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I am all for freedom of choice in health matters but...BIG BUT, when my son was immunosuppressed from chemo and couldn't be vaccinated, I totally steered him clear of kids whose parents were antivax. In fact they made me angry. It is called herd immunity for a reason.
Ok, potentially daft question / train of thought coming up...
... If kids and adults who have been immunised are therefore immune to a given infection, does it matter if others don't immunise? If non-immunisers are presumably knowingly placing themselves/their kids at greater potential risk and have deemed that risk as acceptable, and that group of individuals are all together in their views and the only ones at risk (because the immunised won't get infected), surely the risk only falls on the group that finds that risk acceptable, so why should we pressurise them into immunising if the only others at risk are those who accept that risk (rather than 'innocent parties')?
EDIT: Cross-posted with the posts above, which have answered my question!!
I have to put my two cents in since this is a subject I feel strongly about.
If they want to start fining those who choose (for religious or personal beliefs) not to vaccinate then they will need to repeal the law in the U.S. that grants immunity to vaccine manufacturers. Fair is fair, if the vaccines are as safe as they claim then they need to put their money where their mouth is.
I also fine the thread title offensive, people who choose not to vaccinate do not need to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is the accountability and the medical community needs to recognize that there are some people due to mitochondrial or gene mutation issues that are suceptible to injury from vaccines. As it stands right now there are no tests given to determine if there is an underlying problem PRIOR to vaccination and that is criminal. So they know that there are factors that can make vaccination an extremely risky medical procedure yet they don't take the proactive steps that could possibly save someone from having an adverse outcome.
For the record, I vaccinated my first son up to the MMR, my second son has only had a vitamin K shot. Think less of me if you want, slap a label on me as a parent, pass the legislation to fine me if you wish but you are wrong to put the blame on the parents. Fix the real problem which starts with the pharmaceutical companies, then get the laws protecting them out of the picture and while you're at it give the doctors in medical school an education that is unbiased and not paid for by the same companies making the vaccines.
Let's get the playing field leveled before we start the game.
Isn't there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that established a Special Master (i.e. Vaccine Court) to preside over vaccine injury claims? And it seems that one can file a civil suit against the manufacturers if the Vaccine Court denies the claims. Are you asking for more than that?
What "mitochondrial or gene mutation issues [make one] suceptible (sic) to injury from vaccines"? If these are known, aren't there sequencing / hybridization / etc services that one can get to determine if these mutations are present in a child -- similar to BRCA or snp tests? Seems to me a great business to get in on as all parents will want this done for their kid before they go through the vaccination series.
I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .
I am all for freedom of choice in health matters but...BIG BUT, when my son was immunosuppressed from chemo and couldn't be vaccinated, I totally steered him clear of kids whose parents were antivax. In fact they made me angry. It is called herd immunity for a reason.
There is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program which is funded by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine recommended to children and pregnant women. So this is paid out of the pockets of the public and not from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. There are specific requirements that must be met to have a claim considered and it can be notoriously difficult to file a claim since doctors do not always document an adverse reaction. In addition there is a window of three years to file a claim for an injury and two years for an injury resulting in death under the NVICP. I have read conflicting information about whether a civil suit can be filed against a vaccine manufacturer.
Hannah Poling is the most well known case I know of that demonstrates the need to identify suceptible individuals prior to vaccination. The following article talks about her case and in it this excerpt:
"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."
The full article if anyone wants to read it:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/
So even after this case they still aren't testing before vaccination, why? When I vaccinated my first son I had no idea to question if my son shouldn't be receiving some or all of the recommended vaccines because of any underlying issues. This needs to be done in the hospital as a routine procedure, no different than giving the Hep B and vitamin K shots. The parents need to be sat down and presented the information before a vaccine is even mentioned. They say in the article it was an unknown mitochondrial disorder, well that was in 2010, are we any closer to knowing what that disorder was to maybe save another child from injury?
It would also be prudent IMO to look into the MTHFR mutation to see if those individuals should also be advised against vaccination. I'm sure there may be other mutations or conditions that could cause an adverse reaction I'm only citing MTHFR because I'm most familiar with it.
For clarification I am not in any way saying or even insinuating that vaccines cause autism, there is are many injuries that can result such as asthma, allergies, sensory disorder that are chronic lifelong ailments that vaccines can contribute to that need to be looked at as possible adverse reactions and not just accepted as the new normal.
I suggest you read up on this, because it has been proven over and over again that there is ZERO link between vaccinations and autism. The reason you don't know anyone in older generations diagnosed with ASD is for a variety of reasons--one of which being that there wasn't a good understanding of it until quite recently.
I understand the intuitive appeal of thinking that vaccinations and autism are connected, but the facts say they aren't.
This argument is always pointless here.
I actually had measles as a kid. It was the most miserable memory I have from childhood. It changed me. I was 7 or 8 at the time. It affected my brain, and threw me into a childhood depression actually. I'll never forget what it was like, on top of the physical side, which was awful as well.
You'd think though, that it would have given me immunity, right? Well, I thought so anyway. Found out with my first pregnancy that it didn't, and they couldn't vaccinate me at that time. Might be different now, but I faced the pregnancy at risk. I did get vaccinated afterwards.
