Verragio Warranty

[diamondseeker2006]

Mike,

I think an F VS2 would be very nice. When did you first email WF? Have they suggested diamonds to you before today? Did they email you with suggestions after you emailed to tell them you had bought a stone elsewhere or before? When I was looking for you, I did look there, too, but I was thinking we were trying to stay at $6000 or less. I''m sure we can find other options if you want to go up to $6500 or $7000. I just didn''t look at that price range in the beginning.

 

[MikeM]

diamondseeker2006,

I think I first e-mailed WF about 5 or 6 months ago (I can look it up to be certain). I''ve been exchanging e-mails with Bob from WF every so often ever since.

Bob did suggest 3 - 4 diamonds in an e-mail about 1 week ago (I think I posted it here -- I can re post it).

It''s ok. If both you and pebbles both think that, that 1.03 ct. G SI1 diamond is a good deal for $5800 (bank wire price) I''ll stick with that one.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Mike, honestly, if the two diamonds were the same price, then sure, you''d probably want the F VS2. But it is $700 more than the other stone, so it would only be worth considering if you want to raise your budget. And then I''d want to check GOG as well just to be sure of what they had in the higher price range. It seems like my recollection of the earlier WF stones was that they were higher priced than the G SI1. But I can look and check.

 

[MikeM]

diamondseeker2006,

Thanks for offering to check out the WF stones again for me; however, it seemed like you and pebbles thought that the G SI1 looked good, so it will probably look great to my untrained eyes.

I just wanted to put all of the cards on the table for you and pebbles to look at before I made my purchase.

 

[pebbles]

Mike, I don''t think that DS and I mean to come across as sounding harsh. As DS said, if you want to up the budget, that''s fine, but in that case you should start the search over to see what else is out there. I understand it is so easy to get carried away and spend more money, and I would say if there was absolutely nothing in your price range then it is OK to up it a bit, but there are a few out there that look great.

I personally would not consider the 0.998ct F, VS2 from WF until I saw an Ideal Scope image. I realize it''s an AGS-000 (like the 1.03ct from GOG) but I would still like more info anyway. You said you mentioned you first starting e-mailing WF about 6 months ago; did you give them your budget constraints? It sounds like you are at the very least intriguied by this stone; for the money personally I would get something else, but that''s just me....YOU are the one that has to be comfortable with it and it sounds like you aren''t.

FWIW, my cousin got engaged last summer. She didn''t want to be involved in the diamond process at all; she picked out her setting and told her fiance to pick out a diamond. When she got it she was stunned to hear he had gotten her a .84ct E, VS2. It is a beautiful stone, but he was way more into the specs than she was. She said she would never admit it to him b/c she doesn''t want to hurt his feelings, but she would have rather had something closer to 1ct and drop down in color and clarity.

If you are certain your girlfriend will love anything you get her, then go with the one you feel more comfortable going with...and it that means upping your budget and getting the WF stone, then that''s what you should do. I just think personally DS and I would stick with the GOG stone. (Even though I know DS likes higher clarity!

)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thank you, Pebbles. I hate that tone can be misunderstood when we write messages. I did not mean to sound harsh whatsoever. (I am a little irritated at the situation where Mike was offered stones AFTER he told them he had bought one elsewhere. That seems a little low to me, but whatever.)

Pebbles, you know me pretty well!

I do prefer higher clarity for myself. But knowing that the majority of people on this board prefer around SI1 (on excellent cut, H&A stones) due to the price advantage which allows for a larger stone, I try to go with what the majority would recommend unless the person requesting help has specified a color and clarity. I first looked for G VS2 for Mike due to the sidestones being G VS2. But those were above his budget of $6000, so I had to look at G SI1 or H VS2 (and that one F VS1 that was .91 or so). The best I could come up with was the G SI1 which gave him a full carat. if anyone looks back to the very first page, I think I originally listed 2 stones from WF and 2 from GOG, as I try to always give more than one vendor a chance, unless the person is already choosing between specific stones from a specific vendor. The WF G VS2 I originally recommended is already sold. I''m not sure I knew Mike''s budget at that point or not (no time to read all that now).

