Upgrade to OEC or H&A RB?

[LGK]

Well, the DH said that magic word: UPGRADE!!! He realized he had failed to gift me for Xmas and my birthday (which follows Xmas almost immediately) and tonight he actually suggested we pick me out a new sparklie!! OMG

Seriously I never thought this day would come, haha. He is not a jewelry giver in any way, shape, or form. (We''ve been together for 12 years this March, and it will be our 7th wedding anniversary.) And though I love my original Art Deco wedding set, it doesn''t fit anymore unfortunately. (It''s a lovely setting with about 0.25 tcw, and I used to wear a size 2.5 on my ring finger... not anymore though, that''s for sure.)

So, what to get? I''ve always been a huge fan of OECs, but lately I''ve totally fallen for the H&A look... the crisp arrows, yum! When I saw one in person I fully melted. Purely by what I *want* I would say an H&A stone would be it. Also, I really don''t mind super low color, like really any color as long as it isn''t brown is OK with me; as far as eye cleanliness goes, I''m going to say I''m probably a lot less picky than most here. Even if I can spot them with with a certain amount of squinting and hunting, I''m the sort that sees them as birthmarks if they don''t interfere with the sparkle, KWIM? If I feel like it is really unlikely the average person will see any inclusions when I''m wearing it, that''s what matters to me, not if I can find them while giving it the ol'' laser eyeball in the bathroom lights.

Honestly I''m not real sure what our budget is, but when I showed him a lovely 0.97 carat H&A ideal cut round brilliant for $2600, he looked a bit pained and said "Lets look for something that costs a LITTLE less." Then later he said that he actually hadn''t ruled it out and was really thinking I should get what made me happy (?!

Who is this man and where did he put my husband? Not that I''m complaining, but he just is *not* a romantic gifty type guy.)

OK. So here’s the deal on the 0.97 carat H&A stone. It is SI1, P color. (Yeah, that is actually P like platypus, not a typo!)
Depth-61.2%
Table- 56.4%
Girdle 1.3-3.7
Crown angle 34.4
Crown depth 14.9
Pavilion angle 40.7
Pavilion depth 42.9
Measurements 6.37-6.40x3.91
AGS cert, cut grade 0

Also, it has strong blue fluor, which I’ve always thought would be sooo cool to have in a stone. From the pics, the inclusions may be somewhat eye visible from the side, but eh, no big to me. (I can post the pics if it would be of any help.) Comes out to a 1 on the HCA and within the TIC range. I think that’s a good thing? The cut advisor is still somewhat mysterious to me

I''ve done some OEC browsing and found one in particular that really speaks to me:

0.97 carat
Color S-T
SI1
Measures 6.41*6.34*4.0.
Depth 62.6
table 61
girdle thin
Symmetry very good
Polish good
$1819.00.
EGL USA cert. Small culet, which I like. No fluor.

Interestingly, there isn’t much that catches my eye in the $2600 range for OECs, that I saw immediately anyway- like, I can’t get a 1.5 carat stone for that price or anything. So those are the two candidates that really spoke to me at the moment. Though I am leaning a bit towards the H&A, I sure wouldn’t hate the OEC either, and I’m not so set on the H&A that the price tag of the OEC doesn’t appeal, quite a bit.

I work with antiques, and antique jewelry, so that also indicates an OEC would be a good call. I’ll post the pic of the OEC

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for reading my rather rambly post. Hopefully both are available and can be held for me for a bit. Both are from reputable vendors but I won’t post where until I know for sure they’re on hold.

 

[LGK]

OK I lied. Pic of OEC didn''t attach. How about another try...

 

[Lorelei]

Oh goodness how to choose! These are both very different animals! The P has super numbers and is an AGS0 to boot, I think you need pics of both to be able to decide out of both these incredible rocks, could you add the pic of the P please!!!

 

[LitigatorChick]

Have you considered a coloured stone - that could really increase the size for your budget. For example, there are some lovely white sapphires on this site that 90% of the population would confuse for diamonds, but are a lot cheaper than diamonds.

In my opinion, colour in the neighbourhood of P looks better in an OEC or other similar cut, and not a RB - just my thoughts.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Date: 1/14/2008 8:53:55 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
Have you considered a coloured stone - that could really increase the size for your budget. For example, there are some lovely white sapphires on this site that 90% of the population would confuse for diamonds, but are a lot cheaper than diamonds.