Now I'm on 2 immuno-suppressing meds for the rest of my life. So I'm at risk for everything. I have to avoid people. If I get sick, it's a major hospital visit thing. So I'm one of the people affected in several ways. You don't want your kids to get these diseases. Research, but don't just believe that you are doing the best thing by not vaccinating, because you're not. Unless there is a specific allergy or known issue, what they are facing can be life altering, and you will be responsible. I don't get why so many things seem to be going backwards as I age instead of forwards. By all means ask for accountability, and the best possible vaccines. JMO.
I had my son vaccinated, due to extreme pressure from the paediatrician, and whilst I'm not opposed to vaccines per se, I am against the amount of vaccines they give children in one go, and the close intervals at which they're given.
When my son was born, first vaccines were given at 6-9 weeks, then 6-9 months. MMR was given just before they started school, so around 4 years old.
I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .
One problem is increased risk of childhood infections for your own kid.There is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program which is funded by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine recommended to children and pregnant women. So this is paid out of the pockets of the public and not from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. There are specific requirements that must be met to have a claim considered and it can be notoriously difficult to file a claim since doctors do not always document an adverse reaction. In addition there is a window of three years to file a claim for an injury and two years for an injury resulting in death under the NVICP. I have read conflicting information about whether a civil suit can be filed against a vaccine manufacturer.
Hannah Poling is the most well known case I know of that demonstrates the need to identify suceptible individuals prior to vaccination. The following article talks about her case and in it this excerpt:
"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."
The full article if anyone wants to read it:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/
So even after this case they still aren't testing before vaccination, why? When I vaccinated my first son I had no idea to question if my son shouldn't be receiving some or all of the recommended vaccines because of any underlying issues. This needs to be done in the hospital as a routine procedure, no different than giving the Hep B and vitamin K shots. The parents need to be sat down and presented the information before a vaccine is even mentioned. They say in the article it was an unknown mitochondrial disorder, well that was in 2010, are we any closer to knowing what that disorder was to maybe save another child from injury?
It would also be prudent IMO to look into the MTHFR mutation to see if those individuals should also be advised against vaccination. I'm sure there may be other mutations or conditions that could cause an adverse reaction I'm only citing MTHFR because I'm most familiar with it.
For clarification I am not in any way saying or even insinuating that vaccines cause autism, there is are many injuries that can result such as asthma, allergies, sensory disorder that are chronic lifelong ailments that vaccines can contribute to that need to be looked at as possible adverse reactions and not just accepted as the new normal.
StephanieLynn, I am very sorry for what you had to get through with your kid. I had breakthrough measles, too, but luckily, in my country the vaccine was given at 7 or 8, and by that time, I had enough traits that prompted my parents to send me to school one year earlier, and they would have done it two years earlier had the school agreed. Many years later, I diagnosed myself with ADHD, and when I asked my dad who in the family could have it, he, without missing a beat, said, "of course, myself. And my dad".Arkteia, I appreciate all of your points I really do but there is still the issue of the vaccines not being safe for ALL children as they claim. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there are vulnerable children but we don't know until after they are vaccinated who they are. Granted it might be a very small number but that statistic doesn't really matter then when it's your kid you know?
In my case I had all the doctors and nurses very enthusiastic to give my kid the shots but when he had an apparently rare incidence of breakthrough measles and then was later found to have delays and needed therapy for his sensory disorder, those people weren't writing the checks for the therapists and driving him to his appointments weekly. You have a subset of parents out there who don't qualify for reimbursement under the vaccine fund but have to pay the price for those shots for a very long time and in some cases for life.
He had the high pitched cry and fever right after one of his shots but I didn't know that wasn't normal and most parents like me don't think to question. I question everything now.
I am sorry, Lyra. I am undergoing routine physical, and I plan to get shingles shot - it is earlier than indicated, but I had chickenpox as a child, and mom had shingles once. At least this could reduce the risk for people like you.
StephanieLynn, I am very sorry for what you had to get through with your kid. I had breakthrough measles, too, but luckily, in my country the vaccine was given at 7 or 8, and by that time, I had enough traits that prompted my parents to send me to school one year earlier, and they would have done it two years earlier had the school agreed. Many years later, I diagnosed myself with ADHD, and when I asked my dad who in the family could have it, he, without missing a beat, said, "of course, myself. And my dad".
If you do a very good genealogy work, like I did, you might see the traits, and even the sides that the symptoms in your kids are coming from. My younger kid has all things in the world, and I clearly can see my MIL and my dad in him.
Arkteia, I can't get the shingles vaccine because it is a live virus and I'm on immuno-suppressant drugs. I worry about that one. I will get the pneumonia vaccine again this year. I need all the help I can get.
Thanks Arkteia and ceg, he is a great kid and he does struggle a bit, his coordination will always be a struggle and his attention is all over the place but he can keep pace at school and most importantly he has a good heart.
It is interesting how other countries give the shots on a different schedule. I wish the U.S. would at the very least give the MMR at a later age then it would also put it farther apart from when the autism and other related conditions are usually diagnosed. Maybe that would be more reassuring for parents.
No doubt that there is a genetic link, I'm sure he gets some of this from my husband as he has OCD. I don't know how appropriate it is to say I'm glad you recognized ADHD in yourself, but I am glad because then you can find appropriate help which is so important.
There is no question that there has been a sizeable and alarming increase in cases of autism and allergies in children. Vaccines, in my opinion have absolutely nothing to do with this, they're just something administered at the age where the condition manifests itself. I do feel that the cause will be determined years from now, and I suspect that plastics will be implicated. ...