Mike, if for any reason you feel that your girlfriend would be happier with higher clarity, then we can go back and look at VS2''s for sure. I personally see little reason to go up to F, but the WF stone is a good price because it is just under 1 ct. Just tell us if you want to revise your price limit and Pebbles and I will look again.

We really want to see you get a beautiful stone to set in that beautiful setting!

 

[jetmal]

Hi Mike,

You know I''ve been following you along on this journey for the perfect stone....and I have kept quiet on this thread because I am not as experienced with RB''s ....my personal fav''s are princess cuts....so I do no thave anywhere near as much knowledge as Pebbles and DS....but I did want to jump in and give you my 2 cents here on the diamond size, clarity, issue....

I am like Pebbles....I have a hang up on size....if my friends or even a stranger were to ask me what size is that diamond? (and some people will....its amazing how nosey people are!) I would feel weird saying...."well, its ALMOST a carat....its .90, or whatever...". I would just want to say its 1 carat, or alittle over a carat....(without telling a white lie)...now , thats just me....so take this with a grain of salt.

I do have a G colored stone, and it is pure white...icy snowy white and I love it! My clarity is slighty higher at VS2....but again I have a princess cut, and you can see imperfections in a princess way easier than you could in a RB...so I think you will be just fine with the GOG stone. To my untrained RB eyes ( but I''m learning more every day!), it looks simply stunning.
I think your GF will be thrilled with it!!!!

let us know what you decide!

 

[pebbles]

DS -- It does seem like the SI1 clarity is the sweet spot!

I gather from Mike''s previous posts that he isn''t really comfortable with it, although he hasn''t come right out and said it. I had a VS1 clarity and never thought I would go that high but at the time the stone was in my budget. Now, I kind of have a hard time going back down!

I too try to give the vendors a fair shake, and I am assuming that the .998ct F on WF''s site is brand new b/c they only have the cert up at this time, so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt (I too didn''t like that all of a sudden they had a stone for Mike after he told them he bought one). Hopefully Mike will chime in and give us his thoughts.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks for chiming in, Jetmal! I am sure Mike appreciates any and all advice!

Pebbles, oh, I agree that the stone at WF is new. I would be upset, though, when I FINALLY choose a stone if I email the other vendors to tell them thanks, but they can stop looking, and they come back with diamond offers after I have paid for one. This is a difficult enough decision with lots of doubts as it is!

Clarity is so personal. I do want Mike to have what HE wants and not what I want. We can help him get a great H&A stone in a higher clarity if he wants to up the price a little.

 

[MikeM]

pebbles,

No, I don't think that you sounded too harsh. I'm having the same trouble -- conveying exactly what I mean.

I think that I do tend to get a little carried away. However, money not considered, I mainly wanted to buy something that would look good. If you, DS, and jetmal think it will look nice, that’s all I really want.

I agree with you about the 0.998ct F, VS2 from WF, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying it without knowing everything there is to know about it.

I did start e-mailing WF a while ago (I think that it wasn't too long after I joined PS). At first, though, I was just asking if they could custom make something very similar to a setting we saw at Zales Outlet. However, it wasn't until just a week or two ago that I started asking about diamond prices.

I'm sorry, I was a little intrigued when Bob said that it was "very special"; however, none of you seemed to agree with him. I value all of your opinions much more than I do his (after all, he is trying to make a sale).

Like your cousin, I think my fiancée, Michelle, probably does want the 1ct diamond, although it's been very hard for me to figure out what she really wants.

If you and DS like the G SI1 diamond from Good Old Gold, I think that both of us will love it.

diamondseeker2006,

Honestly, you didn't sound harsh at all. Although you have a right to be; my indecisiveness is probably starting to get a little frustrating.

