US Lab Diamond Manufacturer Closing

[shelovesinclusions]

WD Lab Grown files for Chapter 7

This article showed up in my news feed, and I thought there might be interest here. I don't know if there are many lab diamond manufacturers in the US, but this one made CVD and held some early patents (I think).

I wonder if the firsts in lab diamonds, in any country, will be going out of business as prices continue to fall. I consider- maybe the costs of creation technology dropped significantly and some companies are left holding the debt of lab growing materials while the product price plummets?

Is it all about lowest price since this is a man made good? Are some labs making better quality mmd? Does anyone know what the quality of the WD Labs were? How does competition work in lab grown manufacturing? I can't help but think it's very similar to when there are multiple generic versions of the same drug, and consumers just take what is available to them? Is there much opportunity for discretion for those buying material to cut? Does source even matter?

 

[DejaWiz]

Is it all about lowest price since this is a man made good?

For many buyers with the state of the global economy and rampant inflation right now, yes.

Are some labs making better quality mmd?

Absolutely...lowest garbage to highest quality then everything in between.

Does anyone know what the quality of the WD Labs were?

Unknown to me.

How does competition work in lab grown manufacturing?

Right now, it's probably pretty cut-throat where the lowest production costs, lowest labor costs, and lowest distribution costs will be victorious.

I can't help but think it's very similar to when there are multiple generic versions of the same drug, and consumers just take what is available to them?

Exactly right...I think a majority of consumers are shopping price tags first and foregoing everything else (material quality, cut precision, and optical performance) second.

Is there much opportunity for discretion for those buying material to cut?

I'm sure there is still a lot of choices for cutters, but I also think many growers are also doing their own cutting to have ownership over the entire processes from growing to distribution/supply.

Does source even matter?

Likely only to the most discerning sellers and consumers. If the material quality, cut precision, and optics are all top-notch, then that's going to come with a price premium to both the seller/jeweler and, ultimately, the retail customer.

 

[0515vision]

I'm pretty sure @Garry H (Cut Nut) posted an article about some Indian company or even companies also closing. Some ppl who jumped into the lab game are now having to step back.

 

[Karl_K]

There will be many players in the LGD market going under.
Many of them jumped into LGD because they were going under because of the mined diamond market slump.
Energy costs are a huge expense so the growers with the highest power costs will fail first.

 

[Karl_K]

How does competition work in lab grown manufacturing?

This is a huge question.
Where a lot of big players and many smaller ones can produce D-E vvs rough with decent crystal.
A lot of cutters are capable of cutting that rough into reasonably well cut rounds.
So what is the basis for competition right now?
Price is whats left.
The efficient with low energy costs will have an advantage and the best chance of survival.

 

[ariel144]

Is there a way to find out where a LGD you are considering to know if the material came from a top notch grower?

Does high clarity vvs2, vs1 or higher have anything to do with the quality of the CVD material?

 

[Karl_K]

Is there a way to find out where a LGD you are considering to know if the material came from a top notch grower?

Does high clarity vvs2, vs1 or higher have anything to do with the quality of the CVD material?

Not on the consumer level, vendor may or may not be able to find out who grew the rough.


Vvs+ clarity does not guarantee good crystal.
The odds of it being good crystal may be higher however.
Iv seen cvd vs2 stones that were cleaner crystal than some vvs1 graded stones.On the other hand there are vs2 stones with total poo crystal.
Its complicated. I look at the crystal before looking at the type and other details on the report.

 

[Karl_K]

40% of the diamond companies in this India city have closed with another 20% expected to close:

40% of City's Diamond Factories Have Closed

 

[DejaWiz]

40% of the diamond companies in this India city have closed with another 20% expected to close:

40% of City's Diamond Factories Have Closed

Holy shiz

 

[ariel144]

Not on the consumer level, vendor may or may not be able to find out who grew the rough.


