Unpleasant Experience with ajsgems.com

[BWise]

I''ve always been fond of spinel and the color red, so I was really happy when I came across these two:
ACS
AJS GEMS

Since the AJS stone appears to have better cut by description, I emailed them asking if they would let it go for less. They said no. So I told them that ACS is offering a similar spinel at half of the price.

The answer from AJS Gems was "See if you don''t get an orange or a brown stone.............."

Before this I was equally comfortable with both vendors so you can imagine my surprise. I worte back to let AJS know that they disgraced themselves by attacking the credibility of another reputable vendor, and my own judgement.

You can probably guess the ending - I bought the ACS stone! And though all of you deserve to know about AJS.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Having just met with a spinel dealer, I can tell you that there are huge price per ct differences between different shades of red in spinels. I am not surprised that you found those two vastly different prices, because the closer one is to pure ruby stop sign red with no orange, brown, or pink, the more you will spend by a large factor.

I don''t take that comment to be cutting down the competitor, but more explaining the reality of what KIND of red spinel you would be getting for that lower price. There is nothing wrong with you receiving an orangey brownish red spinel if that is what you paid for and expect. It isn''t like they said, "see what kind of fraudulent piece of glass they''ll sell you!" Now THAT would be cutting down a competitor.

Just my two cents'' worth!

 

[Gemoholic]

Stoplight red spinals have stoplight red prices! You will come across that with all stones. The better the color, higher the clarity ect ect will effect the price. I personally would be greatful for them pointing out that the other spinal may be poor quality as it is so inexpensive.

Pretty stones cost big bucks.

I do see nothing wrong in trying to bargain. I guess they know their stone is nice and thus worth what they are asking.

How is the spinal you bought? Do you love it?

 

[MJO]

Date: 8/29/2006 3:31:30 PM
Author: wallermama
Having just met with a spinel dealer, I can tell you that there are huge price per ct differences between different shades of red in spinels. I am not surprised that you found those two vastly different prices, because the closer one is to pure ruby stop sign red with no orange, brown, or pink, the more you will spend by a large factor.

I don't take that comment to be cutting down the competitor, but more explaining the reality of what KIND of red spinel you would be getting for that lower price. There is nothing wrong with you receiving an orangey brownish red spinel if that is what you paid for and expect. It isn't like they said, 'see what kind of fraudulent piece of glass they'll sell you!' Now THAT would be cutting down a competitor.

Just my two cents' worth!

I fully agree with you on your explanation. I have nothing but praise for AJSgems.com. His stones were exactly as he described them to me. You can't compare spinels or most colored stones unless they are side by side since slight variations in color, cut, size and clarity make hugh differences in price. As the ACS Description says the stone has a slight orange and purple secondary color. Pure red is much more expensive. I have found Arnold and company more than competative with their prices. Not cheap but not expensive. Even now look at the mozambique Paraiba he has for sale. Most dealers are charging much more. The 17ct for about $3,000/ct seems reasonable to me. I wish I had the extra cash on hand.

Regards,
Maurice

 

[BWise]

Well, of course I know the better the color is, the more pricy it gets.

In this particular experience, I had to make the judgement call base on pictures posted on both websites, and the reputation of both vendors on their ability to accurated portrait and describe the stones. Before that AJS comment, I was communicating to both vendors and reached to the conclusion that the color of the stones were quite comparable hence the bargain - it never hurt to ask - and they have the right to say no.

I felt offended bacause AJS was meaning "my stone is as good as I say it is, but the others, regardless their reputation, are lying about theirs.'' by that comment

If you read Barbara''s description on her ACS site, she had very honestly disclosed all hues you can observe from the spinel. To me, that''s more professional than ''top top red!''


I have not yet received my spinel and cannot wait! Will definitely post pictures when I got it.

