Verragio won’t disclose wholesale price… Need help!

[Sca_24]

All,

I need someone who can check with Verragio for the wholesale price for this ring (ENG-0152). I tried to get it myself and they would not help me. They said I must go through on of their retailers. The ring size is 5 ½. Verragio’s number is (800)837-7244 and their website is www.verragio.com . Thanks for your help.

Shannon

 

[Sca_24]

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[Sca_24]

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[ccuheartnurse]

Nice setting. I was considering the 083 which is the version with the round stones. I dont think you're going to find this ring at a wholesale price. If you do, great, but the designers tend to set their pricing pretty much the same across the board whereever you go. I dont have any advice to you sorry.

Judy

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Wow. Nice ring.

Let the retailer make his profit. That's how the wheel of life keeps turning.

 

[niceice]

Nobody is going to give you a wholesale price on a designer setting or anything else for that matter... If you want to buy the ring wholesale, you're going to have to buy a Verragio dealership and they're not going to say "boo" to you without a strong JBT rating backed up by a whole lot of cash... None of the designers will talk to you... Your one ring sale isn't worth their losing hundreds of thousands of ring sales to authorized retailers who represent their lines. Get a grip! If you want "that ring" you're going to have to pay the price - and we're not a Verragio dealer - we just know the scenario. There are some things that you're just going to have to pay a profit for... The public is getting way out of hand the way they shop for price, they think that everything should be free, they should be able to pay wholesale for everything without investing anything into a business the way that the retailers who support the wholesalers have done... The other day we had a guy insisting that he could buy one of our diamonds for $800.00 less than we paid for it... Well we find that hard to believe since we buy millions and millions of dollars worth of diamonds per year which entitles us to volume discounts that most retailers can't even dream of in their "memo everything world" of sub-wholesale... So we told him to go for it and you know what? He bought the diamond from us a few days later after realizing that his understanding of the market was inaccurate. All businesses are entitled to a fair profit, it is up to the public to determine what degree of fair they are willing to pay for, but when it comes to designer mountings there really isn't any room for negotation, the prices are set by the designers and discounting is prohibited. Those dealers who are unfortunate to be caught discounting may find it difficult to replenish their inventory and even more difficult to obtain new lines to represent... It simply isn't worth the risk...

 

[Giangi]

I don't know about wholesale price, but I must say that this is a BEAUTIFUL ring

!!!

 

[ccuheartnurse]

As a consumer, I want the best price I can find. I think it pays to shop smart & to look for *fair* pricing. I dont agree with the "premiums" the designers charge for their name. Yet, I ended up with a Scott Kay ring. Why? Becaue I found it at a *fair* price. I searched quite a few vendors in the U.S & found it at $2190. I looked in my own backyard & with taxes in was equal to $1650 U.S. I found it at a *fair* price but if I couldnt, the ring would have been made custom. I have to admit, it was less of a hassle to have it ordered as is. I have only made reference to my ring being from Scott Kay to a couple of co-workers that also had worked in the U.S & know who SK is. Otherwise, not too many Canadians know who he is. Suffice it to say, I didnt buy my ring cause it was a "Scott Kay" but simply because I loved the design & the price was acceptable. I did have an opportunity to see the work produced by the man who set my stone & he will be the one I will go back to get my band made (I dont like the matching band from SK). He does some wonderful work.
I'm getting off my soap box & into bed where I should be. I'm sick as a dog & should not be stirring any pots today. Please excuse my post if it comes across with a not so friendly tone. Happy shopping all.

Judy

 

[DiehardSearcher]

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The public is getting way out of hand the way they shop for price, they think that everything should be free, they should be able to pay wholesale for everything without investing anything into a business the way that the retailers who support the wholesalers have done..."
----------------

Markets are changing. The information age is changing them. The role of a retailer is becoming less and less needed. I do not discourage anyone from making a profit on the services they provide, I just believe it is becoming obvious that some services are no longer needed.

I do believe that I should be able to pay wholesale (or less!) for everything, because if I cannot buy directly from the wholesaler (or better yet the manufacturer!) then that particular industry is behind the times. I agree that this is not widespread yet, but don't you agree it is coming?

