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Very Clean Chocolate Diamond e-ring: Price/Opinions

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skippitb

Rough_Rock
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I am sorry ahead of time for the length of this post. Please bear with me.

My fiance and I are currently engagement ring shopping and are having a hard time finding something that we both like. I really would like a fancy colored diamond or gemstone e-ring, but he has not liked any of the fancy colored diamonds we have seen and thinks that colored gemstones do not sparkle enough for his tastes. In our shopping the other day we came across a beautiful brown diamond ring.

The ring has a .79 brown diamond in a simple white gold cathedral setting. I looked at the diamond under a microscope and it is one of the cleanest diamonds I have seen yet (I have been actively shopping and looking for about 2 months) the jeweler said that it is a VS1 or 2. It has a single inclusion that looks like a very tiny bubble. The diamond is a very true medium dark brown color similar to coca-cola and has a lot of sparkle within it. It is not gray, red, yellow, orange, or pinkish at all. It is dark like most cognacs but not golden at all. It is brown like those described as chocolate but doesn''t look smokey like most I have seen pictures of. I cannot comment on its cut as I can not tell just by looking yet and it doesn''t have any paperwork. The store is having a going out of business sale and the jeweler has said she thinks she will have a hard time selling the ring because people in her small town just don''t like brown. The going-out-of-business price is $1600, down from $3250.

Here is the problem. I have not researched brown diamonds as well as the other colors and don''t have any idea what is a fair price on this ring. From what I have found it seems that browns with other colored undertones are preferred by most and are more highly valued. It also seems that the lighter colored champagne stones are also more higly valued. Personally, I saw another brown with red and yellow undertones that I found quite ugly and I don''t like the light brown stones at all (to me they just look like off color colorless diamonds). I think I prefer the true rich brown of this stone. I have not been able to find a stone online that is like it anywhere (most diamonds of a similar tone and richness I am finding are obviously highly included or look grayish and have no sparkle). It also seems that most people say brown diamonds are of low quality, however this is the cleanest stone I have seen that someone called a VS. In fact, it is cleaner (to my amateur diamond, though microscope-experienced eye) than any stone I have seen, other than one VVS1 I looked at.

Both my fiance and I like the ring better than any we have seen (this brown diamond is the only colored stone my fiance has liked at all), but we are worried about buying something of low quality and over paying for it. The ring is well below our budget but it seems to be priced higher than any other browns I can find. But then again, I cant find any browns of similar color and quality.

What does everyone think about the pricing and quality of this diamond. Am I just crazy and like a stone that no one would ever want? Is it high clarity even valued among brown diamonds? What about it not having a report? If I buy it should I send it to GIA? Should I just stay away from browns all together? Please help!
 
Well, first of all, I am not the biggst fan of colored diamonds. I can appreciate the beauty, but, they just aren''t for me. They certianly make for show stoppers once you get up into the large carat weight stones.

I dont know what the popularity is of the brown diamond...I know yellow, pink and blue are HUGE colors. So, I wouldn''t base your decision off of the "sought" after value of the diamond...just off of what you''re "gut reaction" is....

If you love it, then it''s the stone for you! And it does sound like a good price for the carat weight, by the way!
 
Skipitb,

Welcome!! You have come to the right place for help!!

If you love it, then get it! But I think that with a little looking online, and with the help of all the people here on PS, you can do better. As you will learn if you hang around on this forum, cut is by far the most important factor in determining a diamonds sparkle and brilliance (diamond performance), so unless you know that about your stone you can't really judge whether you have a "good deal." For around $1700 you could get a premium cut, .59ct H colour, VS2 diamond like this from Whiteflash: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-540873.htm . This makes me think that a chocolate diamond could be found for much less since, even though it is a fancy, most people don't like brown diamonds. I may be wrong about this, so sorry if I am leading you down a garder path!!

As for your BF not liking coloured gemstones, I wonder if you have seen any really well cut ones? They can sparkle like crazy when cut well, it just isn't the same type of sparkle as a diamond. Check out http://www.whitesgems.com/gallery/index.htm for some examples of premium cut gemstones.

Anyways, hopefully some people will chime in with some more informed opinions than I can give you, I just thought I'd give you my relatively newbie 2cents!

