Vintage 4.5ish Carat Round (with Tapered Baguettes) to Reset. Should I Consider Recutting?

[gemshow]

I’ve very gratefully come to own an heirloom round with tapered baguettes weighing, I'm told, approx. 4.5 carats and am considering reworking it (with the gifter’s permission).

Ultimately I'd like to send the center stone to the GIA for grading (I don't have specs) and then reset it:
-as low as possible for aesthetics and wearability, and
-in a setting to subtly give the round the slightest suggestion of squarer or cushiony appearance. Nothing approaching illusion setting or a halo, just prongs proportioned and shaped with this aim in mind. Maybe double claw. Maybe a hair bulkier than need be, but shapely. Maybe non-baguette sidestones to diminish the doorknob effect. This is all preliminary.

Before either of the above, I'm wondering if it makes sense to evaluate for recut to achieve more ideal performance. I love what I’ve seen of Brian Gavin’s recuts and I think I’d like to at least send it for analysis. I am curious to see a sarin report, whether this is a candidate and what my options may be.

I’m happy with the stone’s light return, but is has a very low crown angle, right? Would you call this a pancake diamond?
I’m not sure this could be addressed without a lot of weight/diameter loss? (I know this cannot be determined based on photos)
I don't want to lose a huge amount of size, because, while I have permission from the gifter to make a project of this, I don't want to seem ungrateful by making too drastic a change.

Facet symmetry isn’t perfect, but I consider that part of the stone’s vintage charm. And I think it’s not perfectly round but again that doesn't bother me except to the extent it impacts performance (and unless there is a nasty surprise hidden under a prong)

I have an ASET scope but haven’t been able to get any worthwhile pictures

Ring was initially purchased before 1970 and likely much earlier

Please share your thoughts

 

[glitterata]

I'm no help: I think it's wonderful just the way it is. Nowadays it's so easy to get a contemporary look with cheap, huge, well-cut lab diamonds, if that's what you want--but a true old vintage ring like that, with its original, natural diamond that size, is a rare thing. I love the classic baguette side stones and the graceful u-shaped gallery. I love the wonky girdle. I love the brightness. It has great presence on your hand. I think it's just beautiful on you!

 

[lovedogs]

I'd personally ask Southwest or BGD about recutting, because I think it would still be large and gorgeous!

 

[MissGotRocks]

If you don’t ask about recutting, you will always wonder. The decision to be made will come after you hear how much weight and diameter it might lose with a recut. It does appear to have a large table and a low crown. Not sure how that would parlay into a recut. It does look to be a brilliant diamond so leaving it in all its glory might be your best answer.

Please come back with updates for us; you are indeed fortunate to be gifted such a ring!

 

[canuk-gal]

If you don’t ask about recutting, you will always wonder. The decision to be made will come after you hear how much weight and diameter it might lose with a recut. It does appear to have a large table and a low crown. Not sure how that would parlay into a recut. It does look to be a brilliant diamond so leaving it in all its glory might be your best answer.

Please come back with updates for us; you are indeed fortunate to be gifted such a ring!

+ a billion. beat me to it MGR!

 

[Bron357]

I’ll second I’m of no help because I think it is absolutely fabulous as is.
I understand your desire for an adjusted shape but is it worth sacrificing carat weight? Certainly enquire to satisfy your curiosity but think twice before proceeding.

 

[Bron357]

I don’t know if this idea appeals to minimise the visual height but this is my “bombe” style ring.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

What a ring! What a ring.

You should definitely explore all avenues. I would also get to some precision cuts to observe if you don't already own one. Make sure it's actually what you want and actually better than what you have.

There's something to be said about your (likely 1950's?) early American brilliant cut. It looks like a 60/60.
There aren't that many floating around! It would be a shame to lose it if it's well cut and the ever brightness can't be beat, not even by precision cut. 'Perfection' isn't always better when stacked against rarity and performance. It depends on how this stone performs.

I have some really well proportioned early brilliants in a ring(much smaller than yours) and they are the brightest diamonds I own and I discovered, my favorite, of the modern cut flavors.

Yes, let us know how it goes.
This is an exciting journey!