I do not know who the manufacturers are in regards to diamonds, but how easy would it be for them to link up their entire inventory to Leonid's price service without the retailer's markups?

Information wants to be free, and consumers access to it is cutting out the middlemen.

I love the retailers who visit these boards, and make no accusations against the service they provide, but believe I have every right to ask for my product at wholesale price.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 2/21/2003 NiceIce wrote:

The public is getting way out of hand the way they shop for price, they think that everything should be free, they should be able to pay wholesale for everything without investing anything into a business the way that the retailers who support the wholesalers have done..."

Robin & Todd: I very much respect the way you folks do business, and your insights have been excellent contributions to this board. I have to respectfully disagree on this one, though.

It's not "way out of hand" for the public to shop for the best price they can get....in fact, that's what drives almost every initial visit to this site! I'd wager that more than 70% of first-time posters are asking "is this a good deal?" People want to know that they are getting a fair price for what they are buying. I think it's an unreasonable stretch on your part to translate that into "people think everything should be free".

People aren't getting out of hand....they are getting more educated and more savvy, which is their responsibility as consumers.

Let me add that this desire to price shop has benefitted you and other retailers who've adapted their format to be conducive to online selling. Those price shoppers have, I'm sure, translated into additional business for you and for many of the vendors here...shoppers who would not even be aware of your existence if they hadn't been looking for information to help them make a wise purchase. Chastising those same savvy consumers who are contributing to your coffers seems a little like biting the hand that feeds you.

As far as "they want to pay wholesale for everything without investing into a business the way retailers have done"....pardon my bluntness, but it's not my obligation as a consumer to "invest" in a business. As a retailer, you are not "investing" in a business for altruistic reasons.....you are doing it for profit, and that is fine....that's what being in business is all about and I applaud businesses who succeed. Suppose you are in the market presently for a new comforter and you know that your local department store is having a 50% off sale this weekend....are you telling me that you will go and buy it today, that you will pay double the price it will cost on Saturday, because you want to "invest" in your local department store? I highly doubt that.

As I consumer, it is up to me to determine what I think is a fair price for a product and for the intangibles (customer service, etc.) that are part of the purchase. Many times, it is worth paying a little more for something when the service behind that product is exceptional, and smart consumers recognize that, too.

In my opinion, a customer does have the right to ask for his products at wholesale price, just as wholesalers, retailers and vendors have a right to say "I'm sorry, I cannot accommodate that price....my best price is X" or "no, I will not disclose information about the wholesale price of my designer wares". The customer asking, as Sca24 did here, is part of the learning process....he is finding that his expectations are perhaps not realistic, and he wouldn't know that if he didn't ask the question.


On 2/21/2003 12:27

5 PM DiehardSearcher wrote:

Information wants to be free.....

Diehard, with all due respect, this phrase is way overused and it's bunk. Information does not "want to be free"....it doesn't *want* anything. Other than that one, you make some excellent points, and I concur with your assertion that it is the right of any consumer to request the price he is willing to pay (providing he is willing to accept it if the answer is no.)

 

[StevL]

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I do not know who the manufacturers are in regards to diamonds, but how easy would it be for them to link up their entire inventory to Leonid's price service without the retailer's markups?
----------------------

Your thinking is very flawed. Everyone needs retailers and it is becoming more important because of the lack of service.

Most true manufactures will never sell one or two diamonds to the public. You ask why?

Why would they is a much better question.

I'm willing to buy at one sitting forty 1-carat diamonds. I know that it must be paid for before hand and I'm ready to pay, I also know what I'm looking at. I don't need answers like; is this a H&A, what does faint blue mean or the most basic question, is this a good buy.

I Ask No Questions.

I need no cut info, color or clarity info (I know what I'm buying or looking at). I do not require 10 phone calls and 15 emails, I don't need digital photos, sending it to an appraiser, etc. and I'm not buying one diamond I'm buying forty!