Happy hunting!

DD
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Has it been color or clarity treated at all? Would this matter to you?

Yes, do get an apprasial. It will help clarity your thoughts at least.

I think it sounds beautiful. If this one is haunting your thoughts - do it.

Given the circumstance, I'd try to talk them down in price, also.

Should you ever want something else, it can become a beautiful necklace or right hand ring.

Best Wishes.
 
Date: 1/25/2008 4:31:47 PM
Author:skippitb
I am sorry ahead of time for the length of this post. Please bear with me.

My fiance and I are currently engagement ring shopping and are having a hard time finding something that we both like. I really would like a fancy colored diamond or gemstone e-ring, but he has not liked any of the fancy colored diamonds we have seen and thinks that colored gemstones do not sparkle enough for his tastes. In our shopping the other day we came across a beautiful brown diamond ring.

The ring has a .79 brown diamond in a simple white gold cathedral setting. I looked at the diamond under a microscope and it is one of the cleanest diamonds I have seen yet (I have been actively shopping and looking for about 2 months) the jeweler said that it is a VS1 or 2. It has a single inclusion that looks like a very tiny bubble. The diamond is a very true medium dark brown color similar to coca-cola and has a lot of sparkle within it. It is not gray, red, yellow, orange, or pinkish at all. It is dark like most cognacs but not golden at all. It is brown like those described as chocolate but doesn''t look smokey like most I have seen pictures of. I cannot comment on its cut as I can not tell just by looking yet and it doesn''t have any paperwork. The store is having a going out of business sale and the jeweler has said she thinks she will have a hard time selling the ring because people in her small town just don''t like brown. The going-out-of-business price is $1600, down from $3250.

Here is the problem. I have not researched brown diamonds as well as the other colors and don''t have any idea what is a fair price on this ring. From what I have found it seems that browns with other colored undertones are preferred by most and are more highly valued. It also seems that the lighter colored champagne stones are also more higly valued. Personally, I saw another brown with red and yellow undertones that I found quite ugly and I don''t like the light brown stones at all (to me they just look like off color colorless diamonds). I think I prefer the true rich brown of this stone. I have not been able to find a stone online that is like it anywhere (most diamonds of a similar tone and richness I am finding are obviously highly included or look grayish and have no sparkle). It also seems that most people say brown diamonds are of low quality, however this is the cleanest stone I have seen that someone called a VS. In fact, it is cleaner (to my amateur diamond, though microscope-experienced eye) than any stone I have seen, other than one VVS1 I looked at.

Both my fiance and I like the ring better than any we have seen (this brown diamond is the only colored stone my fiance has liked at all), but we are worried about buying something of low quality and over paying for it. The ring is well below our budget but it seems to be priced higher than any other browns I can find. But then again, I cant find any browns of similar color and quality.

What does everyone think about the pricing and quality of this diamond. Am I just crazy and like a stone that no one would ever want? Is it high clarity even valued among brown diamonds? What about it not having a report? If I buy it should I send it to GIA? Should I just stay away from browns all together? Please help!
RE: dreamer_dachsie:

"Welcome!! You have come to the right place for help!!

If you love it, then get it! But I think that with a little looking online, and with the help of all the people here on PS, you can do better. As you will learn if you hang around on this forum, cut is by far the most important factor in determining a diamonds sparkle and brilliance (diamond performance), so unless you know that about your stone you can''t really judge whether you have a "good deal." For around $1700 you could get a premium cut, .59ct H colour, VS2 diamond like this from Whiteflash: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-540873.htm . This makes me think that a chocolate diamond could be found for much less since, even though it is a fancy, most people don''t like brown diamonds. I may be wrong about this, so sorry if I am leading you down a garder path!!


As for your BF not liking coloured gemstones, I wonder if you have seen any really well cut ones? They can sparkle like crazy when cut well, it just isn''t the same type of sparkle as a diamond. Check out http://www.whitesgems.com/gallery/index.htm for some examples of premium cut gemstones.


Anyways, hopefully some people will chime in with some more informed opinions than I can give you, I just thought I''d give you my relatively newbie 2cents!


Happy hunting!


