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Virtue Signaling

RunningwithScissors

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
1,029
I also think it is okay to say "I did X, it was darn hard, and I'm proud of it!"

Let's cheer on people who worked their butts off to graduate from school, or people who worked to lower their cholesterol level, or pinched pennies to pay down their debt, or had the courage to walk away from a loved one who was not good for them, etc. Maybe those aren't our own specific goals, but being human means we all can relate to wanting something that takes time, work, heartache and creativity to achieve. I think its good to celebrate each other's victories in life and I don't want anyone to be afraid to say "I did X and I'm proud of myself for doing it!"
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
21,106
@RunningwithScissors Thank you for voicing your thoughts so eloquently :))

For those of you that don’t know what “virtue signaling” is, this reply is a perfect example. M is signaling that she is more virtuous than K because she would have made sure the 3 big religions would be represented in the 9/11 thread.

Virtue signaling (noun)
the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue

If I were to raise your ‘virtue signal’ with my own, I would say, “but M, what about the 4th, 5th, and 6th religions of the world?! Don’t they matter?!”

Also, weren’t politics banned on PS? But it’s okay to talk about groups that give money to political parties if “we” deem them virtuous?!
Your example is flawed because it ascribes motivations that time and experience has irrefutably proven inapplicable.

Both Karl and Matata are more than capable of thinking for themselves and disregarding popular trends, both have long records of speaking their (own) minds, and neither is here to win a “cool contest”. The result is that both are beloved and respected members of this community.
 
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hmr_mama

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 15, 2009
Messages
480
@RunningwithScissors Thank you for voicing your thoughts so eloquently :))


Your example is flawed because it ascribes motivations that time and experience has irrefutably proven inapplicable.

Both Karl and Matata are more than capable of thinking for themselves and disregarding popular trends, both have long records of speaking their (own) minds, and neither is here to win a “cool contest”. The result is that both are beloved and respected members of this community.
Not really understanding what you’re getting at. Should I not have used their own words to point to an example of virtue signaling? Am I here to win a “cool contest”? I just don’t get it. None of us know the motivation of each person on PS. Am I not allowed to post because of my lack of history or because I’m not “beloved”? Yikes.

Words matter. I wouldn’t describe the words M had for K as “loving” or “respectful”. If we have to know the motivations of their words based on time and experience, is the participation on the forum then limited to those with the time and experience needed to deduce the motivations of each member?

A7890942-B39B-43FA-9EBA-89A5E9F7A7CC.jpeg
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
21,106
Not really understanding what you’re getting at. Should I not have used their own words to point to an example of virtue signaling? Am I here to win a “cool contest”? I just don’t get it. None of us know the motivation of each person on PS. Am I not allowed to post because of my lack of history or because I’m not “beloved”? Yikes.

Words matter. I wouldn’t describe the words M had for K as “loving” or “respectful”. If we have to know the motivations of their words based on time and experience, is the participation on the forum then limited to those with the time and experience needed to deduce the motivations of each member?

A7890942-B39B-43FA-9EBA-89A5E9F7A7CC.jpeg
Nope. Lots of sentiment in this response that I neither said nor intended to imply.

I was simply stating that Matata wouldn’t ever be “virtue signalling” by any definition posited in this thread.

That’s because every definition we’ve encountered thus far involves some degree of currying favour with the popular kids by saying the #RightThings, whether or not you mean them, which means “virtue signallers” want to be part of the popular kids’ crowd, and I have known both Matata and Karl for a long time and neither has ever given a flying fig for what the popular kids do or think or say.

Using her words as an example of “virtue signalling” is flawed because it ascribes motivations that are inapplicable.
 
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missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,485
An interesting op ed piece my DH shared with me.



‘It Ain’t Braggin’ if You Can Back It Up’
The line between pride and hubris can be awfully thin. But humility never hurts.



By
Andy Kessler
Sept. 27, 2020 4:21 pm ET


"Hubris is deeply embedded in our culture, especially in social media, which 12-time Daytime Emmy Award-attending actress Moira Rose has called an “amusement park for clinical narcissists” and a “cauldron of self-absorption.” We’re inundated with mean bosses: Gordon “Yes, Chef” Ramsey made a TV career out of it. Even lovable talk-show host Ellen DeGeneres—who actually uses “Be Kind” as a marketing brand—is accused of running a toxic work environment.
Big egos are contagious, especially in sports. Barry Bonds, the home-run-record-holding San Francisco Giant, once told sportscaster Chris Myers, “You pay money to go to baseball games. Well, your ticket doesn’t say autographs. Your ticket doesn’t say that we’re role models. Your ticket just says pay to see the show.” Teammate Jeff Kent, who considered himself closest with Mr. Bonds, has said Barry had a “cocky, arrogant attitude.” Mr. Bonds thought a lot of himself, declaring, “I’m not afraid to be lonely at the top.” All this even though he was getting more than a little help from “the cream” and “the clear”—anabolic steroids.
Was that pride? Ego? Hubris? All of the above.
You know the type. At cocktail parties, they talk your ear off about themselves and if you try to interject with something about yourself—“Just got back from Brazil . . .”—they immediately personalize it and tell you about meeting soccer star Neymar’s agent’s sister at a golf outing where they birdied the 14th hole. The only question they ask is, more or less, “Enough about what I think about me, what do you think about me?” This is when I excuse myself and head to the bar.