However, tempting it may be, I should probably stay within (or at least close to) the price range I originally set for myself – I still have to buy the band for $2300 from Sisters (I’m going to check prices at the R&H jetmal recommended too).

If you, pebbles and jetmal think that the G SI1 from Good Old Gold will look nice in that setting, I really do believe that it will look good.

Jon at Good Old Gold said, “It happens to be a pretty darn clean Si1 as I loupe this (see below).”

Jetmal,

Thank you for coming along for the ride.

I was thinking about that whole, “it’s almost a carat,” thing. What if people do start asking her in the future, maybe she will wish that I had gotten her a 1 ct diamond, even if it doesn’t seem to matter too much to her now.

Thanks, I was kind of worried about it looking a little yellow. I’ve seen so few diamonds; I really don’t know how a G colored stone looks. All I know is that D is very white, and J is a little yellow, so G must be somewhere in between. I guess what matters the most is that it matches well with the G colored side stones.

I think I will get the G SI1 from Good Old Gold. All of you seem to like it; therefore, I’m sure we’ll like it too.

 

[MikeM]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:24:47 AM
Author: pebbles
DS -- It does seem like the SI1 clarity is the sweet spot!

I gather from Mike''s previous posts that he isn''t really comfortable with it, although he hasn''t come right out and said it. I had a VS1 clarity and never thought I would go that high but at the time the stone was in my budget. Now, I kind of have a hard time going back down!

I too try to give the vendors a fair shake, and I am assuming that the .998ct F on WF''s site is brand new b/c they only have the cert up at this time, so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt (I too didn''t like that all of a sudden they had a stone for Mike after he told them he bought one). Hopefully Mike will chime in and give us his thoughts.

I''m sorry, I think maybe all of you misunderstood me. I''ll be happy with whatever you, DS, and jetmal suggest.

I''m sorry I wasn''t here.

 

[MikeM]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:54:45 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Thanks for chiming in, Jetmal! I am sure Mike appreciates any and all advice!


Pebbles, oh, I agree that the stone at WF is new. I would be upset, though, when I FINALLY choose a stone if I email the other vendors to tell them thanks, but they can stop looking, and they come back with diamond offers after I have paid for one. This is a difficult enough decision with lots of doubts as it is!


Clarity is so personal. I do want Mike to have what HE wants and not what I want. We can help him get a great H&A stone in a higher clarity if he wants to up the price a little.

jetmal, I definitely appreciate your help. I''m sure that you know a lot more than I do.

It has been a difficult decision. I''m sorry for trying to get all of you to decide for me.

I probably should have looked at more diamonds before I began all of this. However, to be completely honest (I know this sounds bad) I don''t know if I could tell the difference between a cubic zirconium and a real diamond. I hope in the future, after buying this one, and several others, I''ll be able to tell the difference between a good and a bad diamond.

What I''m trying to say, I guess, is that I really shouldn''t have an opinion since it''s probably not a very good one.

 

[MikeM]

I should mention one more thing:

For the first part of next week, I''ll be in Utah (we''re all from Chicago) helping Michelle''s (my almost fiancee) brother move.

 

[MikeM]

I also, sent another e-mail to Jon at Good Old Gold asking him about the 1.03 ct. G SI1:

Hello,

This will be the last question, I promise.

I spoke to Tim on Saturday, and I asked him if the diamond was eye-clean when it was viewed from the side; I was rushing to the Pre Cana meeting, and I only caught part of what he said. When you saw it (the G SI1), do you remember seeing any inclusions when you looked at it from the side?

[Rhino@GoodOldGold] Nope. You’re safe. It happens to be a pretty darn clean Si1 as I loupe this.

I''m sorry for the trouble; I''m planing on mounting it in a Verragio setting (EU-8015), and the sides of the diamond are rather visible.

[Rhino@GoodOldGold] You shouldn’t have any probs then.

Also, do you think that it would look good with the two G VS stones mounted on either side?

[Rhino@GoodOldGold] Yep.