DD"


Do some more shopping..., something does not look to good in this picture!!!
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I''m not sure if the above is really comparable for price comparison, though. OP is talking about a .79 carat. What''s posted is a .59. There is a noticeable size difference between a .6ish and a .8ish carat. There''s also a price jump over the .75 carat mark. A .8ish ACA H, SI1 would run you in the $3,000 range (in fact, with PS discount, mine came in just a hair over that). There''s also the price of the setting to factor in.

I think the $1700 for the complete ring is a good price if you love the stone. You''d pay $300-500 for most basic white gold settings, so you''re looking at $1200-1400 for the stone, and that *seems* reasonable. Given that the store is going out of business, I doubt that you''d have the option of getting it to an appraiser before buying . . . Maybe call an appraiser and see what you should be looking for in a brown diamond, see if there''s any cert papers the jeweler can give you. Maybe search for any online vendors that might have colored stones? But, bottom line, if you love it, I think it sounds like a good deal.
 
I think a brown diamond sounds beautiful! Put that in a a setting with a halo (like the one suggested) and I think it'll be a stunner. I would do a search on here to find out more about brown (are they called cognac?) diamonds to double check that you've made a good choice. Ultimately though, if you love it then that's all that matters.
 
For sure colored diamonds are not for everyone. Heck I never thought they were for me but when one hits you upside the head [if you know what I mean, LOL] ,then I think you should pay attention. I believe that you should go by your eyes with any colored stone. You stated that both you and your FI liked this ring and stone better than any you have seen. I think that counts for a lot. I like the idea of calling an appraiser to see if there is something specific with a brown diamond you should be looking for. I really can''t help with pricing but I don''t think the $1600 sounds unreasonable for a complete ring. Good luck in your search if you decide not to get this one!
 
Well, I can tell you for true, that finding brown diamonds online is nigh unto impossible, and finding one locally??? Hah! Don''t even bother asking. The B&M jewelers pretty much look at you from the moment that word comes out of your mouth, as if you were some cheap SOB wasting their time. They probably will look blank and certainly won''t have more than one or two in stock, if THAT.

I''ve hunted high and low, (I haven''t called anyone, but I don''t have to call a jeweler to find plenty of beautifully cut whiter diamonds...right?) and not found any decently CUT ones. I suspect that cutters don''t waste their time cutting ideals on browns. I could be wrong and I would LOVE one of the PS vendors to apprise me of how wrong I am. Seriously. No. REALLY. :-)

I LOVE brown diamonds. I fell in love with them years and years ago when I was visiting Santa Fe, and all the best designers there were using them. Must have been a fad at the time. But they were high quality, and sparkled like mad, and were the color of medium golden topaz. Naturally, at that time I was poor and could barely afford the vacation, let alone a diamond of any color.... I''ll never forget though, I did go to a local store back at that time, (in dream mode, don''tcha know) and found ONE guy who had a truly gorgeous one. It was a warm medium brown, well cut .87 as I recall, and he only wanted $1200. Sigh....but again, I was young and poor.
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Anyway, I think they''re gorgeous, and if you do too, then don''t let anyone else tell you that you should go for white stones. Get what you love!! That said however, I love them ALL, pretty much! ;-) But I really DO intend to find a killer brown diamond one of these days. The only reason we got a white for my ER, was that I just didn''t want to take the time to thrash about it that much at the time....
 
OK, I am no expert on coloured diamonds. I love pinks, blues & greens, but have never been fond of cognac, champagne or other such colours. I've always thought they were just industry marketing hype for selling off inferior colour stones. (Apologies to those that like these: each to their own!).

Having said that I was watching QVC UK (blush!!) last night and did see a very pretty half carat chocolate diamond in a ring. The colour was lovely, very similar to coca-cola, as you described... and although I wouldn't buy it myself, I could certainly see the appeal.

The picture on their website looks absolutely AWFUL (nothing at all like the stone looked on TV), and I can't get the video to work, which doesn't help. However, the link is here in case it gets fixed.

I only mention it because the ring is priced at £183 (about $366) and I thought it might be useful for comparison... although no info is given regarding clarity etc.