Vvs+ clarity does not guarantee good crystal.
The odds of it being good crystal may be higher however.
Iv seen cvd vs2 stones that were cleaner crystal than some vvs1 graded stones.On the other hand there are vs2 stones with total poo crystal.
Its complicated. I look at the crystal before looking at the type and other details on the report.

Karl, HOW do you "Look at the crystal?" from a picture or video on the web?

 

[Karl_K]

Karl, HOW do you "Look at the crystal?" from a picture or video on the web?

In the 360 videos where you can control the spin a lot of the time you can check the crystal for major defects.
I start face up then slightly rotate and stop each way.
About a 10 degree tilt often allows the best look.
Then full side view, then from the back.

 

[jeaniefish]

In the 360 videos where you can control the spin a lot of the time you can check the crystal for major defects.
I start face up then slightly rotate and stop each way.
About a 10 degree tilt often allows the best look.
Then full side view, then from the back.

Karl,
If someone were to purchase a top quality LGD from WhiteFlash, DistinctiveGem, or Brian Gavin, would “looking at the crystal” even be necessary? Yes, they are more expensive than many other retail sellers,. I’m assuming that‘s because they offer true ideal cut stones
( in all shapes) that have been cut from premium material. Most vendors either don’t have access to or won’t spend the money to invest in the best as rough for cutting. Not to mention the most important thing, cut quality. Right? Or could it be that you can actually find comparable LGD all over the internet , at much lower prices, if you know what you are doing. Which I don’t!

 

[Karl_K]

Karl,
If someone were to purchase a top quality LGD from WhiteFlash, DistinctiveGem, or Brian Gavin, would “looking at the crystal” even be necessary? Yes, they are more expensive than many other retail sellers,. I’m assuming that‘s because they offer true ideal cut stones
( in all shapes) that have been cut from premium material. Most vendors either don’t have access to or won’t spend the money to invest in the best as rough for cutting. Not to mention the most important thing, cut quality. Right? Or could it be that you can actually find comparable LGD all over the internet , at much lower prices, if you know what you are doing. Which I don’t!

I have to be very careful to stay in the rules.
Stocking vendors who have a history of supplying high quality stones, cuts down the chance of getting one with impactful crystal issues by a large amount.
The main thing they bring is peace of mind with everything they provide and their reputation.
Many will ask if your just paying for the name? Not in the cases under consideration.
There is a real value add.

Can you find well cut stones with good crystal cheaper, yes likely.
But there is more uncertainty involved.
With the help of the prosumers here it can be done in a reasonable manner.

So basically a great stocking dealer is an easy button, pick one and buy it.
Searching with the help of the prosumers here is also an easy button compared to going it alone but not as easy.

Learning as much as you can and doing it all yourself is harder but can be extremely fun for some people. Some people find it so much fun they stay and help others search. Some stay for 20 years and teach others to be better helpers.

What it boils down to is how much work one wants to put into it and your comfort level.

 

[lyra]

Hi. I'm back after a few years absence because I wanted to try a LGD. I was reading everything here and was getting anxious about my relatively small purchase, especially after Garry said prices were going to drop drastically. I weighed my options. I thought it better to go with a small budget on something that would depreciate. And now with labs closing I'm not sure what that means for the future. I didn't want to pay a premium for something that would be depreciating. But I felt like the time was right to jump in here.

I agonized for a couple of weeks. I looked within my very narrow parameters and just chose one. We'll see how that turns out. It should be fine, it's just a 1.16ct stone.

But I was worried about the future of LGD. This is likely my first and last purchase of any diamond to be truthful. I spent an amount I was comfortable losing based on the comparables. Didn't want to overpay (in my mind) but did want the best choice I could find for myself.

 

[DejaWiz]

Hi. I'm back after a few years absence because I wanted to try a LGD. I was reading everything here and was getting anxious about my relatively small purchase, especially after Garry said prices were going to drop drastically. I weighed my options. I thought it better to go with a small budget on something that would depreciate. And now with labs closing I'm not sure what that means for the future. I didn't want to pay a premium for something that would be depreciating. But I felt like the time was right to jump in here.