Thank you in advance.

Mike

[Rhino@GoodOldGold] My pleasure Mike.

Any other questions don’t hesitate to forward them.

Best regards,

Jonathan

 

[JulieN]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:01:06 PM
Author: MikeM
Any other questions don’t hesitate to forward them.

Best regards,

Jonathan

Well, Jon asked for it ... eye-clean on a cloudy day?

 

[MikeM]

I spoke to someone at Jewelers Mutual today, and as you said before, DS (I believe it was you who said it), they won’t insure loose stones. It also sounded like (I’m not completely certain about this) they wouldn’t insure it while it was shipped from place to place because the risk was so high. She said that most jewelers have very expensive insurance that covers shipping and setting the diamond, or the shipping company has insurance that will cover it.

The lady I spoke to at Jewelers Mutual also said that some people, who do what I’m doing (buying the stone and the setting separately), will have the setting and the diamond appraised and insured separately.

I also sent this e-mail to Sisters:

Hello,

Would it be ok if I asked Good Old Gold to send the diamond to this address?

SISTERS JEWELRY, INC.
333 WASHINGTON ST. Ste. 603
BOSTON, MA 02108

Thank you in advance.

Mike

-----------------------------------------------

Its absolutely fine. It will be in additional cost of $120 for setting

Diamond and sending back to you with high volume insurance.

Best regards Peter

 

[MikeM]

JulieN,

I'm sorry. I guess I am being a little bit of a pain in the *** to all of you, including Jon.

Honestly, I'm going to quit asking questions about the diamond and just buy it. I've bugged all of you enough.

If you don't mind, can I just ask a couple more questions about the insurance. I'm still a little confused about how all of that works.

Mike

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:08:53 PM
Author: MikeM
I spoke to someone at Jewelers Mutual today, and as you said before, DS (I believe it was you who said it), they won’t insure loose stones. It also sounded like (I’m not completely certain about this) they wouldn’t insure it while it was shipped from place to place because the risk was so high. She said that most jewelers have very expensive insurance that covers shipping and setting the diamond, or the shipping company has insurance that will cover it.


The lady I spoke to at Jewelers Mutual also said that some people, who do what I’m doing (buying the stone and the setting separately), will have the setting and the diamond appraised and insured separately.

Mike, I find that interesting b/c Wink started a thread recently that said JM will insure loose stones. you can read it here. maybe it''s new and not every agent knows, but I''d contact Sue and find out the details, especially if the verragio won''t take responsibily while setting it. As for shipping you''d have to go USPS and you can purchase insurance through them for the amount of the stone which will keep it covered while in transit.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Lol, Julie!

Mike, I''ll tell you the truth, I couldn''t possibly lose patience with you because I can''t decide on my own stone!

We are debating within the very top tier of diamonds. Any of the stones mentioned in this thread would be very wonderful to have. If you want to stick with a maximum of $6000, then I think you have a very good stone! At some point we all have to decide on a maximum, and as you said, you have an expensive setting and wedding ring to buy.

Do not worry about the G. That is a great color. I have an F now and am even looking at H for my anniversary ring. The side stones in the ring are G, so that is the obvious choice.

 

[MikeM]

mrssalvo,

Thank you for the link.

I''m pretty sure that Tim at Good Old Gold or DS also said that they wouldn''t insure loose stones. It must be a new thing.

The agent at Jewelers Mutual also said that I would have to get it appraised before I could insure it. Should I have Good Old Gold send the diamond to an appraiser before they send it to Sisters?

BTW, you don''t have to answer if this is already contained in the thread. I just wanted to catch you while you were still around.