The world is overfilled with bloviating, egotistical, one-track, braggadocious, arrogant, chest-pumping, self-important, pretentious know-it-alls. Politicians count these traits as features, not bugs. Wall Street is a hotbed of hubris, à la Tom Wolfe’s “Masters of the Universe”: investment bankers, traders (though a lot fewer of them these days) and, when their returns are good, many venture capitalists, private-equity folks and hedge-funders. All invincible, until they aren’t. Ray Dalio’s Bridgewater Associates, which managed $148 billion in assets, saw its flagship fund lose 18.6% through August this year. Now that’s humbling.
But what if you really are the greatest? Cardinals pitching great “Dizzy” Dean once predicted that he and his brother, Paul (nicknamed “Daffy”), would win 45 games and then famously said, “It ain’t braggin’ if you can back it up.” Fair enough—and to his credit, he only said it once. I don’t want to hear the amazing exploits of the hubris-happy again and again and again. Check your insecurity. By the way, Daffy won 19 games, Dizzy 30.
I prefer “modest until provoked.” I once had dinner with Roger Craig of the San Francisco 49ers: four Pro Bowls, three Super Bowl rings. He couldn’t have been nicer and told stories about training camp and Joe Montana throwing his bicycle up a tree. It wasn’t until I brought it up that Mr. Craig talked about his year with over 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 receiving—and why he’s shamefully still not in the Hall of Fame. He was refreshingly ego- and hubris-free. Almost self-effacing—modest for someone so accomplished.
Back in 2007 Jim Harbaugh had just been hired to coach Stanford football. Our local school district invited him to join a “Monday Night Football” fundraiser with area dads. Being new, he agreed. Then two days prior, Stanford, a 41-point underdog against the University of Southern California, miraculously won 24-23, in what people around here still call the “greatest upset ever.” Mr. Harbaugh was all over ESPN that Monday. And yet he didn’t cancel the fundraiser.
I knew he had played for Michigan and was drafted by the Chicago Bears, but did a little homework and noted that he played briefly with the Indianapolis Colts. That night, I got up the nerve to go talk to Mr. Harbaugh. I noted that he was the last quarterback for the Colts before Peyton Manning. He looked at me funny and then said loud enough for the entire room to hear, “Oh no, you don’t understand: Those people in Indianapolis owe me. I was so bad my final year there, we only won three games and the Colts got the No. 1 draft pick and Manning—because of me!”

Who does that? Is that modesty, reserve, humbleness? All I know is that a little less hubris and a little more humility go a long way.
"
 

hmr_mama

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
480
Nope. Lots of sentiment in this response that I neither said nor intended to imply.

I was simply stating that Matata wouldn’t ever be “virtue signalling” by any definition posited in this thread.

That’s because every definition we’ve encountered thus far involves some degree of currying favour with the popular kids by saying the #RightThings, whether or not you mean them, which means “virtue signallers” want to be part of the popular kids’ crowd, and I have known both Matata and Karl for a long time and neither has ever given a flying fig for what the popular kids do or think or say.
It was never my intention to imply anything in your response. Those really were questions.

I don’t think that’s the definition of virtue signaling. It has nothing to do with saying the things you think people want to hear. It’s a conspicuous moral beaconing. Sometimes the people doing the virtue signaling are in the minority, sometimes the majority. They’re not doing it to gain favor. They’re doing it because they’re prigs. Anytime we assume our way is best and we shout it to the masses (via social media, at a dinner party, or on an Internet forum), we’re virtue signaling. We do this in a variety of ways. One example is to point out others’ deficiencies in morality. Other times it’s believing (and saying so) that anyone that doesn’t think like you is unintelligent, a troll, racist, a bigot, etc. It’s narcissistic. It’s running rampant lately and it’s the exact opposite of loving and respectful.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,106
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree re. What role motivation should or shouldn’t play when judging the moral high ground.

it’s believing (and saying so) that anyone that doesn’t think like you is unintelligent, a troll, racist, a bigot, etc. It’s narcissistic. It’s running rampant lately
This - I wholeheartedly agree with.

I recently here on PS had the distinct pleasure (it was immensely pleasing) of using someone’s argument exactly as she had stated it to illustrate exactly the opposite of her purported point. It was definitely an authoritarian and priggish declaration of moral superiority, poorly-conveyed and IMO poorly-conceived.

Words matter. Words matter a lot. If everyone just said what they meant and meant what they said we’d avoid so much trouble.
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Trade
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Jan 18, 2010
Messages
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Folks I saw some political posts sneak in and they have been removed. Please consider yourselves warned that this thread will be closed or removed if it moves that way.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,312
So to be clear, the 9/11 thread you do EVERY year is allowed to have prayers? really? So you are allowed one 'prayer' once a year in the 9/11 thread and we are all too?

I have considered that but I do not feel right speaking for a religion I am not. That would be false of me.
If anyone wanted to add prayers in their religion they are welcome to do so in that one thread on that one day.
 

inne

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
59
I haven't read through the whole thread. But the only time I hear 'virtue signalling' used in real life is when someone thinks objection to injustice can't possibly be motivated by genuine concern and must instead be a self-congratulatory performance. Which is really infuriating and sad.
 
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