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Such fun! It’s a gorgeous piece. If it were mine, I would send it to GIA so you know the specs. My Godzilla stone is a very similar cut, and as much as I love OECs, I love my early modern brilliant too.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’d be hesitant to recut it as it looks like an early MRB, maybe from the 1950s as everyone has said. The setting looks contemporary to the diamond too.

The table is very large but boy oh boy is that a deep stone! Unless I am just not seeing it right, the pavilion looks super deep. That might allow some room for a tweak. But here is the thing — I don’t think that crown angle will allow you to recut to ideal parameters. So if you recut it, it still will not be a great cut by modern standards. Knowing that I would personally FAR rather have an original antique! Or nearly antique, just another 15 years and you hit the mark. I’d even leave it in that setting and wear it and brag about it provenance.

It’s totally true that everyone and their dog will have a 4ct diamond soon in this era of cheap lab diamonds, and most of those will be perfectly cut modern round brilliants. Your wonky, blazing bright, antique will be so rare and special!! I’d keep it as is and flaunt the shit out of it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Here’s what I’m talking about the depth. There is only a millimeter or two between the culet and the shank of the ring. Not much room there to lower it much more if you reset it! And lots of weight ($$$$) and provenance ($$$$) lost if you recut it.

 

[glitterata]

It looks like the world's best ice cream cone, with the scoop of ice cream about to arrive. I really, really love it.

 

[caf]

It’s gorgeous. I’d explore the avenues suggested above but I’d probably keep it as is. Perfection in old stones is overrated.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Do you have any documentation of the color or clarity of the diamond? It looks to be a bright, white stone!

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I can’t wait to hear what GIA says! I vote to keep her as is…. I love the nostalgia of both the setting and the diamond.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yeah it look very colourless in these images! I’d love to know it you’ve ever had it appraised?

 

[headlight]

I had 2 stones recut by BGD.
First off, he will send it off for grading at GIA after it is cut so you can save that step and no need to send it off prior to the recut.
What you need to know about recutting is that the recut is limited by what the current cut is… it is not the same as cutting it from the rough. As example, if it currently has a very large table, you aren’t going to be able to create a stone with a 55 table. Same for things like crown height, etc.
With that said, it can potentially still acquire that coveted AGS000 (whatever GIA now gives it with the companion report) cut quality/super ideal. However, there is no guarantee but know that it will still most definitely be vastly improved.
As for weight loss, the stone is so large that you have wiggle room to lose a little and most likely it won’t be substantial. I think, as was the case with my two recuts, losing a little won’t that isn’t noticeable but yields a far more beautiful stone is so worth it and more valuable than something a little larger but not as attractive nor as good a performer.
You don’t love the ring as is and I don’t think until you pursue this you will be satisfied with it.

 

[Roselina]

A stone with a lot of personality. I would never ever change that. My advise: Leave it, love it!

 

[headlight]

I think what it comes down to is for you to decide how you want to “view” this gift… do you want to see it as a vintage type thing, or do you want to see it has a performance project. Only you can decide. Both are great ways to go!
I think the mounting is gorgeous, personally. But I like the baguette on the side style and I am not opposed to a ring that sits up higher. I also love the accompanying bands. But you might want something else and that’s an exciting thing, too!

 

[gemshow]

Wow! Thank you all sincerely for your kind words and feedback. I’m overwhelmed by the encouragement to leave it as-is, I expected more posts in favor of recutting due to the low crown.

I’m usually a preservationist on all design fronts, and would be inclined to leave it completely alone if it were set a little lower (and not loose in the setting). I love the setting’s timeless, classic style

@Dreamer_D I agree, this stone does look deep in addition to having a shallow crown. I’ll add another side shot to show this, you are correct. The depth compounds my feeling that the stone is set too high, because I’m a strictly as-low-as-possible setting gal. I mean I want the culet nearly scraping my finger in every case. Even if this could be lowered by 1mm, it would be a relief to my picky eye.

@ItsMainelyYou thanks for this advice. I think your mid-century estimate is probably correct based on the appearance of the ring and stone, and its original owner who was born around 1916. I was also wondering if this might be a 60/60.
I’ve never possessed a PS-level superideal modern RB (and that’s not what I’m trying to turn this one into), my original e-ring is an August Vintage Cushion which I love, and I’ve cycled through several round pre-loved Tiffany solitaries with low HCA scores. I’m not usually a round diamond girl, so this is new for me and I do like that the cut has personality.

