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Dudley

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
5
Hello beautiful people.

I have decided to bite the bullet and buy online but I am so indecisive that I can not pull the trigger...until I can get some of your opinions!

The diamonds in question are as follows:

1.14 G IF IDEAL HCA 0.8 GIA Certificate




1.01 F VVS2 IDEAL HCA 1.5 GIA Certificate




The first one was recommended, mainly because of size. They are both around the $11.5k mark.

I desperately need reassurance! :confused:

Thanks in advance.

j7054180-image2.jpg

j7054180-image3.jpg

j7159223-image2.jpg

j7159223-image3.jpg
 
Is ideal optical symmetry very important you? I'm also curious about your choice of such high clarity. Is that also something that is very important you?
 
Yes I would say optical symmetry is important, at that price bracket anyway.

The reason I went for such high clarity because the price was around the same ball park from VS1 to IF. There was more drastic change in price only when I went bigger or better color. I didnt even expect it to be IF, that was just a bonus to me. I just want the best diamond for my budget. Why do you ask? Do you think I can get a similar performing diamond with lower clarity?
 
Are the stones being sold to you as hearts and arrows? I ask because, IMO they are not. They have nice symmetry, but not true, super ideal hearts and arrows symmetry. If that is super important to you then there are other stones that I would recommend to you. I asked about the clarity only because some people are afraid to go below a certain comfort level when purchasing online, and I just wanted to offer assurances that you could comfortable go to at least a VS2, an SI1 in my cases (at this ct weight) and still find an eye clean stone. But, it appears that you already know that. :)) I too, chose a VVS1 for a stone, not because I was looking for such high clarity, but because the stone I wanted just happened to be a VSS1.

Have you viewed any of the ACA's from whiteflash, or the signature line from Brian Gavin diamonds? Both of these vendors offer true HA stones and they are fantastic!! :love: I forgot to mention Good Old Gold has a signature HA line as well and they are beautiful. I can find some examples for you if you'd like.
 
Ok it sort of worked. :)) At the bottom of the page it will list four stones in the diamond comparison list, those were the ones I wanted to show you.

Notice the differences in the hearts and arrow images between your stones and the stones offered by WF and BGD. The two stones you posted appear to have a more disorganized appearance under the table. One of the hearts is smaller in one of the hearts images as well. However, I think that have better optical symmetry than many stones being sold today as HA.
 
Here are some from Good Old Gold...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9958/
this one could be a really good value, depending on how you feel about the color and clarity. GOG has determined that it's eye clean.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10559/

another great value if you are ok with the color/clarity....again it's eye clean by GOG's definition. And look at the size of this one!! :love:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10670/

Jonathon will also do a side by side video comparison of any diamond you choose. :))


Crafted by Infinity is another Hearts and Arrows manufacturer that you should consider.

They are sold through HPD
http://highperformancediamonds.com/
 
OMG Christina you are a goddess! Thank you so much! :appl:

So much to take in! They are not marketing it as Hearts & Arrows, only as an Ideal cut, even though the GIA reports it as an excellent. I think they determine it by pavillion angles but dont quote me on that.

I definitely see the difference now that you have pointed it out. The centres look so disorganised, I thought it might have been because it wasnt photoed perfectly center. Surely no diamond at this grade would look like that? but after seeing the first ACA you linked I can see an almost perfect pattern all the way around. I cant see the BGD diamonds you chose but after playing with the sliders, I couldnt find anything decent around my price range unless I drop down to H which I dont really want to. The first GOG diamond is really good too!

I have been using Jogia Diamonds as I am in Australia and going on holiday soon (hence the diamond) and I can only claim the tax if I buy "locally" so thats an extra ~10% saving to take into account when choosing for me!

Does this look better?

https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2156702602&weight=1.05
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image.jpg
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image2.jpg
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image3.jpg
 
Ah! Ok I understand better now. Thank you for clarifying. :))

Here is the thing about optical symmetry...it's completely possible to have a beautiful diamond with ideal light performance without having HA optical symmetry. There are no labs (to my knowledge) that currently grade for optical symmetry. When the report grades symmetry, they are simply referring to physical symmetry or how the facet meet, if the stone is out of round, off center, has a wav girdle, and such. Optical and physical symmetry are very different things. Optical symmetry requires a great deal of skill from the cutter, they are cut to much tighter variances,the facets must all meet in such a way to form the cool hearts and arrows formations that we were just looking at in the images, and more of the diamonds rough is cut away.

