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vintage cuts/settings, certifications and insurance...

smokey99

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
124
Scenario: (Im smartening up and not posting the link to the item in question...)

Lets assume that you purchase a vintage diamond and setting from a vendor which does not come with a certification of any sort. Would you have the stone removed and certified?
1. If not, would you just have it appraised in the setting?
2. If so, which lab would be most appropriate? Ive read that in some cases its better to have an EGL report for a vintage stone depending on the cut so that it retains a certain name, like Old European Cut, etc instead of being given a more modern round brilliant cut designation. Is this true, and also what other cuts besides an OEC would benefit from just getting an EGL cert to retain the name? (transitional/cushion/OMC/etc etc)

3. Next, what does a certfication cost from the various labs (EGL/GIA/AGS) ? Are there options for how detailed a report you will recieve?

4. And finally, what about insurance for a stone? Are there seperate companies providing insurance that are recommended? Does it fall under your homeowners/renters insurance? Is there a seperate policy required for something like this? Does it need to be insured by your compnay before being shipped to you, or is that covered by the seller via shipping insurance?

Lots of questions, I know. Thanks !
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,744
Hi Smokey- let me tackle a few of your very good questions:
It really depends a lot on the scope of the project.
The considerations for a $1000 ring would be totally different than a $10,000 item.
In some cases, removing a stone can cause damage to a vintage item- so that is also a case by case consideration.
GIA is the choice in my opinion.
I've been doing this a long time and have yet to hear one valid reason for using EGL- or more accurately put, a valid reason that a seller is proud to advertise.
So as a consumer owning a diamond, you're in a far stronger position owning a diamond with a GIA report.
In terms of categorizing the cut: GIA generally applies the correct name to the cut- in the rare case where they do not, and you can show them the error, they'd fix the report.

GIA charges by the carat- about $100 per carat ( roughly) for colorless - about 50% more for Fancy Colors
In the case of stones not to be removed from settings, you can submit the entire item to GIA.

I hope this helps!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
GIA is what I'd pick. Also they won't get the name wrong. It will be an OEC on the certificate. If you look on Ruby Lane you'll see some of the OEC's have GIA certificates.
 

GamGam

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
132
I have a stone (purchased from Old World Diamonds) with a GIA report, and it is classified: Old European Brilliant.
 

smokey99

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
124
Thank you all for your responses. :appl:

The stone Im basing all of this questioning on is actually an antique cushion cut in a vintage platinum setting. The stone is listed as an eyec clean K SI2. Because the setting needs a little brush up (which the seller will do), and the stone would be out during that period- I requested to have it certified. The EGL is who will do the cert which I'm not really too worried about. It's probably better than having the jewelers appraiser do it and plus from what I've seen reading the info on this site, the ratings average fairly close to GIA in clarity, and usually a grade (sometimes 2) off in color. For a warmer stone, I dont think this is necessarily an issue providing I like the way it faces up when I see it in person. My main goal is to make sure im paying a fair price for the piece I receieve. I also want to make sure that it is insured properly so that it can be properly replaced should a situation occur. (To that end I'll likely try to have it appraised by David Atlas who I see through the site resources is local to me, once received)

How about AFTER I decide I want this piece...After an appraisal, what are the recommended routes for insuring?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
smokey99|1316703164|3022905 said:
Thank you all for your responses. :appl:

The stone Im basing all of this questioning on is actually an antique cushion cut in a vintage platinum setting. The stone is listed as an eyec clean K SI2. Because the setting needs a little brush up (which the seller will do), and the stone would be out during that period- I requested to have it certified. The EGL is who will do the cert which I'm not really too worried about. It's probably better than having the jewelers appraiser do it and plus from what I've seen reading the info on this site, the ratings average fairly close to GIA in clarity, and usually a grade (sometimes 2) off in color. For a warmer stone, I dont think this is necessarily an issue providing I like the way it faces up when I see it in person. My main goal is to make sure im paying a fair price for the piece I receieve. I also want to make sure that it is insured properly so that it can be properly replaced should a situation occur. (To that end I'll likely try to have it appraised by David Atlas who I see through the site resources is local to me, once received)

How about AFTER I decide I want this piece...After an appraisal, what are the recommended routes for insuring?

why not get it sent to GIA instead of EGL?

insuring...popular options are Jewelers Mutual or getting a rider on your home insurance.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,153
Insurance comes in basically 3 flavors.