NB. the description says oval cut, but it looks jolly like an emerald cut to me! :)

x x x

*ETA* If you love the ring you found, then buy it!!! :D
 
Date: 2/16/2008 3:24:13 PM
Author: ksinger
Well, I can tell you for true, that finding brown diamonds online is nigh unto impossible, and finding one locally??? Hah! Don''t even bother asking. The B&M jewelers pretty much look at you from the moment that word comes out of your mouth, as if you were some cheap SOB wasting their time. They probably will look blank and certainly won''t have more than one or two in stock, if THAT.

I''ve hunted high and low, (I haven''t called anyone, but I don''t have to call a jeweler to find plenty of beautifully cut whiter diamonds...right?) and not found any decently CUT ones. I suspect that cutters don''t waste their time cutting ideals on browns. I could be wrong and I would LOVE one of the PS vendors to apprise me of how wrong I am. Seriously. No. REALLY. :-)

I LOVE brown diamonds. I fell in love with them years and years ago when I was visiting Santa Fe, and all the best designers there were using them. Must have been a fad at the time. But they were high quality, and sparkled like mad, and were the color of medium golden topaz. Naturally, at that time I was poor and could barely afford the vacation, let alone a diamond of any color.... I''ll never forget though, I did go to a local store back at that time, (in dream mode, don''tcha know) and found ONE guy who had a truly gorgeous one. It was a warm medium brown, well cut .87 as I recall, and he only wanted $1200. Sigh....but again, I was young and poor.
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Anyway, I think they''re gorgeous, and if you do too, then don''t let anyone else tell you that you should go for white stones. Get what you love!! That said however, I love them ALL, pretty much! ;-) But I really DO intend to find a killer brown diamond one of these days. The only reason we got a white for my ER, was that I just didn''t want to take the time to thrash about it that much at the time....
This sounds like the same thing that happened to me when I was trying to find a cushion. I even had one jeweler tell me "I don''t want and ugly, squahed diamond" and try to change my mind
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OK, I am no expert on coloured diamonds. I love pinks, blues & greens, but have never been fond of cognac, champagne or other such colours. I''ve always thought they were just industry marketing hype for selling off inferior colour stones. (Apologies to those that like these: each to their own!).


Having said that I was watching QVC UK (blush!!) last night and did see a very pretty half carat chocolate diamond in a ring. The colour was lovely, very similar to coca-cola, as you described... and although I wouldn''t buy it myself, I could certainly see the appeal.


The picture on their website looks absolutely AWFUL (nothing at all like the stone looked on TV), and I can''t get the video to work, which doesn''t help. However, the link is here in case it gets fixed.


I only mention it because the ring is priced at £183 (about $366) and I thought it might be useful for comparison... although no info is given regarding clarity etc.


NB. the description says oval cut, but it looks jolly like an emerald cut to me! :)


x x x


*ETA* If you love the ring you found, then buy it!!! :D


Not in any way trying to start a fight here, please believe it, but I really take exception to your comment about "inferior color" diamonds. The market for WHITE diamonds was CREATED by "marketing hype". If you look at the diamonds historically, the majority of the famous ones are colored. The white hype worked so well in fact, that now people think that browns are inferior, or that any color that isn''t absolute white is less desirable - as the endless thrash about E versus F versus H, etc should remind us. I wonder what WE would think - uninfluenced - about a stone if we didn''t have the sellers and graders TELLING us was more or less desirable.....

Remember, there is no intrinsic value in any of this...not diamonds, not gold, not platinum...it''s all what WE bring to it, not the other way around. The wine tastes better when it costs $90 than when it costs $10....
 
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Remember, there is no intrinsic value in any of this...not diamonds, not gold, not platinum...it''s all what WE bring to it, not the other way around. The wine tastes better when it costs $90 than when it costs $10....
Very well said. I totally agree. I just love fancy grey diamonds, which are "inferior." I think you should buy what you are attracted to regardless of what is in style.

Susan
 
I love brown diamonds. When I got hubby a w-ring upgrade about 15 years ago now (when we got married, men just didn't wear diamonds, and he wanted some bling too
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), he got a brown diamond with 6 sparkly Lazarre Kaplan melee white side diamonds, all set in yellow gold done by a local designer. We loved that ring then, and we still love it today. I'm still waiting to find the perfect brown diamond for myself. They are easier to find today than they were 15 years ago, but there are still not that many around.

