Using the Ideal Scope at a B&M store...

[Excoriator]

I was just wondering what sort of social dynamics I can prepare myself for, when I pull out an Ideal Scope... Would most jewelers feel threatened?

Worse, would they think it was a contraption used to steal/switch their diamonds? Is it a bad idea to bring in the calibration CZ with it?

Has anyone had any bad/good experiences and have suggestions on how to use it without offending or scaring the salesperson?

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/11/2006 2:40:59 PM
Author:Excoriator
I was just wondering what sort of social dynamics I can prepare myself for, when I pull out an Ideal Scope... Would most jewelers feel threatened? if they stand behind what they sell, they shouldn''t

Worse, would they think it was a contraption used to steal/switch their diamonds? Is it a bad idea to bring in the calibration CZ with it? no. unnecessary, but if you want to, go ahead.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 5/11/2006 2:40:59 PM
Author:Excoriator
I was just wondering what sort of social dynamics I can prepare myself for, when I pull out an Ideal Scope... Would most jewelers feel threatened?

Worse, would they think it was a contraption used to steal/switch their diamonds? Is it a bad idea to bring in the calibration CZ with it?

Has anyone had any bad/good experiences and have suggestions on how to use it without offending or scaring the salesperson?

I suggest you speak to someone in charge. Wait until he/she is away from other customers and explain what you'd like to do. Be honest about what you are there for: You have purchased this scope that is supposed to show light return and would like to see a few diamonds in it to see if it tells you what your eyes tell you. It's within their right to ask questions. Be honest. They can say no, but in my experience if they are confident in their inventory they do not mind. I've made friends with several local jewelers by visiting stores to see 'what's out there' in the mainstream from time to time with my IS and H&A viewer.

It might be helpful for you to print out the ideal-scope reference chart and have it with you as an illustration. I would not suggest you bring the CZs into a store on a first trip. If you find a friendly manager who works with you the first time, mention that you have calibration/example CZs cut specifically for reference and ask if he would like to see them next time.

When using IS with a mounted diamond be sure you use strong backlighting and have minimal surface area blocking the light (like fingers holding the ring). Use tweezers if you have them - and be sure the diamond's pavilion is as clean as possible. Enjoy.

 

[Rhino]

Equally as important if not moreso ... Understand what the Ideal-Scope will not show you regarding diamond appearance. In just about every jewelry store you walk into you're going to be limited to viewing diamonds in spot lighting conditions. Diamonds take on a certain appearance in spot lighting that is sometimes radically different than a diffuse daylight appearance. Spot lighting generally empahsizes fire while diffuse daylight emphasizes brightness and it is possible to have a diamond that will have a great reflector image, appear just fine in the spot lighting environment, then bring it into daylighting environments and an unwanted darkness is then seen. I'm just saying there are certain limitations to reflectors you should be aware of that oftentimes can not be detected in both IS's and also in jewelry store lighting.

View with the IS, but if possible ask to view the comparison stones in a diffuse daylight source as well and let your eyes be the final judge.

Peace,

 

[Rhino]

Here''s an example. Both of the diamonds in this photograph have what many layman would consider equally good reflector images...

 

[Rhino]

Here are the same 2 diamonds photographed in a diffuse daylight environment. Note the increase in darkness in the stone on the left. Just emphasizing that while the IS is a great tool to use and weed out stones with, there are proportion combinations it fails to detect a decrease in brightness in. Hence my suggestion to view the diamonds in a diffuse daylight environment as well if possible.

Peace,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/11/2006 4:19:46 PM
Author: Rhino
Here are the same 2 diamonds photographed in a diffuse daylight environment. Note the increase in darkness in the stone on the left. Just emphasizing that while the IS is a great tool to use and weed out stones with, there are proportion combinations it fails to detect a decrease in brightness in. Hence my suggestion to view the diamonds in a diffuse daylight environment as well if possible.

Peace,

Looks more like the GIA Diamond Dock light source rhino - that is a light box sitting inside your office last i heard?

