Vitamin Experts / Dr's Out There? Advice Needed!

[missy]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am wondering about something. Missy, you believe in taking certain things at certain times because of interactions (which is causing you some stress, no doubt!). But, all these things we're taking occur naturally in food. And food came with no guidelines on when/how to eat. For thousands of years we've just eaten whatever food(s) we wanted whenever we wanted and it seems to have worked. So I'm just wondering if someone isn't making this a bit (or a lot) more complicated than it needs to be. I say "someone" because I don't know where you got all this info, but in all my reading I have not come across a copious amount of directions on when to take stuff, other than a suggestion to take D with fat, and that magnesium might be better at night. But even that isn't a must.

Thoughts?

Hi Ellen, just a quick answer as we’re cycling (haha big surprise ) but what occurs in food is generally much smaller in quantity than when we dose with vitamins. And only in larger amounts generally are interactions a bigger concern. Hope that makes sense.

Look how cool this is. Just took this photo right now. A new (to us) motorized parasailing. Love how freeing this looks. Flying. Like cycling. Great way to destress and enjoy.

 

[Ellen]

I realize it's more than in food maybe, but I've still never heard to juggle supplements. But, whatever works.

Parasailing IS like flying! But being afraid of heights, you'll never catch me doing it.

 

[Ally T]

My husband & 2 daughters (aged 7 & 9) went parasailing a couple of weeks ago when we were away on holiday. They were attached to a speed boat, but, er, no thanks! They absolutely loved it though! Meanwhile, I sat in a bar on the waterfront, took many photos & drank 2 cocktails. Who was the winner?!

 

[missy]

My husband & 2 daughters (aged 7 & 9) went parasailing a couple of weeks ago when we were away on holiday. They were attached to a speed boat, but, er, no thanks! They absolutely loved it though! Meanwhile, I sat in a bar on the waterfront, took many photos & drank 2 cocktails. Who was the winner?!

Haha as I see it you were all winners @Alex T
I went parasailing when I was younger. The conventional way...attachd to a speed boat as your DDs and DH were when they parasailed. It was a BLAST. I would do it again in a heartbeat. But I dont think I would do the motorized version with no boat. Not until I research it further and see just how safe it is. Anyway for some reason being over water when parasailing makes me feel safer than doing it over land. Even if that is only an illusion.

Parasailing IS like flying! But being afraid of heights, you'll never catch me doing it.

Aww c'mon Ellen, let's go together... We can do it!

 

[missy]

Thanks so much,@missy! All this info is so important as to when the supplements are taken and what needs to be taken separately! I will definitely contact you when I have more questions!

I am going to an essential oils class this morning. The more natural prevention and remedies I can learn about, the better!

Hope the class went well. So interesting and I am definitely curious to hear more about the essential oils and their healing properties. Yes please do not hesitate to contact me. It is confusing but Consumer Lab is very thorough and does all the scientific research to back up all their facts. Not everything is black and white however as much of science is a gray area so that just makes it all the more interesting.Though at this juncture I can do with less interesting and more boring if you kwim.

 

[Ally T]

@Ellen Dr. Zaidi's book arrived this morning, and having a lazy, rainy Bank Holiday type of day lying on the sofa, I have read it completely. Thanks so much for putting me onto it - very insightful reading & I shall be passing it to my sisters.

I also stumbled across www.vitamindcouncil.org & have been able to get some information & advice from their Practicioner, so I feel very well advised. I am now going to take 8000iu daily for 8 weeks, reassess & check for improvement, and if nothing is different I shall go back to my Dr & demand she tests again. Thanks for your help!

 

[Ellen]

@Ellen Dr. Zaidi's book arrived this morning, and having a lazy, rainy Bank Holiday type of day lying on the sofa, I have read it completely. Thanks so much for putting me onto it - very insightful reading & I shall be passing it to my sisters.

I also stumbled across www.vitamindcouncil.org & have been able to get some information & advice from their Practicioner, so I feel very well advised. I am now going to take 8000iu daily for 8 weeks, reassess & check for improvement, and if nothing is different I shall go back to my Dr & demand she tests again. Thanks for your help!

SO glad to hear all this Alex! I hope things start turning around for you shortly. And I'm glad I could be of help.

 

[Ally T]

@House Cat Did you get advice about your supplementation after your low results? I hope you have & that you're feeling a bit brighter for it?

 

[House Cat]

@House Cat Did you get advice about your supplementation after your low results? I hope you have & that you're feeling a bit brighter for it?

It was my psychiatrist that found these latest low results. She told me to talk to my primary care physician...who has no openings for two months. I have a call in. I am waiting to hear what to do. I have been taking 3,000 mg D3 per day with K2 but I know that isn’t enough.

What I really want to know is why my vitamin levels keep falling. Even after I get them up, they will slide back down.

