and non-experts both come here together to share valuable information.

I love this place!

Lynn

 

[MelanieC]

Great thread,
Because I thought all VS2's would 100% be eye clean. It's good to know in certain circumstances that they might not be.

Actually I know someone who has what she says is a VVS something and it's only a .50 ct diamond. She showed me a pinpoint that is visible when viewing from the side of the diamond. My VS2 on the other hand has nothing (at least yet) that I have been able to see with my eye. I have tried in every lighting situation that I have found have seen nothing. I know there are two small clouds under the table.

 

[moremoremore]

I'm glad your stone is clean!!!! As for your friends stone...I still think that's odd that a vvs has an inclusion even visible through the pavillion....you sure it's not dirt? And remember...eye clean and clarity is graded face up only! Tilting it is cheating!

Anyhoo- GOG still hasn't gotten back to me about the eye clean nature of the stone...bummer...so I'll post it when I find out, maybe on tuesday...!!!

 

[diamonddoll]

My understanding of eye clean is the stine is viewd from the top by about 12" away. Even if you can see some inclusions when you really try to, as long as the diamond sparkles a lot and looks pretty to you I think that's what counts. I have lots of I1 and I2 stones (I received them before I knew about PS and all the technical stuff on this forum about choosing diamonds) and I still love these rings even though they are flawed.

 

[moremoremore]

but I want a bionic eye clean vs2 diamonddoll...as in you can't see anything eye ball to stone!

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 7/11/2004 2:03:07 PM moremoremore wrote:





but I want a bionic eye clean vs2 diamonddoll...as in you can't see anything eye ball to stone!

----------------

more, I can't remember what magnifiaction Steve Austin's eye was, but if it was more than 10 then you'll need to buy an IF stone (love to see the price on a 2+ carat IF stone!)

I'm sure you looked at this one, but what are the main differences?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_2_24ct_g_vs2.htm

 

[moremoremore]

LOL....He didn't have a "bionic" eye...but a loupe eye...

Yeah, that's another we got in...but it has an X thin girlde with feathers on it...so that's an automatic no go for me...and I really want an F!!!

 

[Lynn B]

----------------
...I still love these rings even though they are flawed.----------------

Don't think of them as "flaws"... think of them as BIRTHMARKS!

Lynn