Also, I''m sorry I never responded to your PM back in December. I kind of put everything on hold while I was studying for my comps, and when I came back I was no longer able to send PMs. However, thank you for the message.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My understanding was that Verragio would cover it while being set, right Mike? That way, you don''t need to worry about insurance until it comes. Ask Sister''s if they will give you an appraisal. If not, then I wonder if they''ll send it back to GoodOldGold to get a final appraisal once it is set. Otherwise, you''ll have to go to someone local to get an appraisal. What you do not want is a highly inflated appraisal which will cause you to pay a higher insurance premium. So you need to say that to whoever does your valuation for insurance purposes. (Oh, and it will be insured during shipping, no need to worry about that either.)

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:29:19 PM
Author: MikeM


I'm pretty sure that Tim at Good Old Gold or DS also said that they wouldn't insure loose stones. It must be a new thing.

after reading through the thread myself, there seems to be some confusion as to what JM will cover but Sue did chime in and say they would cover a loose stone while it was being set. definitely worth a call to her directly IMO


The agent at Jewelers Mutual also said that I would have to get it appraised before I could insure it. Should I have Good Old Gold send the diamond to an appraiser before they send it to Sisters?

check with JM but I would think the info GOG would provide is so detailed and goes above the norm that their documenation would be sufficent. If not, then yes, I'd have them send it to an indepentant appraiser, and the appraiser can send it on to sisters. sisters can send it back to the appraiser for an update with the setting. if you only need the completed ring info and can use GOG's info for coverage on your stone, then I'd wait and have it appraised after it's been set. this way you can verify that it's the same stone and get and complete package appraisal

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Mike,

Many of the vendors include an appraisal if you get the stone and ring from them. Then you don''t have to get another appraisal unless you just want to. I''m just not sure what happens when you get the stone and ring at two different places. If Sister''s won''t do it, then ask GOG if it can be sent back to them for the insurance appraisal. That hopefully would cost less than a completely new appraisal since you bought the stone there.

 

[MikeM]

Apparently it''s ok to eavesdrop:

Dear Mike,

I have watched with interest your thread on Pricescope. I stayed out of it on purpose mainly because it is frowned upon for a vendor to write about his own goods. I would have thought you would have come to me with some of your questions rather than some you seem to be listening to.

The ACA 0.998 is a brand new diamond. As one of the people said, I didn''t just find it. So new that we do not have all the information about it up on the site. I do know that it is an ACA diamond and that means that it is beautiful. I have not seen the diamond yet but I probably will in a couple of days. What is special about a 0.998 is the price. If it weighed 0.002ct more it would have a very different price. What you would be getting is a one carat diamond for a great price. Your two little friends on PS failed to mention that. The other thing special about it is that it is an A Cut Above. All ACA diamonds are special.

It was nice working with you.

Sincerely,
Bob Hoskins, GG
www.whiteflash.com

 

[pebbles]

Date: 6/7/2006 1:17:35 AM
Author: MikeM
Apparently it''s ok to eavesdrop:

Dear Mike,

I have watched with interest your thread on Pricescope. I stayed out of it on purpose mainly because it is frowned upon for a vendor to write about his own goods. I would have thought you would have come to me with some of your questions rather than some you seem to be listening to.

The ACA 0.998 is a brand new diamond. As one of the people said, I didn''t just find it. So new that we do not have all the information about it up on the site. I do know that it is an ACA diamond and that means that it is beautiful. I have not seen the diamond yet but I probably will in a couple of days. What is special about a 0.998 is the price. If it weighed 0.002ct more it would have a very different price. What you would be getting is a one carat diamond for a great price. Your two little friends on PS failed to mention that. The other thing special about it is that it is an A Cut Above. All ACA diamonds are special.

It was nice working with you.

Sincerely,
Bob Hoskins, GG
www.whiteflash.com

Allright, I am starting to get a little annoyed.

With all respect to Bob at WF, I am sure all their ACA diamonds are beautiful and "special". I have never seen one in person, but I was happy with my Expert Selection diamonds from them.

However, I must disagree with what he is saying....you are NOT getting a 1ct diamond for a great price (referring to the 0.998ct)....you are getting an ALMOST 1ct diamond, and I failed to mention that (I am assuming he is referring to me as one of the little "friends", a comment of which sounds a little sarcastic actually) because the diamond is not a full 1ct!

