shape
carat
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clarity

Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diamond?

Sopy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
21
I am looking to get this one now. My BF is willing to exchange for better quality. Please let me know what you all think. Thanks



This 0.90 Carat Round diamond G Color SI1 Clarity has Good proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

SHAPE: Round
CARAT WEIGHT: 0.90
COLOR: G
CLARITY: SI1
CUT: Good
POLISH: Excellent
SYMMETRY: Very Good
FLUORESCENCE: None
L/W/D (MM): 6.07*6.04*3.83

L/W RATIO: 1.00
DEPTH %: 63.30
GIRDLE: Medium
TABLE %: 59.00
CULET: None
CERTIFICATE: GIA
CROWN ∠: 38.00
CROWN %: 16.00
PAVILION ∠: 40.40

PAVILION %: 42.50
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Hi, I would say that is a diamond we would not recommend. That diamond is not well cut. For one thing, it is too deep making it face up in diameter like a smaller stone. But rather than explain the problems with "good" cut, I will give you some parameters to help you find a great stone!

Look for:

GIA Excellent Cut ONLY...start here or the rest of what I list will be hard to find!

Polish and symmetry can be excellent or very good

measurements:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41 will work if crown angle is close to 34)

If the measurements including the angles are good, such as within the parameters I listed, you have the likelihood of having less light leakage which results in a brighter and more beautiful stone!

In reality, "good" cut is actually not good! Even some of the stones in the excellent range are not as good as others. But I'd rather someone buy an excellent cut that is outside the parameters I listed before buying "very good" or "good" cut.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

No. That's a horrendous choice. Seriously bad.

Round diamond 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want? Well, we have tools to help you with that. But that is not enough.
What you need after that is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. All our best vendors do though.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. With AGS0 stones you don't strictly need an idealscope image. But getting one is nice to confirm performance and that is why almost all our best vendors provide them for you. Not all AGS0's are created the same though, so if you want to make sure it's the very best cut, post it and we'll evaluate it for you.

Generally you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this)

And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA does for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants.


Okay?
 

Sopy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
21
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Are you saying that this diamond will not sparkle at all?
 

Sphene

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
666
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Even the most hideous diamond will catch the light if the light has the power of the sun and you twist and turn it enough lol - but do you want to waste money or have some one on PS search for a beauty for you whats your budget and size you seek
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,418
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Sopy|1450959199|3965702 said:
Are you saying that this diamond will not sparkle at all?

You need to read the "Knowledge" pulldown menu so you understand how a diamond returns light. If the diamond is too shallow,
deep, or, does not have the right angles the light will leak out the side or bottom of the stone instead of being returned up through
the top where you want to see it.

Look at the pictures on this page specifically the Ideal Scope Reference Chart. It shows how the light gets bent depending on the cut.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut

If you give us your budget for you stone we can help you find a well cut stone that will have the best combination of light return,
sparkle and brilliance. Face it, diamonds are expensive and we just hate to see you spend thousands of dollars on something that
might only look "good" part of the time. We would like you to have a stone that looks good almost all of the time. DiamondSeeker
posted the cheat sheet of ranges to stay in. You will do fairly good if you stay in those ranges. You can also use the HCA tool
to help. Look for stones that score 2 or under.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
290
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Sopy, if you state your budget and what matters to you most (sparkly-est, biggest, whitest, etc) PS members will happily point you toward some good stones. Generally there will be a handful of choices they can make in 60 seconds that would take you hours and days to find. Then you can choose amongst the preselected ones. You will be happier this way in the long run, I predict. These folk are experts and do this all the time. Many a bride has been reeled back from the brink of a diamond disaster.......
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Better to buy a slightly smaller excellent cut stone than a larger good cut stone. The good cut may have a diameter that is small due to excessive depth, so you may as well benefit from the better light return of the smaller stone.

My original diamond was ungraded. I thought it was pretty. Then I saw what an excellent cut stone looks like in comparison. There is no way I would ever recommend anyone buy a good cut stone, because good=poor in that scenario.

Stick with GIA Excellent cut. Then you won't waste time looking at stones that are not going to perform well.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,229
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

by Sopy » 24 Dec 2015 06:13
Are you saying that this diamond will not sparkle at all?


Sphene|1450962846|3965710 said:
Even the most hideous diamond will catch the light if the light has the power of the sun and you twist and turn it enough lol - but do you want to waste money or have some one on PS search for a beauty for you whats your budget and size you seek

To help reinforce what Sphene has said - at the most basic level, look at the chart below - FOCUS ON THE BOTTOM TWO LINES - you don't need, at this point, to understand all the light performance images included in the first 3 lines. Yes, ALL diamonds return light, but from where and to where is extremely important. Angles and proportions determine that. The members here in PS can help you avoid getting a diamond that will appear small or dark or that lacks 'sparkle' - especially in low-light conditions.

using_is_reference_chart_72.jpg

You have some great information in response to your question - I would recommend you take the time to re-read all of the responses in this thread.

Best wishes!
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

diamondseeker2006 said:
Hi, I would say that is a diamond we would not recommend. That diamond is not well cut. For one thing, it is too deep making it face up in diameter like a smaller stone. But rather than explain the problems with "good" cut, I will give you some parameters to help you find a great stone!

Look for:

GIA Excellent Cut ONLY...start here or the rest of what I list will be hard to find!