 

[Ally T]

It was my psychiatrist that found these latest low results. She told me to talk to my primary care physician...who has no openings for two months. I have a call in. I am waiting to hear what to do. I have been taking 3,000 mg D3 per day with K2 but I know that isn’t enough.

What I really want to know is why my vitamin levels keep falling. Even after I get them up, they will slide back down.

I wonder if you have an absorption issue in the gut? I have heard of this type of thing before & I don't think it was anything particularly scary, in that your gut processes food too quickly to fully absorb the nutrients properly? A two month wait is crap. Hope you can get to speak to someone on the phone soon. Big hugs to you

 

[Ally T]

UPDATE:

So I ended up having bloods done on Monday as I had noticed last week some changes to my finger & toe nails. They have developed a few ridges that run across rather than down, plus some small areas of pitting. I had a full blood count done, plus Vit D, B12, Iron & Folate.

Everything has come back within normal parameters, including Vit D, which was at 99! Her words were "You've obviously had a good summer!" The only snag was that they ran out of blood sample to do the B12 & Folate, so I am back next Tuesday morning for those. Obviously if it is anything related to these then it's an easy fix with supplementation, if not, then the hair shed & ridged nails could be just a blip. Either way, I have lost a bit of sleep over the results, so this morning I am relived. I have stopped the D supplementation for now & will start again in Oct when we head into the darker months here. I will continue with a good all round multi vitamin once I have had the B12 & Folate results.

 

[Ellen]

Alex. clearly you are absorbing well! Good news. Stopping the D and starting back up later sounds good. Let us know how your other test results go.

House Cat, are you taking D2 or D3?

 

[House Cat]

Alex. clearly you are absorbing well! Good news. Stopping the D and starting back up later sounds good. Let us know how your other test results go.

House Cat, are you taking D2 or D3?

I’m taking D3

 

[Ally T]

UPDATE NUMBER 2!

So my B12 & folate came back right smack bang in the centre of normal parameters. EVERYTHING is normal, and not low end of normal, but central to top end.

So the general hair thinning & ridged nails don't seem to have a cause?? My Dr has said whatever has caused them is obviously no longer & has rectified itself. Obviously with nail ridges, it takes many months for them to grow off & what interrupted their growth at cuticle level has passed & gone usually by the time the ridge or pit becomes noticeable. As for the hair, she has told me to not worry about it & continue to be my usual healthy self, with my good diet & running. It is still bothering me, but at least I know my body is functioning well & is in tip top shape. Of course, they could be linked to illness from a few months back, as in April I had a nasty flu, conjunctivitis AND laryngitis over a two week period. Usually I can carry on with life, but that one stopped me completely for a good 7 days.

But urgh! My logical brain doesn't like mysteries!!

 

[Ellen]

So, do your nails look like the ridges have stopped and are just growing out now? And has your hair stopped thinning and is steady at wherever it is, or is it still shedding unnaturally/thinning?

 

[Ally T]

@Ellen I can't see any ridges at the cuticle area, no. Just the ones a couple of mm on from there & beyond to my fingertips. And it's EVER so subtle - you wouldn't notice if I didn't point them out & thrust my nail profile side 6 inches from your nose! My Dr really needed her illuminated magnifier to see them on all but 2 of my fingers.

As for my hair, it's still shedding but I *think* it's slowed to normal rate of shedding. It's still coming out when I wash it, but only the longer hairs really. I'm hardly noticing the teeny new growth hairs swirling down the plug hole really...

 

[House Cat]

https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Vitamin-Capsule-Blister/dp/B008KZD6EO

I started taking this once per week.

I spoke to the pharmacist and apparently, the prescription form of vitamin D I was taking was D2. This is probably why my levels didn’t raise all that much.

 

[Ellen]

https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Vitamin-Capsule-Blister/dp/B008KZD6EO

I started taking this once per week.

I spoke to the pharmacist and apparently, the prescription form of vitamin D I was taking was D2. This is probably why my levels didn’t raise all that much.

Definitely. The D2 works no where near as well as D3.

 

[anne_h]

I don't have anything useful to contribute, other than I've been dealing with ongoing hair loss for 4 years. It started shortly after a head injury and was diagnosed as telogen effluvium. Which normally self-resolves in 6-12 months. In my case it's been continuous for 4 years now, so I believe it is chronic telogen effluvium. I had blood work done right when it started and had low iron and vitamin D at that time. I did experiment with supplementation but noticed no impacts.

Since then I've just been living with it. I'm down to ~50% of original hair volume. But I've been reticent to start the medical merry go round of trying to figure out if it can be helped. I saw a few doctors initially and they were rather dismissive about it. The usual.