I agonized for a couple of weeks. I looked within my very narrow parameters and just chose one. We'll see how that turns out. It should be fine, it's just a 1.16ct stone.

But I was worried about the future of LGD. This is likely my first and last purchase of any diamond to be truthful. I spent an amount I was comfortable losing based on the comparables. Didn't want to overpay (in my mind) but did want the best choice I could find for myself.

Hello, lyra.
You make an excellent point: be comfortable with the amount to lose, because it applies to natural grown just as much as it does (especially) to lab grown.
Do you mind sharing details of your LGD?

 

[lyra]

I don't know how to link to the IGI report but this is the number LG579375051.

 

[DejaWiz]

I don't know how to link to the IGI report but this is the number LG579375051.

Looks really good - should be nice and fiery in direct lighting!

 

[jeaniefish]

I have to be very careful to stay in the rules.
Stocking vendors who have a history of supplying high quality stones, cuts down the chance of getting one with impactful crystal issues by a large amount.
The main thing they bring is peace of mind with everything they provide and their reputation.
Many will ask if your just paying for the name? Not in the cases under consideration.
There is a real value add.

Can you find well cut stones with good crystal cheaper, yes likely.
But there is more uncertainty involved.
With the help of the prosumers here it can be done in a reasonable manner.

So basically a great stocking dealer is an easy button, pick one and buy it.
Searching with the help of the prosumers here is also an easy button compared to going it alone but not as easy.

Learning as much as you can and doing it all yourself is harder but can be extremely fun for some people. Some people find it so much fun they stay and help others search. Some stay for 20 years and teach others to be better helpers.

What it boils down to is how much work one wants to put into it and your comfort level.

Karl,
I really appreciate your reply. Although I haven‘t posted often in my years as a member, I have learned so much from you and all the other PS members who always seem more than willing to share their expertise, and also in helping others to learn from their good and ( sometimes) bad experiences. I can personally testify that Jonathan and Brian Gavin are really great to work with… patient, knowledgeable and wonderful customer service. Although I haven't had the pleasure of buying from Whiteflash or DBL ,I‘m sure that I would feel just as confident in buying there also. I guess it comes down to how much one values peace of mind ( if looking for that one special stone ) and great customer service over the thrill of the hunt!

 

[ariel144]

In the 360 videos where you can control the spin a lot of the time you can check the crystal for major defects.
I start face up then slightly rotate and stop each way.
About a 10 degree tilt often allows the best look.
Then full side view, then from the back.

Karl, Thanks for your response; but can you be more specific:
1. what "signs" you are looking for in the crystal that one can see from a video?

2. And what effect do those "signs" have on the performance of the stone?

On the educational video Jon did on "internal graining" or striation in LGD's...mainly the CVD type, it is NEVER noted on any cert. IGI or GIA, etc. that he has seen. He does state that sometimes it can be seen in the photography, but ALL CVD's have internal graining and to see if that is affecting the optics of the stone, You have to have a specific camera lens to be able to see it. And when it is there and affecting the performance of the stone it only shows up in spot lighting and affects the fire aspect of the stone.

I assume you are referring to those "brush" looking marks that can be seen in a video on certain facets as the stone turns. Interesting that Jon never commented on those in his "Internal Graining" video, as to what they ARE!
So WHAT are they exactly if not "internal graining"???

Thanks for all your knowledge you share on PS!

 

[Karl_K]

No time to watch the video.
internal graining, striations, voids, and dense point clouds.
Looking from the side you can see if it extends multiple layers which can mean it is more of an issue.
Yes, all diamonds lab or mined have inclusions and growth lines and so forth with enough magnification.
If they are big enough to be apparent in the consumer facing videos then they can have potential eye visible impacts.
If they are only visible if you blast them at just the right angle with a high power light to see them under magnification, then any impact is not a real world issue.