If you both like the diamond, it doesn't matter if most other people prefer white diamonds.

Brown diamonds hide inclusions a whole lot better than white diamonds, so having super-duper clarity is less of an issue for them.

If you think that the brown diamond is pretty, for heaven's sake, get it!!! The sparkle is a very good sign. You can always reset it into another piece of jewelry if you find a bigger, better stone to your liking later.

Good luck!
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I apologise sincerely if I upset you.

I was simply expressing my own tastes - and certainly did not intend any offense by it. I clearly expressed myself badly, and for that I am sorry.

My own ring is yellow gold, which is a rare thing round these parts, as most people find yellow gold old-fashioned or otherwise unappealing... so I know how it feels to have a taste for something which is not necessarily liked by other people.

You are right, of course, about the taste for white diamonds being created by marketing hype... as is pretty much the taste for *anything* bought by consumers. Again, I was expressing my own opinion and did not mean to sound derogatory about stones in these colours.

I do realise that some people love them very much, and that''s great. If we were all the sme the world would be a very boring place.

I hope you will accept my apology. I feel most upset that I offended you... I was only actually trying to help in posting that link, .

x x x
 

For my part, no offense taken and no apology necessary. One of the other things I do reflexively is read the unspoken assumptions of people based on their words or writing. Sometimes it''s better if I leave that stuff alone, actually.



But I really do see a disdain of anything but the whitest diamonds, from the sellers (see my comment above about the B&M store when you tell them what you want) and from the public. The public because they pretty much buy what they''re told is best, and the sellers because their marketing worked SO well, that now they can''t make nearly the profit from browns or faint yellows.



Furthermore, from what I''ve been able to tell, on this board and out in the ordinary world, most people have never seen, in person, a really spectacular brown diamond. Check out these, from Fairchild & Co, Santa Fe. (Good old Santa Fe. Mecca for me. Just love vactioning there!)
Nothing like brown diamonds in 18k yellow gold.

http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=1


http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=333


http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=330


http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=366



 
Date: 2/17/2008 9:22:21 AM
Author: ksinger


Furthermore, from what I've been able to tell, on this board and out in the ordinary world, most people have never seen, in person, a really spectacular brown diamond. Check out these, from Fairchild & Co, Santa Fe. (Good old Santa Fe. Mecca for me. Just love vactioning there!)
Nothing like brown diamonds in 18k yellow gold.


http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=1




http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=333




http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=330




http://www.fairchildjewelry.com/detail.php?cat=1&id=366





These are beautiful! I do not have any colored diamond jewelry pieces, but I could definitely see myself flashing around that first beauty! I think that the most important thing here is A) that your and FI love it....and B) that an independant appraiser has looked at it and agrees that it is what it was sold as, if not better.
 
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the brown diamonds! When me and my boyfriend started looking for e-rings, we asked out jeweler if he could find us a pear chocolate diamond. He found us one and if it weren''t out of our price range at that moment we would have bought it in a second! Heres a pic of my first love!
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MPering.jpg
 
Thank you for not taking offense. :)

When I re-read my post I realised it read in a way I hadn''t intended. I now consider myself duly educated in phrasing my opinions more carefully and considerately.

I should say that I really don''t consider cognac/champagne diamonds inferior in any way... it''s just the way my brain interprets the colour. As you say, I think I have been so influenced to value ''whiteness'' in a stone, to the exclusion of these colours.

I checked out the links you posted and those stones are gorgeous! I think I appreciate brown diamonds with an *intense* colour, but not those with only a pale hint of colour. (Pretty much like I have absolutely no appreciation for red wine... even the very finest ones are totally wasted on me - I just don''t enjoy them!).

BTW - that H&A brown diamond is spectacular. :)

x x x
 
This duscussion is very interesting! When I originally suggested that the op could "do better" I was expressing my scepticism that she would get the best price and cut of a chocolate diamond at a B&M, even at "close out" prices. I love all colours of daimonds myself, and would adore a beautifull cut, fully saturated chocolate stone like the ones that ksinger posted!