There has been much debate regarding if optical symmetry actually improves the stones light performance. It's my opinion that when comparing a HA stone to an ideal stone w/o HA, that there is no visually noticeable impact on performance. Measureable improvement? Perhaps, but no noticeable, with my eyes I can easily discern the differences and articulate them. However, it can be a mind clean issue for many people. They know that there stone was cut to very strict standards and appreciate the (maybe) more organized light performance of a HA. Some don't and would never pay the premium for them. I'm in that camp, but YOU may not be.

With all that said, the images that you provided are HA images only and don't tell us anything about how the stones may perform. It's possible to have great HA formations and still have less than ideal LP. Do you know if this vendor can offer you idealscope images of the stone? Or actual real life images of the stone? Will you be able to view these stones in person?
 
I just took a look, I hadn't yet when I posted previously but I would be very interested in obtaining more information on this stone. It's proportions are in a very safe zone, there will be no issue with color or clarity and the HA images look very nice, for a non HA stone. :)) Before pulling out my credit card though, I would really like to see an idealscope image if it was possible. If it isn't then...I still think it's worth seeing for yourself. ;))

edit I just took a long at jogias website and it appears that they can do IS images for you. They say they can also do a 360 video of the stone for you, I'd like to see that too if you ask for it.
 
They can only give videos once they call it in. I'm not sure what their policy is of calling it in and if I change my mind.

The first diamond actually scored 0.8 HCA, doesnt this indicate impeccable light performance? Would you consider the HA images for it bad for the price I'm paying? Its these images that are actually the only things stopping me from pulling the trigger.
This is actually the image of the diamond:
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7054180-image.jpg

The most previous one I linked, you mentioned it has nicer HA images, is that what you would expect for a rock of this spec?
 
Hi Dudley,

Where and when are you heading overseas?

The reason i ask: based on my reading on PS forum: you can definitely get a 'better' diamond on price and quality from the USA. It may take a week or 2 to get into AUS, sometimes less depending on urgency. So, it depends on when you need the diamond.

Something to note: the US pricing including the 10% GST that you will have to pay when the diamond gets to AUS, may be better than what you can get from AUS. That is what i have seen ppl say on here. Just do the numbers. So, claiming the 10% GST back when buying from AUS may not be that great, if the diamond is not that great, if you know what i mean?

What i also read is that Gorgia is a great company to deal with. They usually have idealscope images for the diamonds they have in stock. note, i have not dealt with them, but i have read on PS that they source pretty good diamonds for AUS customers.

Good luck with the process. Enjoy what PS can bring you and i think Christina is of great help, and she has posted some great diamonds.
 
Dudley|1377059318|3507067 said:
They can only give videos once they call it in. I'm not sure what their policy is of calling it in and if I change my mind.

The first diamond actually scored 0.8 HCA, doesnt this indicate impeccable light performance? Would you consider the HA images for it bad for the price I'm paying? Its these images that are actually the only things stopping me from pulling the trigger.
This is actually the image of the diamond:
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7054180-image.jpg

The most previous one I linked, you mentioned it has nicer HA images, is that what you would expect for a rock of this spec?
Click to expand...

The above image looks to be showing some leakage under the table. Can you see where you can actually see the color of the background toward the bottom of the table between the arrow shafts?

I think that the HA images that you've posted have been good for all the stones you've linked, I was just initially concerned that you thought you were purchasing a true HA stone and wanted to be sure that you understood that they were not. The HA images became less important once I realized that they weren't being sold as HA. Any of these stones though are going to show arrows in the same lighting that a true HA stone would. In fact once you have the stone you will see that the arrows can only be seen in certain lighting and that they typically appear as a silvery color, not the black that we see in images. Some people are very surprised by this. I think that you should focus more on finding a stone that scores below two (you have) on the HCA and that has a good corresponding IS image. Once we've found those we can nit pick the HA image if you want. :))


I think this continues to be the stone I'm most interested in...
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2156702602&weight=1.05

I'm not sure what the vendor policy is for bringing the stones in, I think that I read for 10% down they will pull it and provide images for you. I assume the 10% is applied to your purchase if you decide to buy and if not it's applied to the assessment they provided, but you will have to double check with them when you contact them. But honestly, without the Idealscope images it's very very hard to predict how the stone will perform. Right now any information we can give you is restricted to assessing the HA (not the MOST important thing in my opinion and certainly not the most helpful) and steering you toward 'safer' proportions as listed on the grading reports. The proportions are THE most important thing to consider, this is what is going to drive light performance, and as I mentioned earlier, all of these stones will exhibit nice arrows even if they aren't true HA, so win win in my book. ;))
 
Dudley, do you have an image for the second diamond from your very first post? I think I'd like to take a look at that one again.
 