In my opinion, colour in the neighbourhood of P looks better in an OEC or other similar cut, and not a RB - just my thoughts.

I had a thought of a sapphire with diamonds!

I also had a quick look at DBL because they often have colors in the U - Z range which can look fantastic if enhanced with yellow gold. I did not find much in the OEC or RB category - lots of other shapes, though.

Also, if you are interested in OEC's you might want to have a look at Fay Cullen. They have a ton of loose OEC's listed: Search Site

 

[neatfreak]

That OEC looks really off center...but that could just be be nitpicking. Then again I also prefer stones in the L-Z range in older cuts.

I personally would take my time and try to find an OEC with better symmetry OR go down in size a bit and get a higher color H&A. But that's just me!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/14/2008 9:22:37 AM
Author: neatfreak
That OEC looks really off center...but that could just be be nitpicking. Then again I also prefer stones in the L-Z range in older cuts.

I personally would take my time and try to find an OEC with better symmetry OR go down in size a bit and get a higher color H&A. But that's just me!

I think the stone is tilted or on an angle in the pic

Also that is a good suggestion DB and LC with the coloured stone, but it seems to me that LGK really wants a diamond, either a H&A or OEC.

 

[chrono]

That OEC looks to have an off center culet. It could be tilted but the more I look at it, the more unsure I am. The modern H&A and OEC are so different from each other. What a difficult choice.

 

[Lorelei]

I think the pic is tilted, could be wrong, but thats how it looks to me....LGK, could you possibly get another pic of this diamond as straight on as possible as that would settle the question?

 

[UCLABelle]

While I normally prefer OEC to RB, in this case, I would pick the RB. Not loving the OEC. Sorry

 

[Rhea]

I typically love the OECs but I just don''t really like that one, but the stone from Wink is one that I''ve had my eye on for a while now - it''s so pretty!!

 

[Ninama]

OMG! JMHO, OECs R TDF... KWIM?

For reals... I would choose the EOC. But I''m not in love with crispy H&As, so it would be an easy choice for me.

My very humble, amateur''s opinion... the OEC in the pic appears tilted.

 

[Rhea]

Here's a couple of photos of the H&A P diamond:

Okay, I can't attach it and I even named it something weird, oh well.

 

[Rhea]

Trying to attach the photo again

 

[Rhea]

Yay!! Now for the idealscope photo.

 

[kellyfish]

You may already know this, but www.oldworlddiamonds.com has online pics of many of their stones now. They have a ton of OECs.....

 

[LGK]

Thank you everyone for your help, ANY input is much appreciated, this decision isn't a quick one here for me.

Thanks Kelly, yes, the OEC is from that site. I've spent some quality time scouring it. When I saw the pic of the stone my eye interpreted it as tipped, the symmetry is listed as very good, so I'd be surprised if the culet is off center. There are a couple of others I liked on that site, but this one was the one that I thought looked nicest in the photo, the others looked less symmetrically cut, and some of the similar clarity grades had visible inclusions in the photos.

Thanks, Addy, for putting up the photos of it, that was sweet of you

Also, got some more info: Wink just got back to me and said the RB is perfectly eye clean from every angle (I sure wasn't expecting that!) The inclusions are numerous, tiny, invisible to the eye, and clear... he personally felt it was quite lovely in person, and the off-color leans towards the yellowish, not grey or brown (yay!) And he's holding it til Monday for me.

Dang, I cannot decide.

Also thanks for the suggestions of a colored stone, but they're not really my thing, though I have seen some beauties on this site, for sure.

I realize that off-color diamonds like this aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I do really *enjoy* them, and have seen plenty of them in person- I just like that ivory off white color a LOT. It isn't just a matter of "oh, I can only afford this" but of course the price drop is certainly nice But yeah, its also that I genuinely really like slight yellow in stones (but oddly not fancy yellow, it's too intense

).

After hearing Wink say that the RB is totally eye clean that stone is really yummy sounding to me. I wasn't expecting that!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Are you going to do an antique setting?
(I was guessing you might, since you work in antiques

)
If you''re going to do an antique, I''d go for a warmer OEC-sounds just lovely to me--over an H&A. I prefer OECs to contemporary rounds--there''s just something magical about them.
What''s your finger size? If you used to wear a 2.5, it sounds tiny! What about a smaller stone (OEC), and an antique halo or deco setting?