DD
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I am crazy about cognac diamonds.

I saw one in De Beers before xmas that was this amazing chocolate brown colour - if I had the money I''d have bought it on the spot.

I wanted to show it to FI last month, but I couldn''t find it when I went in. I asked the manager and he instantly knew which one it was. He said it was the best he had ever seen and he wasn''t surprised I''d come back for another look - but it had been sold.

I don''t see them as inferior at all - they only diamond I''d ever want is either an amazing OEC or a chocolate one. The fire on them makes them look amazing.

If it''s what you like, I say go for it - a tiny white diamond halo would make it look incredible.

Can you get pictures for us?
 
I say if you love the brown, get it! Doesn''t matter what others think. But I agree, shop around if you can, PS is a great resource and hopefully it will lead you to the stone of your dreams!

Doesn''t Rev. Run Simmons'' wife have a line of Brown/Cognac Jewelry?
I watch the show Run''s House and they promote her line, I believe it''s on QVC....(another poster mentioned this I believe)
 
Date: 2/16/2008 8:42:06 PM
Author: susiegrneyes

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Remember, there is no intrinsic value in any of this...not diamonds, not gold, not platinum...it''s all what WE bring to it, not the other way around. The wine tastes better when it costs $90 than when it costs $10....
Very well said. I totally agree. I just love fancy grey diamonds, which are ''inferior.'' I think you should buy what you are attracted to regardless of what is in style.

Susan
Susan - I just noticed this 3.58 ct fancy grey diamond here Link At $19,650, it''s just a fraction of the price of a similarly sized white diamond, and undoubtedly much more rare.

1825_di_image_a3faf.jpg
 
Wow! You guys are great at finding such rare stones online (at least I assume they are more rare since I have never seen them in person)!

I know I am no help at the original question of the thread as in if this is a fair price. I just wanted to say I had never seen a chocolate diamond!!! If someone had just said a chocolate diamond I would have thought ewww
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, just because it is so hard to picture in my head, but "seeing it" is TOTALLY different, it's beautiful
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!

I think with darker stones it is important to get one that has a good cut so it will sparkle nicely. I know cut is important for any diamond, but I would think a darker color one would look more dull if it wasn't cut right compared to a white one.

So the fact that this diamond is speaking to you says something! Can you put a price on that? Seems like it is the perfect color/shade in what you are looking for, FI likes it, it's sparkly...hmm. You said yourself you have seen a few others and didn't like them. Not to mention it sounds like these babies are somewhat hard to find. The price doesn't seem way out there compared to what others posted. What is their return policy? You can get it appraised to put your mind at ease, but honestly if you love your diamond, will it matter what the paper says? Don't get me wrong I would still get it appraised, but I don't think I would necessarily let that make the decision for me, not on something hard to find/rare and something I loved. Shopping online may be an option, but since it is a color it might be harder to judge what it looks like in person vs. the computer monitor.

....just my $0.02

Please come back and post pictures, we don't often get colors!!
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Just thought you might to see this website in case they have anthing you can compare the price with.

I will not be held responsible for any buying frenzy on this website of anyone that looks at it!

I had a bit of a look, but it did seem to me that the stone you found was a good price.

x x x
 
Hello, thought I''d just contribute a lil summin..I know this may not be "the most" practical idea, but have you considered buying your brown diamond (otherwise known as champagne or cognac diamonds) from Australia? I live in oz, and they are quite popular here set in premium jewellery . I have attached a few pics for you to check out - these aren''t necessarily "the best" around, but just the first store that came to mind.

As I believe these are mined locally, and with the strength of the US $ over the Aud$, you could end up with a better deal,
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, whether you choose to buy the diamond loose and have a PS vendor set it, or just buy the whole ring.

If you would like help in finding more info on Australian jewellers with decent websites etc, just say so - i would be very happy to assist.
Hope you like the pics I chose - I have Always thought these colour diamonds are gorgeous, especially wen set with smaller white diamonds and yellow gold.
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I apologize in advance, as I still haven''t figured how to post multi pics in one post - so I''m just gonna have to flood the thread for a sec! *Sorry*

thm_010231(1).jpg
 
pic 2

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pic 3

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