I lose a combination of mature hairs, and also the finer newer ones. I bought a small vacuum specifically for the bathroom to keep up with the loss. lol

Anne

 

[Ally T]

@anne_h I have read about your hair loss in the past & I am so sorry you are still dealing with this with no improvement. It's very distressing. For me, it is relatively easy to disguise because I have very naturally curly hair. My hairdresser is amazing at putting the part far over to one side & keeping my layers short, which gives it body & lots of fullness. When I wash it & it pulls wet, heavy & straight, yeah.... it's upsetting.

What products do you use? I have used the Nioxin system on & off for many years now, when I have suffered mysterious episodes of hair loss & decided in November last year to stick with it permanently. What I particularly like is the leave in scalp treatment. I use System 4 & this treatment is a mouse that you rub into the roots only. When dried by the morning (I have always air dried overnight as it makes my curls more defined & less frizzy) I get my fingers into the roots & give it a good fluff up. I then gently dab a dark brown hair concealer powder either side of my part line, which helps not only with the greys, but also to disguise the light scalp that shows more along there. This makes such a HUGE difference to the volume at root level. Of course, you may have tried this product already with no success, but I wanted to share. Big hugs, lovely.

 

[MamaBee]

I was found to be deficient in Vitamin D around ten years ago. I can’t remember exactly but I think it was around 20. I was told to just take 1,000.. I decided to take 2,000 after my blood work came back after year higher but still low. I moved so got a new doctor who told me not to go above 2,000. I don’t listen because I’ve been taking 3,000 every day and my last blood work said it was 42. It takes me that much to get to 42. I can’t go out in the sun too much without protection to get it naturally because I had melanoma..all cured..but don’t want a new one! I’m PALE! I think you can safely go up than what you are taking now. I didnt listen to my doctor about sticking to 2,000 but I do tell her I’m doing it. She gave up on me..

 

[Demon]

Anne, this is going to be long, and way more than I usually like to share, but.....I do think you need to see a doctor. Several years ago, which is normally very dry - the first thing I'd do after a shower is lotion on my hands then my face because I couldn't stand how dry it was. Well, slowly I noticed that I no longer needed to use lotion on my face. Then it got to where my face was feeling oily (I will get to the hair, really). Then it started getting to the point that my face was full on oily. I started using oxy pads and oil absorbing face wipes. It got to the point where I was using the oxy pads every couple of hours and it wasn't helping. At that time, I had an appt with my gyno, and he asked if there had been any changes over the last year. I mentioned my face and he recommended a visit to the dermatologist. I went, they questioned me, looked my face over, and one asked if I had been losing any hair. I had been noticing more shedding than usual, but had been so focused on my face that I hadn't really paid much attention to my hair.

They sent me for a blood test for 3 specific things - thyroid, DHEA, and testosterone. Thyroid came back normal, DHEA low and testosterone high. The dermatologists and my gyno were talking back and forth and in the meantime I searched online for low dhea, high testosterone post menopausal. (I had it diagnosed from info at the national institutes of health before I heard back from my doctors.) I was then sent for a CT scan.

It turns out I had a rare testosterone producing benign ovarian tumor. My gyno still wouldn't admit it was what I had until blood tests 2 weeks after the tumor removal showed my hormone levels back to normal. The dermatologists wanted my gyno to write it up in a medical journal, but I don't think he got around to it before he retired. During those 2 weeks, my face was much better and I noticed how much hair I was losing at that time. Tons. Back to normal now.

Anyway, that's all to say you really need to get checked out. Who would have thought an oily face was due to an ovarian tumor.

Have you seen a dermatologist? I was astounded that they were the ones that really figured out what to test me for. I hope you find a solution.

 

[anne_h]

Thanks Alex & Demon!

Alex - I have fine, straight hair. I don't use any styling products. I use dry shampoo (Batiste original) on the days I don't wash my hair. I wash around every 2nd day. That routine is just for my own lifestyle convenience.

I have been using Rogaine almost since the loss started after the head injury (on the advice of a dermatologist). It's not indicated for effluviums, but he thought it couldn't hurt. I don't think it's really helping with regrowth... but I did go off it for a few months and saw even more shedding (which I believe is normal when anyone goes off it). But it scared me so I started using it again, lol. I apply it every alternate evening.

Demon - I have seen 1 GP and 2 Dermatologists for the hair loss... everyone thought it was triggered by the head injury and all three thought it would self-resolve. Well 4 years later it's still ongoing...

As long as I keep my hair fairly short (chin length) it looks mostly okay. I can live with it like this, although with the continuing net loss, I'm a bit nervous about the future!! My ponytail gets narrower over time, so I know whatever regrowth I have is not happening fast enough to replace all the loss.

BTW, my loss is an even, diffuse loss. I don't have bare patches or even a widening part. Just overall thinning.

Anne

 

[MamaBee]

Thanks Alex & Demon!

Alex - I have fine, straight hair. I don't use any styling products. I use dry shampoo (Batiste original) on the days I don't wash my hair. I wash around every 2nd day. That routine is just for my own lifestyle convenience.