 

[movie zombie]

native cut ACS v. no windows AJS .....

having met with the same spinel vendor as wallermama, i can also say that unless you see the stones side by side and/or know what a real drop dead gorgeous stop sign red w/o extinction spinel looks like, well, its hard not to be prejudiced toward a no windows stone......especially one with the description and color i see on my monitor.

that''s not to say the ACS stone won''t be acceptable to you: beauty is always in the eye of the beholder and there is always a stone for every budget...and we all want to get a bargain. i also don''t think bargaining re price is a bad idea. but a native cut stone isn''t going to get the same price as a better cut stone even if the color is as good.

and i''m guessing even the AJS stone isn''t the top of the line world class spinel that we''d all love to own....not for that price. but for what they are, i''m going to bet they''re both appropriately priced.

movie zombie

ps the spinel vendor we met with: it was very very obvious in viewing the stones side by side as to why they were priced the way they were....and even the $1800/c red spinel had some extinction....as he said, if it didn''t it would be way more per carat because the color was there otherwise.

 

[BWise]

My dear friends, thanks much for all your comments.

I am not arguing with the pricing and how different the two spinels might be. My point is, it was not a decent thing for Arnold to say that the stone from ACS will defninitely be an orange/brown one, even with the clear description and picture from ACS. He can tell as much as he want on how nice his spinel is, but discredit other vendors with loose guess doesn't make him any better.

With that, I rest my case......

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/29/2006 5:53:35 PM
Author: yingh
it was not a decent thing for Arnold to say that the stone from ACS will defninitely be an orange/brown one,

I thought he said "see if you get an orange or brown stone" ... that's IMO a far cry rom "YOU ARE going to get an orange or brown stone". One is a warning, one is a prediction.

I *personally* see nothing "indecent" about that vendor's behavior as recounted by you. And since it's an open forum, where we're all entitled to our own opinions - I'll say as much even though you now consider the case closed.

ETA: I believe YOU were the one to brooch the topic of "the other vendor" in hopes of negotiating a better deal. Of course he has the right to explain why HIS stone might be more since you asked. Time will tell if his "warnings" prove accurate.

 

[BWise]

He said: see if you DON'T get an orange/brown stone...

You see, sometimes it is not about what we say, it is what we choose NOT to say, differentiate some of us from others. That's what I call 'decency'.

I shared my experience purely for the purpose of sharing. Everyone, by choice, has the right to have his/her own opinions. As long as you read my story, I've done my share.

 

[colormyworld]

Hi Yingh, Please post pics in sunlight when you recieve the spinel.
Doug

 

[MJO]

Date: 8/29/2006 6:53:57 PM
Author: yingh
He said: see if you DON''T get an orange/brown stone...

You see, sometimes it is not about what we say, it is what we choose NOT to say, differentiate some of us from others. That''s what I call ''decency''.

I shared my experience purely for the purpose of sharing. Everyone, by choice, has the right to have his/her own opinions. As long as you read my story, I''ve done my share.

Hello Yingh,

You are interperating his intent without the benefit of physical gestures or tone of voice. Those make words seem quite different. You just emphasized the word DON''T by capitalizing it. How do you you know what his intent of tone was since you first didn''t emphasize it when you wrote it at the beginning. Also you must remember that he is in Thailand and (even though he is American) is used to talking and writing to non english speaking people. I have receive some emails from him that sounds like he was writing in broken English. I doubt he even went to the website to look at the other stone but was just saying from experiance that not many people are selling stones of that calibur for low prices. You took the best stone in that category and asked him why he wouldn''t sell it for the same amount as others he has on his same page that are listed for much less. He told you why, it is not an orangy/brown stone. Expecially at AJS you get what you pay for. I have seen him leave prices low for the same stones and not raise the price like others do when the wholesale prices go up. I have made many very good buys from Arnold and trust him tremendously. I have not purchased from ACS but do not doubt her honesty on her stones either. As she said in the description the stone is orangy and purplish red. Orangy ussually leads to a brown mask.

Regards,
Maurice

 

[flopkins]

Date: 8/29/2006 2:30:36 PM
Author:yingh
...so I told them that ACS is offering a similar spinel at half of the price.

IMO this is where you and the AJS differed in opinion - obviously you think the stones are similar, obviously AJS does not.

I will echo wallermama and movie zombie in saying that even the slightest shades off of red give an entirely different look to the stone than a pure red, and that it will make a HUGe difference in price point.