Dudley|1377059318|3507067 said:
They can only give videos once they call it in. I'm not sure what their policy is of calling it in and if I change my mind.

The first diamond actually scored 0.8 HCA, doesnt this indicate impeccable light performance? Would you consider the HA images for it bad for the price I'm paying? Its these images that are actually the only things stopping me from pulling the trigger.
This is actually the image of the diamond:
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7054180-image.jpg

The most previous one I linked, you mentioned it has nicer HA images, is that what you would expect for a rock of this spec?
Click to expand...

No, HCA is only a predictor of performance, it only takes four measurements of the entire stone into consideration and it make assumptions about the stone that may or may not be true. It's primary function is as a rejection tool, if a stone score under 2, it's worth further investigation (ideal scope, actual images etc.). It makes no promises of actual performance. A score of .8 doesn't indicate that it will be a better performer than a 1.7 either. I know that all of this can be confusing.

I think it's worth contacting Jorgia and asking what their specific policy is on bringing in a couple of stone for comparison for you. Ask if the 10% will be applied to your purchase (including the 10% for the second stone) if you decide to buy. You've already decided to purchase from them so having them apply the funds to the purchase won't cause you to lose anything.

I've emailed a friend and asked her to take a look at your images. I'm sure she is working so it may take some time to hear back, but she will have lots of helpful insight I'm sure. :))
 
Dudley|1377008562|3506532 said:
OMG Christina you are a goddess! Thank you so much! :appl:


I have been using Jogia Diamonds as I am in Australia and going on holiday soon (hence the diamond) and I can only claim the tax if I buy "locally" so thats an extra ~10% saving to take into account when choosing for me!
Click to expand...

Be aware that by law you have to state that you are bringing the diamond back in to customs when you come back into the country if it is above the GST free threshold which this will be. I know many people don't but just saying. If you import in from the USA you may get a cheaper price even with the GST addition.
 
Hi Dudley! :wavey: The friend I mentioned had a chance to review this thread and her thoughts were helpful! :)) She felt that the leakage I mentioned in your image (at the 5 and 7 o'clock position) would not be noticeable with the natural eye unless the stone was positioned at precisely the right angle and you were perhaps squinting to find it. :lol: I should mention that she is a PS veteran with many more years experience than I have and that I trust her completely! She also mentioned that she too would be very interested in the stone I encouraged you to gather more information on. I think her exact words were 'she would purchase the stone herself if she were in the market.' lol

Based on that, I would really recommend that you ask the vendors to bring in both of these stones and provide IS and do a side by side comparison for you. That will be the best way to judge them. As I said, we can nitpick from there if you'd like, but it will at least give you two very good options in which to choose. You've done a fantastic job narrowing them down, now it's time to move on one of them! ;)) I would also encourage you to get them on hold asap!!
 
Dudley, are you local to Perth or living elsewhere in Australia?
If you are based in WA especially, you may find the convenience of having a local 'international quality' diamond merchant well worth considering!

I have used Jogia several times for important-to-me diamond purchases, and in my view their integrity and professionalism is A1.
I also am extremely grateful to be spared to process of international bank transfers, customs, and international postage!

I like being able to view before I pay, and also it's much more convenient to have my jewellery adjusted and maintained etc, throughout the years to come. Yes, the US is a big market, but these guys really do know their stuff. :)
 
Thank you all for your responses, it is much MUCH appreciated.

I cant believe you can tell so many things from just an image. I thought, what happens if they didnt take the image properly?

I also didnt know diamonds needed to pulled off the market like that! So you mean it might not be there anymore???!!!

I didnt expect these diamonds to be HA because they definitely werent marketed that way. I spoke with Jogia and he is a very endearing and genuine man and I now have much respect for his work. I realized if there were a perfect HA diamond he wouldve already scooped it up for his Crossfire range. These diamonds didnt even meet his standards for Signature Series which was kind of a bummer for me. Am I asking too much for a HA 1c G VS1 for 12k? I didnt think it was because I found a few ACA that would be great, are they guaranteed perfect HA images?