As I said a hundred other times, a 0.998ct is not a 1ct. Visually it may have the spread of a 1ct but for me personally, as is the case for a lot of other people, it is a mental thing to hit the magic 1ct mark. And yes, I realize once you hit that mark the price goes up dramatically.

And speaking of price, that diamond is $800 over Mike''s budget. So sure it can be a "great price" for that stone, but it is over budget. As DiamondSeeker2006 said (Oh, I guess she is the "other friend") if you want to increase your budget, Mike, then go ahead and start your search over.

Mike, if you think Michelle would be fine with the 0.998ct then call WF and get more info. That''s all I am going to say about it.

 

[mrssalvo]

ok, I'm bothered too. I respect Bob considerably and am surpised by his reponse. The first email about not expecting Mike to cancel his order but look what we've got didn't sit well with me but I'm with the 2 little friends who decided to give Wf the benefit of the doubt and didn't dwell on it. Now this? Peebles and Diamondseeker have been extremely helpful and unbias in helping mike find a stone. They both said the "special" one Bob offered is nice but 1)not a carat and 2) over budget. If he wanted to raise his budget, start over. But specifically calling them out as Mike's "little friends" was not very friendly

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thank you, mrssalvo. I have a list of ACA standards and I stick closely to that when recommending a diamond for someone else. For anyone to infer than GoodOldGold, Wink, etc. carry lower quality H&A stones would be totally out of line and false. All I can say is this thread has been very informative for me, personally, as I decide where I will buy my own stone.

Sincerely,

A little friend (who has NOTHING to gain by my recommendations, by the way)

 

[dimonbob]

I apologize for the ‘little friends’ comment.

This diamond is brand new. The customer asked me for it and I did my job. Someone said I was behaving improperly and that’s not true. Someone else keeps saying this diamond is not a carat. That is not true either: The Federal Trade Commission classifies this as 1ct. Most other labs list it as a ct but AGS reports to 3 decimal places. That’s why the price is good.

I’ve been working for 40 years in the trade, previously as a diamond grader and instructor with GIA. I enjoy helping people so I am now in sales. There is a reason I chose to work at Whiteflash. No brand I’ve seen in 40 years has the consistency of ACA and I have seen most. That does not mean others are ‘lower quality’ as someone says I meant (I did not). It means ACA are special, which is what I did say.

I apologize if my comment offended anyone. It is hard to watch meanings that get twisted and I was admittedly frustrated.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Bob,

Apology accepted. And I am very sorry if I inferred something you did not intend. I gave WF recommendations to Mike when we first started (I think I also gave him GOG and James Allen links). As a matter of fact, I listed ACA parameters for him. At some point (we were on more than one thread for awhile) we established that his budget for the setting and diamond were $8000, and the setting is almost $2000. So that left a maximum of $6000 to work with. I did state above that the price of your .99 F was a good price, but he needed to decide if he wanted to go above his previous budget limit. I also stated that my personal preference was for higher clarity but that I was trying to help Mike find a fine diamond within his budget, and to get a carat in a G, it was necessary to look at SI1. The .99 size issue would not bother me, personally. But only Mike could decide if he wanted to raise his budget by several hundred dollars.

I will say, if that F VS2 is not sold by now, there aren''t many people following this thread! That''s the disadvantage of posting links to great stones...sometimes lurkers grab them up. But like Pebbles, even though it is an ACA, I wouldn''t commit to it without seeing the IdealScope photos. And Mike is on a very short time frame since he is getting married in July, and two other vendors will be involved with the setting of the stone. I want Mike to be happy with whatever he decides, that''s all.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 6/6/2006 9:04:30 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 6/6/2006 9:01:06 PM
Author: MikeM
Any other questions don’t hesitate to forward them.

Best regards,

Jonathan

Well, Jon asked for it ... eye-clean on a cloudy day?

Even a sunny one.