The whole deal can take less than 45 minutes to complete, and then we are on to 3/4 carats, then on to other sizes. I could buy over a hundred diamonds in a half day. The manufacturer can see two dealers or more a day buying hundreds of carats. They don't need to spend 2 full days to sell one diamond.

Why in the world would a true manufacturer want to sell a single diamond to a consumer at the same price they are selling to me (or other resellers/retailers)? Maybe for a larger profit but then your back to the retail price.

I can tell you that every manufacturer I talk with is Very Happy they do not deal with the public and have to put up with what the retailers do.

Dealing with consumers is very demanding, time consuming, and in some cases very frustrating.

Then we get to the service end. Who will size your ring, update the appraisal, help with insurance claims, reset or tighten your loose stone, show you a selection, answer all the questions, allow you to drop several diamonds into that Verragio mounting for you to see the actual look of each diamond in that ring? The list can go on and on including but not limited to who employees the most people (manufactures or retailers)?

Consumers need retailers and manufactures need them too.

Ever try to buy a single Pentium chip from Intel? How about a single automobile from Ford?

 

[DiehardSearcher]

Thanks you for your commentary on the statement.

It is a statement that is intended to relay the thought that life becomes more stable as information becomes available, and less stable as it is hidden. I'm sorry if you do not appreciate relaying ideas allegorically, it is quite common practice.

SteveL: I do not dispute the service you provide to your customers. I am sure based on the information I've seen here for the past year that you provide wonderful service. I would say that this industry is behind the times then. Retailers will be shifting from a product supply business to a product service business. This is taking place in all industries, not just diamonds.

As I reread my post, I wanted to make clear that I think the service the retailers I've seen and interacted with here are wonderful. I certainly would not expect that in today's market I can buy a diamond, chip, or car from the wholesaler or mfg'er.

In my opinion, as society becomes more confortable with new business models retailers will diminish. Why you ask? Because the conusmer can yield the same product at a lower cost, and the manufacturer can yield a higher profit. I have no more explanation than that. There will always be a need for the services you described, but these are just services, not products.

I wish you well in your business SteveL. I know you are an honest, hard-working, client-focused retailer, and we consumers thank you for that.

 

[shurikt]

I'll start with this admission: I'm a consumer, not a wholesaler or retailer...

I think the assertion that industries that continue to use the wholesale/retail structure are behind the times is totally wrong. Manufactured goods must go through a retail channel or they'll never get sold.

Here's my example. Say you want to buy cat litter. You can go to the pet store or the supermarket to get it, right? But why do that when you can get it cheaper directly from the clay mine? Oh, you don't know where the clay mine is? That's too bad. It must be the clay mine operators responsibility then to advertise, set up a distribution system, package the litter into 10 & 20 pound bags, have a toll free phone number, etc.

Unfortunately, that's not the expertise of the clay mine operators. They're good at mining clay, not selling cat litter...and that's the simplest industry in the world. For something as complex as jewelry, you have miners, designers, manufacturers and retailers. Each has their own expertise, and should stick to that expertise.

Should savvy consumers be able to get everything at the cheapest possible price? Sure! That's how competition works, and nobody can honestly say they don't believe that. Heck, even Robin/Bob doesn't pay full MSRP for everything. But wanting to cut out the retailer (or the retailer's markup) is never going to happen. You're going to pay that markup whether or not there is a retailer involved. If there is no retailer, that means the manufacturer is also the retailer, and has built these costs into the wholesale price.

Holy cow, I'm turning into Tim, aren't I?

 

[DiehardSearcher]

This will be my last post on this matter as it pertains to economics and not diamonds. I thoroughly enjoy the discussion though.

I am not debating that we should buy our diamonds directly fomr the miner. I am absolutely debating that the wholesaler becomes the retailer. Why do you believe it is so much easier on you and the manufacturer to buy/sell your kitty litter at the supermarket?

There certainly has to be a line of distribution, and that 'service' is funded by wholesalers/retailers, but rarely provided by them.

There certainly has to be some level of sales effort. That 'service' is a primary function of a retailer, but is no longer a necessity.