I fully agree with those who say the charm/provenance of this ring is special while vintage and intact vs. having a stone cut to ideal proportions. I’m happy with the stone’s light performance (but don’t doubt that it could be improved by a recut). The only aspect I’d change from a visual standpoint is the flat crown. The overall shape of the stone seems… unusual, and particularly noticeable because of how large it is.

Also fully agree with comments re: the proliferation of large lab-grown diamonds. I am already noticing this.

@headlight thank you for sharing your experience. I saw and saved your threads during my many, many previous searches about recutting and it is so helpful to read about your experience. And I think suggestion re: deciding how to proceed is perfect. Initially, I was thinking a hybrid. Maybe improving the stone a bit and re-creating the classic setting but with the stone set lower and chunky-ish prongs (I know that sounds unattractive) to square it off a bit.

To answer some questions:
-I’ve never had it appraised and have no documentation, the word is it was appraised in the early 1980s but there is no paperwork. I only recently was gifted this ring and I am on the edge of my seat wanting to have it evaluated.

Regarding color, I have to say I’m a little confused. I’ve seen this ring and tried it on from time to time growing up. I always thought it was a very warm stone, but once we were home together I gave it a good cleaning in the ultrasound and the color seems to have magically improved. I see warmth under certain lights, it’s hard to capture in photos but I will share some below that I think shows some color.

I think it’s likely that the piece was originally purchased from Rattray & Co in Dundee, Scotland and it is accompanied by a wrap/enhancer which I am unlikely to wear but will hang onto.

So now my questions are:

-how resilient is a platinum setting?
The stone will need to be removed from the setting for evaluation, and it’s loose in the setting anyway. Do platinum settings typically withstand unmounting/remounting?

Is it possible for a skilled jeweler to adjust a setting so the center stone can sit a bit lower?

Perhaps I will reach out to BGD for a recut. Southwest I’m not as familiar with, but I did look them up. Any experiences with Southwest?

With enhancer:


For depth:




Trying to show a bit of the warmth I see here:

 

[headlight]

If you are okay with not recutting it can be lowered in the mounting and I think that will make a big difference.
I do think you need to get out of your head thoughts about “too deep this” or “too shallow that”… it will only torture you and no one thinks anything like this if they look at it.
Platinum will be fine with any adjustments.
I have heard good things about Southwest.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Diamond color can seem to change all the time depending on what lighting environment you are in at the moment. Course the Diamond doesn’t change; only the lighting situation. Will be interesting to see it certed and what GIA comes back with in terms of color/clarity. I think there have been several folks on PS that have used Southwest Diamond cutters very successfully. Brian Gavin would be a good resource as well.

 

[headlight]

The reason I went with BGD was because he was “the guy” at the center of the whole super ideal thing and I wanted the diamonds to be branded stones.
If you don’t mind putting a little money into it right now as a trial (and you need to get the stone secured anyhow), I would have them lower it and wear it and enjoy having it and you’ll get many comments and you can see how you feel about wearing it and then make a better decision about recut or not.

 

[headlight]

In not one of your photos do I see warmth which says something because in that size stone color is not easy to hide! Looks very bright.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

My father had a phrase, appropriated from a used car salesman. "If it were mine, I'd leave it alone."

 

[headlight]

My father had a phrase, appropriated from a used car salesman. "If it were mine, I'd leave it alone."

Love this! My husband says it all the time and I’m finally beginning to follow that very wise advice.

 

[Ally T]

Personally, I love the romance of the stone being in its original setting. It’s beautiful & authentic. I’m not sure how the diamond performs, but only you can decide if you like it or not. Go with your heart.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Environment can make any diamond look tinted. But nothing can make a highly tinted diamond look like this. I think its near colorless range at least!

 

[lulu_ma]

You're in an enviable position!

While you are playing around with the ring, these might be a fun tools to get:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

Then you can measure the mm of the diamond. It doesn't hurt to have the stone assessed for a recut so you know what is possible.

Also, to my eyes the stone looks GHI in most of the pics.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

 

[gemshow]

I would have them lower it and wear it and enjoy having it and you’ll get many comments and you can see how you feel about wearing it and then make a better decision about recut or not.

I really like this idea.