1) Homeowners/renters rider. This is a extention of your contract with your ‘regular’ insurer to cover things above and beyond their usual. Most policies exclude jewelry above about $2500 so a rider is required for a typical diamond ring. In the usual case they are agreeing to replace with like kind and quality in the case of a loss and they generally charge between 1-2% of your declared value in terms of premiums. These are offered by most of the companies you’ve heard of and who offer homeowners service.

2) Stand alone jewelry policies. There are a few companies including Jewelers Mutual, Gemshield and JIBNA who offer these. As the name says, these are policies that stand on their own. They don’t require a prior relationship with the company or any additional policies. They are replacement type and charge about the same premiums as the above.

3) Declared value policies. These are policies that are agreeing to pay a defined amount of cash in the case of a loss. Replacement, if you choose to do it, is your business. Most of these are attached to homeowners policies and, even with that, they’re getting harder and harder to find if you’re insuring relatively normal sorts of goods (under say $50,000). Expect premiums that are about double what you’ll get on the replacement type. Chubb, Firemans Fund, Lloyds of London and Travellers are examples of companies that get into this business.

I’m a long time client of Jewelers Mutual for a variety of reasons but mostly it’s because I like cheap premiums and I don’t like the possibility of a jewelry claim affecting my homeowners coverage.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,153
Rockdiamond|1316645529|3022469 said:
Hi Smokey- let me tackle a few of your very good questions:
It really depends a lot on the scope of the project.
The considerations for a $1000 ring would be totally different than a $10,000 item.
In some cases, removing a stone can cause damage to a vintage item- so that is also a case by case consideration.
GIA is the choice in my opinion.
I've been doing this a long time and have yet to hear one valid reason for using EGL- or more accurately put, a valid reason that a seller is proud to advertise.
So as a consumer owning a diamond, you're in a far stronger position owning a diamond with a GIA report.
In terms of categorizing the cut: GIA generally applies the correct name to the cut- in the rare case where they do not, and you can show them the error, they'd fix the report.

GIA charges by the carat- about $100 per carat ( roughly) for colorless - about 50% more for Fancy Colors
In the case of stones not to be removed from settings, you can submit the entire item to GIA.

I hope this helps!
One of the rather annoying things with GIA is that they'll take a lovely OEC and call it a poor or fair round brilliant. Dealers choose labs because they're useful advertising to promote a particular stone and even outside of the clarity and color issues, 'poor' is not a word you want to appear ANYWHERE in your advertising.
 

smokey99

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
124
denverappraiser|1316704142|3022913 said:
Rockdiamond|1316645529|3022469 said:
Hi Smokey- let me tackle a few of your very good questions:
It really depends a lot on the scope of the project.
The considerations for a $1000 ring would be totally different than a $10,000 item.
In some cases, removing a stone can cause damage to a vintage item- so that is also a case by case consideration.
GIA is the choice in my opinion.
I've been doing this a long time and have yet to hear one valid reason for using EGL- or more accurately put, a valid reason that a seller is proud to advertise.
So as a consumer owning a diamond, you're in a far stronger position owning a diamond with a GIA report.
In terms of categorizing the cut: GIA generally applies the correct name to the cut- in the rare case where they do not, and you can show them the error, they'd fix the report.

GIA charges by the carat- about $100 per carat ( roughly) for colorless - about 50% more for Fancy Colors
In the case of stones not to be removed from settings, you can submit the entire item to GIA.

I hope this helps!
One of the rather annoying things with GIA is that they'll take a lovely OEC and call it a poor or fair round brilliant. Dealers choose labs because they're useful advertising to promote a particular stone and even outside of the clarity and color issues, 'poor' is not a word you want to appear ANYWHERE in your advertising.

Thanks !!
 
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