Easy access to information is one advance that is allowing us to grow our market system into a service based one. It is a matter of economics. Given a choice, I am no longer willing to pay for the retailer's services in order to get the product if I can pay for the product alone at a cheaper price, and selectively pay for the services I require.

Fun topic, but believe me, I am glad there are diamond retailers here helping me select that perfect stone!

 

[StevL]

The best part is it remained a civil conversation.

Great points to consider and I will.

 

[niceice]

There are tiers within the diamond and jewelry industry for a reason... Manufacturers are often good at producing a product, but not always good at marketing that product especially on a direct level to the public. Most of the diamond dealers who we know are great people, but they lack the patience to work directly with the public. Why should the diamond dealers spend 45 minutes on the telephone holding a client's hand to help them purchase one diamond when that dealer can spend half that time on the telephone with us and sell thirty? Why should Verragio or any other jewelry manufacturer risk their strong position in the designer jewelry market to sell one ring or even thirty a day direct to the public, when they can sell hundreds a day to the trade in the form of exclusive territories? The person who started this thread expressed a desire to buy a ring direct from Verragio for "wholesale" and then was surprised when they wouldn't talk to him... One ring, maybe $3-4K on the outside - buying "into" a designer line with an exclusive territory? About $50K to start with and that's not touching the yearly contract agreement... Do the math, who would you do business with?

Sure, the public has a right to shop for the best price that they can get. We ourselves shop for the best price that we can get on the major purchases that we make, however we do not attempt to bypass the retailers who brought the product to us in the first place and try to buy direct from the manufacturer. You may notice that major manufacturers of electronic products like Sony, IBM, HP, etc. sell their products direct to the public via their web sites, but they do so at prices higher than you can find the products for from the retailers who support their business... The retailers who built their businesses in the first place via face-to-face marketing of the products to the public. Over the years, we've helped to build up a few product lines for companies that later decided to cut out the retail front line that built the demand for their products and more often than not, we've watched the company fade into oblivion or be reduced in quality to the point that it is no longer desireable to the people who would have purchased it before.

The public needs to be recognize that some things are worth paying a little more for... Like the service provided by a diamond dealer / retailer who evaluates the diamonds being offered to weed out the ones that don't perform... The ones with inclusion types that are undesireable... The inclusions that present a durability risk to the stone... The diamonds that don't match the characteristics described on the lab report that accompanies the diamond... The diamonds that were sent out in the wrong parcel papers... The wrong sizes... Who do you think will have more pull with a manufacturer when there is a problem - the single person who bought one ring - or the jeweler who buys 100 rings a year from that manufacturer?

One of the things we have witnessed over the past few years in our industry is the development of price wars between the on-line diamond dealers and it is a sad development. Since so many of the dealers rely on virtual inventories to sell diamonds to the public, they are all fighting over the same stones in hopes of selling "it" to a single client. Instead of making a decent profit - a fair profit - so many of them are discounting the stones to ridiculous profits... This is occuring right here on PriceScope... Conduct a search for a 1.00 - 1.05 carat, F color, VS-2 clarity ideal cut diamond graded by the AGS - several will appear, but why is the same diamond listed by eight to ten different dealers? Do they all have the same diamond? Have they all seen the same diamond? No - most of them will never touch the diamond offered for sale - if they are able to get a "nibble" on it from the public and secure a sale, they will have the diamond drop shipped direct from their supplier... Happy to make $50.00 profit on a seven thousand dollar sale. An excellent "deal" for the public - or is it? What happens when these on-line dealers drive diamond prices too low by battling over a few dollars profit? Two things... Diamond prices may become unstable... And then the public may lose money on their diamond purchases and they may lose confidence in the diamond market itself... But more likely, DeBeers will step in and prohibit the diamond cutters themselves from selling to on-line dealers at all. Think we're crazy? Dealers - put your ears to the wall and listen to what you hear... The diamond dealers have already begun to indicate that DeBeers is pressuring them to cut you off... It's because some of you put $8.00 profits on one carat, F, VVS, ideal cut diamonds... The public wants "wholesale" well, there it is... But will you be here in five years to service that client when they want to upgrade it? And if not, what diamond dealer / retailer is going to give them even half what they paid for it in trade towards another gem? Most of the retailers who we know only give a fair trade-in value for diamonds that they initially sold towards another diamond that they are going to sell... Correct us if we're wrong, but sometimes there are benefits to paying a little profit... And making a little profit - it enables us to remain in business and continue to service our clients... We've been in the jewelry business since 1979 and people have always tried to get the best price that they can, we can respect that, but we're still going to point out the obvious when it needs to be said and the obvious thing here is that the "wholesale" this gentleman is hoping for is not available to the public.