Polish and symmetry can be excellent or very good

measurements:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41 will work if crown angle is close to 34)

If the measurements including the angles are good, such as within the parameters I listed, you have the likelihood of having less light leakage which results in a brighter and more beautiful stone!

In reality, "good" cut is actually not good! Even some of the stones in the excellent range are not as good as others. But I'd rather someone buy an excellent cut that is outside the parameters I listed before buying "very good" or "good" cut.
Actually some Very good cut stones are better than Excellent cut stones proportion wise and performance wise. But they are difficult to find. And if found can be a bargain. Nobody really cuts to get a VG grade. Hah
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

gr8leo87...yes, but that is looking for a needle in a haystack, really. And that is not for a beginner. I'd still rather have the excellent cut on paper. If one ever has reason to sell the stone, the excellent cut will give the stone more value.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,786
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Sopy|1450931560|3965613 said:
I am looking to get this one now. My BF is willing to exchange for better quality. Please let me know what you all think. Thanks
As a member of the trade I can neither criticize another merchant's stone or recommend one. But I think the other members of the forum are giving good advice! A couple of general things:

The beauty of a diamond - fire and brillance - is entirely driven by how well it handles light, which is almost entirely driven by the quality of the cut craftsmanship - proportions, facet alignment, and finish.

Clarity characteristics can also play into light performance. Some Si1's are perfectly fine, others are potentially problematic. The folks here can give you feedback on that as well if you post the report number.

If you are looking at GIA graded stones it's best to stick with Triple Ex. Not only does that give you the best probability that cut quality is in the upper end, but it makes selling or trading the stone much easier in the future. While many people think they will never want to trade up, never is a long time :wink2:
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,786
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

diamondseeker2006|1450980535|3965834 said:
gr8leo87...yes, but that is looking for a needle in a haystack, really. And that is not for a beginner. I'd still rather have the excellent cut on paper. If one ever has reason to sell the stone, the excellent cut will give the stone more value.

DS,
Completely agree with this, and I said as much in my post which was simultaneous with yours.

Triple Ex, while clearly a broad category with some under-performers at the margins, has quickly become a default standard in the market. Stones without the Triple Ex will present an additional challenge to resale in the future. Not that they can't be sold and not that some Very Good stones are not also nice, but they will simply not be as liquid. Therefore value is reduced as price will have to become more attractive to overcome that obstacle.
 

Sopy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
21
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Since this diamond is poorly cut and you guys are saying it will not be so sparkly, I want to know if this diamond will appear smaller than .90?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Sopy|1451108461|3966298 said:
Since this diamond is poorly cut and you guys are saying it will not be so sparkly, I want to know if this diamond will appear smaller than .90?


Yes. It goes not have the light return to look it's full size.

using_IS_Reference_Chart_72.jpg

See the chart above. Your stone is in the "very deep" range of the one on the far right.


There are thousands of better stones out there. It isn't hard to find one. Move on.
 

Sopy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
21
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

This 1.00 Carat Round diamond H Color I1 Clarity has Very Good proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

SHAPE: Round
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.00
COLOR: H
CLARITY: I1
CUT: Very Good
POLISH: Excellent
SYMMETRY: Excellent
FLUORESCENCE: Faint
L/W/D (MM): 6.40*6.35*3.93

L/W RATIO: 1.01
DEPTH %: 61.60
GIRDLE: Slightly Thick
TABLE %: 59.00
CULET: None
CERTIFICATE: GIA
CROWN ∠: 35.50
CROWN %: 14.50
PAVILION ∠: 40.80

PAVILION %: 43.00
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Still too steep/deep. :knockout:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

No. Learn to use the HCA and stick to stones with scores under 2.It's under the tools tab at the top.
Pretty soon I am going to start wondering if you are a troll posting the worst stones the could find.

Who wants I clarity in a ring stone? No one, that's who. Stick to SI or better
 

Sphene

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
666
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

Gypsy|1451124148|3966343 said:
No. Learn to use the HCA and stick to stones with scores under 2.It's under the tools tab at the top.
Pretty soon I am going to start wondering if you are a troll posting the worst stones the could find.

Who wants I clarity in a ring stone? No one, that's who. Stick to SI or better

Benefit of the doubt - could they have a very limited budget and GF said she wants a carat
 

Sopy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
21
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

what about this diamond?

This 0.91 Carat Round diamond E Color SI2 Clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

SHAPE: Round
CARAT WEIGHT: 0.91
COLOR: E
CLARITY: SI2
CUT: Excellent
POLISH: Ideal
SYMMETRY: Ideal
FLUORESCENCE: Strong
L/W/D (MM): 6.12*6.19*3.91

L/W RATIO: 1.01
DEPTH %: 63.40
GIRDLE: Thin - Slightly Thick
TABLE %: 53.20
CULET: Pointed
CERTIFICATE: AGS
CROWN ∠: 35.40
CROWN %: 16.60
PAVILION ∠: 40.80

PAVILION %: 43.10
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Update on our choice. Please look...What about this Diam

No.

Too deep. Stick to diamonds with depth of under 62.3

I really am thinking this is a troll now. No one could find such a bad lot of stones by accident.

If you aren't a troll go back and read the first post I listed for you. Since apparently you didn't the first time.

Then read diamondseekers post.

We have already posted what you need. You are just ignoring it all.

And I am done. I have no patience for this. And I think you are a troll.
 
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