 

[LGK]

I'll upload a few more photos of the "P" here. This is the hearts view.

Coatimundi, I have a couple of settings to use already- one is antique filigree which I would use with an OEC. I also have one that is sorta antiquey, but is also a bit modern; when looking straight down it has the tiny thin band with melee thing (2mm) but it has an ornate gallery for a cool side view. I'd use that one with the RB. (Yeah, I already have these settings. I am a fan of well cut CZ and was going to set them with OEC cut CZs... just explaining why I have these laying around empty!) Currently I wear a size 5, which is usually loose on me- to the point that it flops about, but honestly it makes me a little claustrophobic if my rings are tighter, since my hands swell in heat. Sigh. When I gain weight, I gain it ALL OVER. And when I wore a 2.5 I weighed 95 lbs... yeah, not so much anymore! So again, I could go either way

Not much help, am I?

Wish it was possible to upload more than one photo at a time. I feel like a thread spammer adding a post for each photo! I can post my settings here, but that would be a LOT of posts!

 

[LGK]

Next one.

 

[LGK]

Last one.

 

[LGK]

I think I came to a conclusion. First, that I''m really an OEC girl at heart- I''ve adored them for so long, and I have pined over them at work so much, that as much as an H&A round seems like a novelty to me, I am gonna want an antique setting after all and an H&A wouldn''t be ideal like that. And, also I am a size whore. So when I finally found one in my budget and parameters and is actually noticeably larger, I couldn''t resist.

I found The One, I believe, and I it shall be ordered tomorrow. (Again, I''m still just boggling over this- I *never* thought I''d need diamond buying advice from you all for myself! When he told me to go ahead and get it tonight I started crying, this is so, so out of character for him and indeed his whole family and upbringing.)

A poster who had spent a VERY long time contemplating OECs for her ring pointed out that the table on the 1st OEC I was looking at was rather too large. Which is a good point, I want a firey stone. While I can "sacrifice" color endlessly, and I''m not that picky about inclusions, I want something that is perfectly sparkly and well cut.

So, when I found this baby it just begged me take it home. Hey, if it isn''t, I can return it with no penalty and go with Wink''s H&A stone with no regrets, right?

Yeah, it might not be eye clean. But I can live with some "birthmarks", you know? Especially in an antique cut. And I don''t see any in the pic, anyway.

1.41 carats
M color
SI3 clarity
Measurements: 7.06*6.99*4.5
Depth: 63.9
Table: 54%
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Girdle: Very Thin
Culet: Small
Price: $2650

It''s the size, I admit, that is swaying me particularly. That and the table being in the sweet spot of 47-55, according to aforementioned helpful poster. And did I mention the size?

I could have dealt with an even lower color and a bit higher clarity, but I definitely want to see it in person. I have a good feeling about it though!

 

[Lorelei]

I hope it turns out to be what you want! Do you know which branch of EGL graded it? I think I see the Kozibe effect with the culet reflecting

 

[chrono]

I am going ga-ga over the kozibe effect in that OEC where the culet is reflected back all over the stone. Do show the side view (for crown height but my guess is that it's all right) and a straight on view of the stone. You want to be sure the birthmarks of the SI3 is in a safe spot, doesn't break the surface etc.

 

[kellyfish]

I can''t wait to see it!!! I hope the inclusions are in a reasonable area & it is a unique and beautiful find!! The cutlet reflection is awesome.......

 

[coatimundi_org]

So glad you found an OEC stone that you like! It looks lovely from the photo--I too love that culet reflection! I like that you call them "birthmarks" and are comfortable with that. One of my side stones on my
3 stone ring has a tiny "birthmark." It just serves as a reminder that it''s a billion years old!
Can''t wait to see your finished ring!
Coati

 

[surfgirl]

You are aware that there is no such thing as "SI3", right? What you're buying would be an I1 at best probably. Just making sure you know what you're getting into. I'd get it appraised as soon as it arrives to see what it really is, grade-wise. Then decide if you love its performance. Good luck!

ETA: I bring up the SI3 because whenever I see that grading I think I'm getting a seller who's trying to pull the wool over my eyes, thinking buyers wont know that SI3 = I1...