 

[Sca_24]

All,

Thanks for everyone’s feedback. I did not know it was going to stir this large of a debate. All am really interested in is getting a fair price for this setting. I work hard for my money and would like to get something nice for my girlfriend. It is very natural that I would try to get the best deal.

With the lack of regulation in this industry there will never be stability. There are two ways to make a profit; the first is to have a high profit margin and second a high inventory turnover. Robin & Todd, you chose to sell diamonds on-line and in doing so you also chose to enter a price competitive market. I know that with the high turnover and low overhead cost you make more that enough profit. I will continue to shop around until I find the price I find to be fair. If I do not find it here I will go elsewhere. Once again thanks for the healthy debate.

Shannon

 

[niceice]

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Robin & Todd, you chose to sell diamonds on-line and in doing so you also chose to enter a price competitive market. I know that with the high turnover and low overhead cost you make more that enough profit

----------------

You guessed it... We make a little on the sale of a lot of diamonds... We know dealers who sell fewer diamonds per month who make just as much as we do, but we think it is more fun to make a lot of people really happy by enabling them to buy more diamond for their money. Forgive us, we didn't mean to turn your query into a political stand - the concept just got the better of us...

There are designs available in the market that are similar to the Verragio ring you selected that are priced more reasonably because they are not branded... We're actually kind of surprised that a few of the jewelers on the boards have not yet offered to make the ring custom for you... We see a few of them at the top of other threads at the moment that might be of assistance to you if you take a quick scan of today's posts

 

[trichrome]

NiceIce,


Being now a member of Rapnet and entering
the community by the sidedoor I can assure
you that I think that some jewellers or
diamond dealers are simply trying to
get more juice out of those poor consumers
that don't know at all what they're buying.
Tell me if it's normal for a jeweller to
sell a stone at Rapx2 when he bought it
40% off Rap? When you're in this type
of business, you have to be decent or at the
end, you'll loose your piece of the pie.

Trichrome.

 

[DancinGirl]

Hi there.

Just so you know, I actually looked at the same exact ring at Long's Jewelers here in MA. I don't have the actual price in front of me (cause my boyfriend has the card with the figures on it) - but I know it was about $3400 for just the setting. Again, as everyone has said, you are paying for the Designer name. And from what I have heard, they won't budge on the price of the setting. They told us they may be able to if we buy the diamond from them too - but I know how it works, they'll boost the price of the diamond just to make up for the "deal" they are giving on the setting. Not worth it to me. If I was a millionaire, I wouldn't care for sure - but since I am not, I'd rather find something I like and have a professional reputable jeweler make something similar and unique for me at a less pricey cost.

GOOD LUCK - it's a BEAUTFUL setting!
~DancinGirl

PS~ I have a ring I am selling, check my other post. It's a 6 stone channel set with a .80ct center AGS Ideal stone. It's beautiful!

 

[fishcca]

Did anyone find this informaition for me? I would also like to know the wholesale pries for Verragio E rings. And is there a complete catalog for their merchandise available?

 

[jlim]

Assuming you know the wholesale price of the ring, what do you plan to do with it? I don't think you are going to make the authorized vendor sell it to you at lower than recommended retail price set by the designer.

In the world of cars, the invoice price was long held secret. Even know when you know the invoice price, that's not the lowest price the dealership paid for the car. There are other incentives unknown to us that the manuf. might give to the dealership.