Below is the image for the 2nd diamond from my first post, however I thought it had the worst Arrows pic of all. Was the the diamond you friend was talking about? Or was it this one

Christina... said:
I think this continues to be the stone I'm most interested in...
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2156702602&weight=1.05
Click to expand...

j7054180-image.jpg

j7159223-image.jpg
 
Dudley|1377008562|3506532 said:
OMG Christina you are a goddess! Thank you so much! :appl:

So much to take in! They are not marketing it as Hearts & Arrows, only as an Ideal cut, even though the GIA reports it as an excellent. I think they determine it by pavillion angles but dont quote me on that.

I definitely see the difference now that you have pointed it out. The centres look so disorganised, I thought it might have been because it wasnt photoed perfectly center. Surely no diamond at this grade would look like that? but after seeing the first ACA you linked I can see an almost perfect pattern all the way around. I cant see the BGD diamonds you chose but after playing with the sliders, I couldnt find anything decent around my price range unless I drop down to H which I dont really want to. The first GOG diamond is really good too!

I have been using Jogia Diamonds as I am in Australia and going on holiday soon (hence the diamond) and I can only claim the tax if I buy "locally" so thats an extra ~10% saving to take into account when choosing for me!

Does this look better?

https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2156702602&weight=1.05
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image.jpg
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image2.jpg
http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J7174399-image3.jpg
Click to expand...


The stone linked above is the stone that we would like to see ideal scope images of. The very first stone you linked in this thread looks (from the actual images only) as though the slight leakage in the photo won't be apparent with the naked eye. The second stone from your first post also doesn't appear to have any leakage under the table at all. I know that you think that it had the worst HA image but remember that isn't really telling us anything about the stones performance, how much light will be returned to your eye. I actually think that all three of these stones have really nice HA patterns for non HA stones. A single cleft heart can disqualify a stone from being a true HA. But I think that we are focusing too much on the HA images....which is easy to do sense it's the only information that we have right now, but let me assure you....all three of these stones have very good near hearts images. :))

I'm happy that you contacted Jogia and felt confident in the service they can offer you. But please don't get hung up on the fact that these stone didn't qualify for his crossfire or signature line. I've actually taken a look at a few of the stones that they offer in their HA line and I have to say that many of them would not have qualified as a ACA HA stone. I'm quite confident that the stone above that I've asked you to consider having pulled will have a corresponding IS image that can compete with the best of them. Of course we still need to see it to prove it, but I don't believe that there will be anything that makes this stone less appealing than the ones currently in his crossfire line.

If not have a 'signature' stone bothers you, have you considered this one?
http://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/diamonds/diamon
ditem.php?code=SS1712

You would need to determine if the stone is eye clean though. The above stone has proportions very similar to the one that I've recommended to you, so it gives you an idea of what that stone may look like..minus the inclusions, we don't need to worry about those in a VVS2. :cheeky:

Anyway, I guess I'm saying don't worry about the stone not falling into someone else 'signature' line. Any of the stones we have discussed are going to perform better than 95% of diamonds being sold today, you aren't going to make a bad decision.

Are you interested in re-visiting the ACA line? I know you mentioned the possibility of complications with shipping and GST's and such. There are many AUS here that can help you figure all that out if you'd like to consider a US vendor. You could start another thread asking specific questions regarding overseas diamond purchases. I got the impression though that time was also a consideration? I know that WF has bent over backwards to accommodate some really tight time restrictions, but I'm not sure how that works with international shipping....if your interested though it would be worth sending an email to Vera to see if she felt that could do it for you. They are absolutely fabulous and I'm sure that you would find them very accommodating if you chose to go in that direction.

ETA Gosh Dudley, I'm really sorry about all the typos....I'm still on my first cup of coffee. :sick: I'm going to shoot my friend another email to see if she has time to personally respond to this thread...I think right now you are just looking for assurances. I'm sure that she will have some helpful guidance for you. :)

edit 2 this is a gorgeous ACA, I'm not sure if it's one I've already recommended but it's worth a second recommendation.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2684406.htm
 
Great information here, Christina...sorry to butt in the thread, but it helped me decide what to do also!! 8-) I went Whiteflash ACA, too....
 
Erion929|1377187657|3508051 said:
Great information here, Christina...sorry to butt in the thread, but it helped me decide what to do also!! 8-) I went Whiteflash ACA, too....
Click to expand...

Congratulations Erion929!! :appl: ACA's are beautiful stones and I think you will be really impressed! I'm glad you found the thread helpful and I can't wait to hear more about your diamond. You know the rule right? :Up_to_something: you must post lots and lots of photos once you propose so we can enjoy it with you. =)
 
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