 

[LGK]

Thanks for the heads-up surfgirl. Yep, I realize that, thanks Yeah, SI3 is one of those things EGL does I guess that make it less reliable than GIA or AGS. Like I said, I'm not THAT picky about clarity. I do have a great appraiser I know, who will be able to help me with anything I get- but I see a lot of antique jewelry every day at work, so I'll probably know as soon as I see it whether or not I want to keep. They have a good return policy at least, no "restocking fee". Unfortunately actually BUYING the stone is proving difficult. No reply to the 3 emails I've sent over 3 days, nobody there to answer questions via phone. Annoying. You'd think they didn't want my money

An interesting thing I noticed during this search is that the list Fay Cullen has of loose stones for sale is about 1/2 identical to the list on oldworlddiamonds.com, just always about $200 cheaper per stone and no pictures. (And cruddy return policy.) But they do actually answer my questions...

 

[LGK]

So I got an OEC as it turns out! Adam of Old World Diamonds called me back exactly when he said he would (twice!) and went over with me all the maybe 6 stones I''d written down. He easily picked out the one he felt was the nicest looking in person. (The M/SI3 1.41 one was sold unfortunately). The one I ended up with is N color, SI1, 6.81mm x 6.67 x 4.2mm, 62.4 depth with a large-ish table at 59%. Nevertheless, Adam felt it was the best choice even with the table size. (Interestingly, he said the first one I posted up there, the .97 carat, was a nice stone for what it was, but that it was a transitional cut that looks fairly modern, no chunky faceting.)

It came today, yay!, and it is sooo gorgeous. I considered trying to balance it on my finger all day at work, but eventually managed to get home away from all the fluorescent light and get a good look at her. When I took it into the Sparkle Observation Chamber, aka the bathroom, I couldn''t believe how beautiful it is. The fire is absolutely indescribable. I regularly wear a 6.5mm Old European Cut CZ (hopefully I can say this- after I finish I hope it will be clear I''m not promoting it!). I compared the CZ to the diamond and OHMYGOD. The sparkle of the diamond is so much different- it shoots these huge, intensely bright fire flashes. So bright, it is amazing- blinding, even. The CZ is firey but the fire is much dimmer, smaller, despite the OEC cut. I hauled the DH into the Sparkle Observation Chamber, and he spent almost as much time as I did fascinating over it. The diamond also performs so much better in low light. The DH was totally intrigued, tilting the stone this way and that- as a finale, he flipped it out of it''s holder to land *plop* onto the bathmat. ("Oh. It''s not glued in there? Ooops.") Yay for well placed bathmats!

It is totally eyeclean, from all angles, which is great. The inclusions are all right next to the girdle according to the inclusion plot on the cert (EGL-USA). I searched and searched, and there is one tiny feather I can find fairly quickly right by the edge; I like that, it will make it easy to pick mine out if I ever need to ID it. I can sometimes find some itty bitty other feathers near the girdle elsewhere but they appear and disappear at different angles.

So here''s the totally awesomely amazingly spiffy thing. I think, I am pretty, sure that the boy just said I should get a Van Craeynest setting! I have drooled over them endlessly. We own an antique mall, so he''s into old things too, and was fascinated to hear how they used antique tools and techniques and stuff. Then I showed him their website and he saw the first setting I pulled up and he said "THAT ONE." I''d been showing him endless different things in my ring eye candy folder over the last few days. But he definitely knows what he likes and the VC hit that spot I guess. I showed him two others I liked a bit more myself, and he loved those too.

Then, he said the same thing he said when I showed him the diamond I was looking at. "Do your research. Then get one."

Did I just hear that right? I did tell him they run in the thousands usually... I did just get spoiled with a huge gorgeous sparkly thing... don''t pinch me! I don''t want to wake up!

Even better a local jeweler, Alana, carries them. Monday, we''re gonna be all over that place!

I should say that working with Adam at Old World Diamonds was a treat. Very nice man, very honest about his opinions on the stones he sells- he told me several were not what I wanted, too shallow or had a brown tinge or whatever. He also called me back when he was supposed to, which is sooo rare, and everthing went very, very smoothly. I would not hesitate to work with him again. He doesn''t email back very quickly, is the only thing I found; I do believe it''s a one man operation, which would explain that, and the not-always-there-during-business-hours thing too. I would say if anyone wants a question answered or whatever, just call.

 

[BlueJeans]

Sparkle Observation Chamber! I love it, oh I haven''t laughed that hard in a while. I know exactly what you mean, I excuse myself from work all the time to go look at my sparklies!

I''m so happy you found your stone! Congrats!