But as consumers, invoice price is the next best thing. But you are not going to convince the Saturn dealership, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus dealerships to sell for less than MSRP. That's how they operate and that's what their clientelle are willing to pay. In some cases, you are get a few hundred off MSRP. Very seldom you'll get away from paying MSRP.

When the new Altima came out, my gf. and I went to the dealership to check it out. The woman salesman (ok, saleswoman) told me that this car is going to be *hot* and better than Camry and Accord. They (dealership) will sell at MSRP when I asked her how much they want for it. I told her, I didn't know I was in a Saturn or BMW dealership. I don't think she got the joke.

I wonder why people make such a fuss about Tiffany prices. Someone got to pay for the fancy stores, lighting, advertising and not to mention the salary of their CEOs. It is all justifiable considering how long they have been around.

The next best thing to wholesale is Costco.

 

[oldminer]

I don't have access to the wholesale cost of Verragio rings either, but I can make sense out of this without even asking about it. Obviously, there is a large percentage of the full retail price reserved for their retail sellers. A $2000 ring will have an actual wholesale cost of $900 to $1300. It can't be a whole lot differnet than that range. You can adjust this for most any other retail asking price.

Here are your choices:

1. Shop for price. Maybe you can get a discount from someone.

2. If you can't find a discounter, you have some excellent photos. Maybe some jeweler will make you their version of the piece for a lower price. It surely could be less money, but we can't speak for the overall quality and it will not be a "designer" piece nor will it likely be identical.

3. Pay the full price and get the look and quality that Verragio stands for.

The information as to the wholesale cost is really no secret at all. Finding out who may discount an item is valid information. Asking may get someone to suggest a source for you. There is no harm in asking. Requesting a dealer to sell you at true wholesale, is very unlikely to happen, but agian, no harm in seeking that answer.

 

[jlim]

No no.. the next logical step would be to have your own diamond mine and you can then give us PS members free diamonds!

 

[diane5006]

Hi...well I understand your wanting to get the best price...and agree with Daves suggestions...and your best bet is to check around with different vendors, and see who gives you the best price...maybe someone will give the wholesale price...but you don't really need it...it can be helpful yes...but if you love that setting...

It is a lovely setting...

Best of luck in your search

 

[Maria D]

Thanks to whoever bumped this thread up; I missed it the first time around. I am going to use this thread in my Marketing class as a starting point for discussing that famous 4th "P" in Marketing 101 -- "Place" aka distribution. I usually use the history of DeBeers as a marketing case study and this will tie in nicely, especially since the students love to take "field trips" to the computer lab.

Thanks!

Maria

 

[oldminer]

Maria D

This is really a great marketing thread. One thing people should learn is it is not so much the content of a question (or the content of a product), but how one words the question (or how one "markets" the product). DeBeers is an extraordinary example of successful marketing in action.

These choice of words is probably more crucial to getting to the honest facts and answers, than the overall importance of some of the questions themselves. You can put people on the defensive by poor wording and make them resist your inquiry. If your words are well chosen, you may get the answer you need with no wasted effort.....The same with marketing where wording is near the top of importance in success.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 6/18/2003 6

6:10 PM Furthermore wrote:
The stones : 5 tonnes of earth is usually required (at best) to mine one carat of diamonds - 25 tonnes at worst, more - it`s uneconomic. That`s one scoop of the mechanical digger.

----------------

One little note for those not familiar with diamond mining: we're talking about a big digger here. BIG. BIG BIG BIG. If you've ever seen one of these things in person, well, they kind of dwarf everything around them--except the ore trucks, that is, which are just as impressive. Some are capable of hauling up to 250 tons of ore in one load. And in case you're wondering, they're not cheap. The shovels are around $5-7 million, the trucks somewhat less. Someone has to pay for those things.

Otherwise, nice post that should be the last word on the subject.

 

[mdx]

Ok a last post
Sca_4 You should have been around when my Dad had a retail jewelry Store in the 1960’s.
He would say to the clients “come in and buy, I sell at cost”
When his accountant said “how can you do such a thing” he would reply. “ don’t worry I buy below cost”

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange ltd