Please post pics of the stone when you get it.

 

[BWise]

This discussion is getting really interesting, and I appreciate all the inputs. I realized now that it is not about pricing or bargaining, it is more of a personality issue. Arnold was upset because I told him the two stones are comparable, I was upset because the way he expressed himself.

Think about this, say two person arguing about who is smarter than who:

Scenario One:
A: I am smarter than you.
B: No, I am smarter than you.
A: No, I am smarter because I can do...

Scenario Two:
A: I am smarter than you.
B: No, I am smarter than you. And you are dumb.
A: No, you are dumb so I am smarter...

By now I am almost laughing because all this sound a little childish. Maybe I should order the AJS spinel, and have a side by side comparison (but I have set aside that $1000 to replace my dishwasher...)

 

[partgypsy]

Yingh, probably more of the same rehashing, but to let you know I have ordered stones from both AJS and ACS websites. I would rate both as being very honest with descriptions and fair in pricing (and would order from both again). If there is a difference in price, there is probably a reason for it, and indeed, by both the pictures and her description it appears that the ACS stone has a secondary orange component that is not evident in the AJS stone. So, while you may feel they are comparable, they really are not. I''m sure the AJS representative could have picked a more diplomatic way of stating it, but that''s all he was saying.

 

[movie zombie]

yingh,

love your breakdown....and i''m laughing with you....!

yes, i really wish you would order the two and see them side by side....only then will you know if they are really comparable, which i doubt. my experience with color stones is that no two really are comparable as its always a matter of tradeoffs...just like with diamonds. unless i''ve seen a really really world class stone to know the ideal, its hard to decide what tradeoffs i might be ok with making in a less than ideal stone. which means i need to see those less than ideal stones side by side to determine those tradeoffs.

movie zombie

 

[Barbara]

Hello Yingh and all,

It was a surprise to log in this morning and read this spirited discussion involving my company and AJS.

I have dealt with AJS in the past, always pleasantly, and sometimes refer customers to them when I don't have something they need.

I think, in general, all reputable vendors are selling stones basically for what they are "worth". Certainly I have had top red, better cut spinels for which I charged prices comparable to the AJS stone. I am inclined not to interpret the AJS comment in a negative light.

As has been made clear in the discussion, the stone that was purchased from ACS was both native cut and a bit orangier than ideal color.
I hope, Yingh, that you do like the stone when you receive it, and I do think you got a great bargain, but as you know, all my gems come with a no questions asked return policy.

Barbara

 

[MJO]

Hello Barbara,

I have not had to pleasure of dealing with you in the past. As I had said in this post, your description of the stone seems accurate and from what I have read and heard about your company you run a very nice honest business. I look forward to purchasing from you in the future when the time arises.

Regards,
Maurice Oppenheimer

 

[movie zombie]

thanks for reading and posting, Barbara!

movie zombie

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/30/2006 12:57:59 PM
Author: Barbara

I think, in general, all reputable vendors are selling stones basically for what they are ''worth''. Certainly I have had top red, better cut spinels for which I charged prices comparable to the AJS stone. I am inclined not to interpret the AJS comment in a negative light.

Me neither.

I know many gem dealers get tired of dealing with consumers who ask questions like, "Why is your stone priced twice what this other stone is? They look the same to me." The gem dealer knows this is an apples-to-oranges situation, but explaining it can get tiresome, especially when you''ve got a customer who is pre-disposed to interpret your explanation as used-car-salesman puffery instead of basic gemology.

This is why most gem dealers will only deal with retailers. The ones who sell direct to the public are either thick-skinned or unusually patient souls.

Colored stone valuation is only for the well-trained and experienced. Certainly it''s not something you can do long distance over a computer monitor.

 

[pyramid]

I think if AJS knew the gemstone and the price range he probably was guessing at what you would get.

I know it is not diamonds but if someone was going to buy a D color diamond and one vendor had the exact same stone in relation to the cut, clarity, carat weight and you said to another vendor well he sells it for $15,000 cheaper, if that vendor knows his diamonds he will know that the other is not selling you a D color diamond.