And we can see that one stone looks worse then the other in that photo?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/11/2006 2:40:59 PM
Author:Excoriator

Worse, would they think it was a contraption used to steal/switch their diamonds? Is it a bad idea to bring in the calibration CZ with it?

The CZ has less leakage than almost any diamond you are going to find.
And - as others have said Ex, it could look like an impending stone switching - the reference sheet would be far more useful

 

[Rhino]

Greetings mate,

Date: 5/11/2006 8:48:31 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Looks more like the GIA Diamond Dock light source rhino - that is a light box sitting inside your office last i heard?

Absolutely and a great environment in which one can easily determine the optical characteristic of brightness, fire or scintillation.

And we can see that one stone looks worse then the other in that photo?

I don''t think it''s too difficult to see there is more darkness in the stone on the left than the stone on the right.

Regards,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/11/2006 9:13:59 PM
Author: Rhino
Greetings mate,

Date: 5/11/2006 8:48:31 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Looks more like the GIA Diamond Dock light source rhino - that is a light box sitting inside your office last i heard?

Absolutely and a great environment in which one can easily determine the optical characteristic of brightness, fire or scintillation. it is wrong to call a photo taken in a light box one that was taken outside in the daylight

And we can see that one stone looks worse then the other in that photo?

I don''t think it''s too difficult to see there is more darkness in the stone on the left than the stone on the right.

There is a nice English word - bollicks
Regards,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For example - in real daylight the centers of the stones would be bright except for the part opposite the viewer.

 

[bookworm21]

So, going by the information that''s been posted here, if I were to walk into Cartier and looked at their stones, and IS would be pretty much useless since they''re mounted AND they use spot lighting? That was my plan when BF is finally ready to buy. He''s set on buying from Cartier because likes their designs, and I haven''t been able to talk him out of it. The store has no windows and is entirely lit by spot lighting. There are dark corners in the store, but that''s about it. I don''t think they''ll allow me to take the ring outside to look at it in daylight. So would an IS still work in this situation?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/11/2006 10:06:57 PM
Author: Cinderella
So, going by the information that''s been posted here, if I were to walk into Cartier and looked at their stones, and IS would be pretty much useless since they''re mounted AND they use spot lighting? That was my plan when BF is finally ready to buy. He''s set on buying from Cartier because likes their designs, and I haven''t been able to talk him out of it. The store has no windows and is entirely lit by spot lighting. There are dark corners in the store, but that''s about it. I don''t think they''ll allow me to take the ring outside to look at it in daylight. So would an IS still work in this situation?

You can read how to use ideal-scope with set stones on the website.
The ideal-light makes it a breze

 

[codex57]

Ideal light is awesome. I got it cuz I knew stores all had spot lighting.

I never had a problem. Nearly all stores had never seen it before. The better ones understood what it did generally. One referred to it as "a portable H&A viewer".

The really impressive stores let me view the stones under regular office flourescent lighting (like their back rooms) or in daylight. Away from those spot lights. Just had to ask.

 

[denverappraiser]

Stores do have a valid concern about their security and customers who bring in peculiar equipment. Always ask permission and allow the sales person to inspect the tool if they wish. Most stores will prefer you to use their tweezers for example. If they have an IS, and many of them do, by all means use theirs. Do the same with H&A viewers, ASET viewers and similar equipment that you want to use. If they don’t recognize it or they don’t understand what it is, be prepared to explain it to them. It’s likely they will be interested. Often it's helpful just to have them know you've got one because it identifies you as one of "those people", and you'll get passed on to the sales staff that's most familar with internet educated customers. This can speed up the process of getting to the right stone and the right deal.

Don’t take the CZ into the store.

Avoid buying major diamonds that are already mounted in the setting.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

The handheld ASET works better if your looking at mounted diamonds.
You dont need the backlighting which makes it a ton easier to use.

So far the B&Ms iv tried havent had a problem with me bringing in the IS and ASET.
Most have never heard of such a thing, some are interested and some arent but none have said leave right now over it.