I have been using Rogaine almost since the loss started after the head injury (on the advice of a dermatologist). It's not indicated for effluviums, but he thought it couldn't hurt. I don't think it's really helping with regrowth... but I did go off it for a few months and saw even more shedding (which I believe is normal when anyone goes off it). But it scared me so I started using it again, lol. I apply it every alternate evening.

Demon - I have seen 1 GP and 2 Dermatologists for the hair loss... everyone thought it was triggered by the head injury and all three thought it would self-resolve. Well 4 years later it's still ongoing...

As long as I keep my hair fairly short (chin length) it looks mostly okay. I can live with it like this, although with the continuing net loss, I'm a bit nervous about the future!! My ponytail gets narrower over time, so I know whatever regrowth I have is not happening fast enough to replace all the loss.

BTW, my loss is an even, diffuse loss. I don't have bare patches or even a widening part. Just overall thinning.

Anne

I think the ponytail isn’t a good idea. It puts strain at the roots from what my dermatologist told me. If I do one I don’t pull my hair tight..just gathered..

 

[Ally T]

@anne_h I'm glad you are able to manage this through your hairstyle. I am the same & if I ever, which is almost never, mention to people that I am losing my hair, they are like "What? Where??' I was actually at a party 2 weeks ago & saw a friend of my elder sister whom I haven't seen since a party in March, who is a fellow natural curly top. She said "ooh, I absolutely LOVE your hair! It looks great in this shorter style!" Then started to touch it. I didn't tell her I was still losing it. She was at a party last November (my family members throw a lot of big parties!) where I was losing & had just been diagnosed with the very low Vitamin D, and she was sympathetic & gave me hugs. So to her, two weeks ago, my hair looked full & amazing. To me, two weeks ago, I had strategically clipped my hair back on the swooping fringe side, to hold everything together on the top of my scalp.

Like you, mine is diffuse & all over. Just general thinning, which seems on & off over the years. I am really hoping you will bite the bullet & go for follow up tests. You *may* be able to get to the bottom of this with some nasty broggling & poking around. But like you, I fear for the future. I know it's only hair, but I find myself watching YouTube videos about hair toppers more than I'm comfy with!!

 

[Demon]

I would really look for someone willing to do more blood work. I never would have connected my oily face (and also evenly distributed hair loss) to a tumor.

Thanks Alex & Demon!

Alex - I have fine, straight hair. I don't use any styling products. I use dry shampoo (Batiste original) on the days I don't wash my hair. I wash around every 2nd day. That routine is just for my own lifestyle convenience.

I have been using Rogaine almost since the loss started after the head injury (on the advice of a dermatologist). It's not indicated for effluviums, but he thought it couldn't hurt. I don't think it's really helping with regrowth... but I did go off it for a few months and saw even more shedding (which I believe is normal when anyone goes off it). But it scared me so I started using it again, lol. I apply it every alternate evening.

Demon - I have seen 1 GP and 2 Dermatologists for the hair loss... everyone thought it was triggered by the head injury and all three thought it would self-resolve. Well 4 years later it's still ongoing...

As long as I keep my hair fairly short (chin length) it looks mostly okay. I can live with it like this, although with the continuing net loss, I'm a bit nervous about the future!! My ponytail gets narrower over time, so I know whatever regrowth I have is not happening fast enough to replace all the loss.

BTW, my loss is an even, diffuse loss. I don't have bare patches or even a widening part. Just overall thinning.

Anne

 

[MamaBee]

I take 3000 iu a day around the calendar as well as actively seek sunshine as often as possible. I live in the South US, middle Georgia specifically and have a pool. The fear of ODing on vitamin D is pretty over blown. I work in Endocrinology and most of our patients are D deficient. That's in an area where everyone tans from about March to Oct.

If you are taking D3 also be mindful to take K2 or eat LOTS of dark leafy greens to prevent calcium deposits in the arterial walls. If you are getting D from the sun, this isn't a problem. Take 100mg of K2 per every 1000 iu of D3.

I never knew this..Thank you!

 

[MamaBee]

I thought the ceiling was 4,000 IU of D3 to be considered safe. I had mentioned to my doctor that I wanted to get mine to 50 and she said not to do it. Im 42 now but am getting a blood test soon. I’ll ask to have that included too to see where I am.

 

[Ally T]

@Mamabean Please come back & update us with your test results. I think this thread has been quite educational to a lot of people, myself included!

 

[MamaBee]

I thought the ceiling was 4,000 IU of D3 to be considered safe. I had mentioned to my doctor that I wanted to get mine to 50 and she said not to do it. Im 42 now but am getting a blood test soon. I’ll ask to have that included too to see where I am.

Just to be clear my Vitamin d level is 42 and not my age!