Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusive)

[LimitedGems]

I purchased a 2+ carat sapphire from Pakistan some years ago. I purchased it because it were a great deal by my opinion. I trusted the sales person because I had done a lot of business with them in the past, now I can no longer find them.

I sent it to GIA for grading including Origin opinion, it came back "Inconclusive" because the sapphire is Internally Flawless (IF) and it's Unheated as well. Then I contacted AGL and I got the answer it would most likely be the same answer from them (inconclusive origin) because the sapphire are IF. And I were told I shouldn't botter to send it to them for grading because it would only lead to financial loss without any new answers.

I were told by the seller it were mined in Pakistan. Did they mine blue sapphires in Batakundi 4+ years ago? Do Kashmir provide Cornflower blue sapphires? Or do Pakistan even provide IF sapphires at all?

Or is there any other mine in the world that are known to produce IF sapphires? Please give me your opinions and if you got any idea about the origin please do let me know. I'm dying of curiosity!

 

[athenaworth]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I've never heard of an internally flawless sapphire. How can they determine that it's unheated if there aren't any inclusions to back up that finding?

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I've never heard of an internally flawless sapphire. How can they determine that it's unheated if there aren't any inclusions to back up that finding?

To be honest, I got no clue. Probably because there's zero indications of heating?

 

[T L]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Many African sapphires are very clean, but I've never heard of an IF designation for sapphires, only for diamonds.

It looks like it could be African, as they are slightly greyish, but since it doesn't have inclusions, there is no way to determine origin per what GIA and AGL told you.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Many African sapphires are very clean, but I've never heard of an IF designation for sapphires, only for diamonds.

It looks like it could be African, as they are slightly greyish, but since it doesn't have inclusions, there is no way to determine origin per what GIA and AGL told you.

I know it might look "graish" on the picture but that's because it's laying on silver plate and because of the sapphire's transparency. It's clean blue and GIA graded it as such.

 

[T L]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Many African sapphires are very clean, but I've never heard of an IF designation for sapphires, only for diamonds.

It looks like it could be African, as they are slightly greyish, but since it doesn't have inclusions, there is no way to determine origin per what GIA and AGL told you.

I know it might look "graish" on the picture but that's because it's laying on silver plate and because of the sapphire's transparency. It's clean blue and GIA graded it as such.

It's not a very saturated looking blue which is what I'm saying, based on the photo.

GIA doesn't denote saturation levels in their grading reports, unlike AGL.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Many African sapphires are very clean, but I've never heard of an IF designation for sapphires, only for diamonds.

It looks like it could be African, as they are slightly greyish, but since it doesn't have inclusions, there is no way to determine origin per what GIA and AGL told you.

I know it might look "graish" on the picture but that's because it's laying on silver plate and because of the sapphire's transparency. It's clean blue and GIA graded it as such.

It's not a very saturated looking blue which is what I'm saying, based on the photo.

GIA doesn't denote saturation levels in their grading reports, unlike AGL.

No, that might true. I attached another photo next to my hand for another background color. For this sapphire background has everything to say, I personally belive it's because of the high transparancy. I also attached GIA image.

The first "lighter" pictures are taken in regular daylight, this "darker" photo is taken between my fingers (the shadow from the clevage(?) make it look darker), light used in the last picture is fabric light (white type not yellow). It looks more dull in the last picture but I suppose that's because of macro. You are able to see the high transparancy from my first pictures and also at the GIA image.

I'm far from being a specialist so all my statements are only my own opinion and knowledge, I can be wrong.

And regarding GIA and saturation, I know.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Could you please post a scan of the GIA report. I have never heard of GIA grading sapphires for clarity –I'd be very interested to see the clarity grade on the GIA report

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

Could you please post a scan of the GIA report. I have never heard of GIA grading sapphires for clarity –I'd be very interested to see the clarity grade on the GIA report

Of course GIA cant put "IF" on Report, they only set "Transparent". But I asked them why Origin were "Inconclusive" and the answer was because there's NO inclusions what so ever. And AGL said the same, some few sapphires are interally flawless and when this occurs it's impossible to state any Geographical Origin. So internally flawless sapphires aren't unheard of but probably very very scarce.

 

[Niel]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

But the gia report says its natural? How did they say they determined that.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

But the gia report says its natural? How did they say they determined that.

Both natural and unheated. I dont know as I never asked for that information.

 

[digdeep]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you can scan the AGL and GIA reports that would help those of us trying to help you understand this gem. It looks beautiful on your hand.........

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you can scan the AGL and GIA reports that would help those of us trying to help you understand this gem. It looks beautiful on your hand.........

I cropped the image so it's easier to read the text or else the text will be extremely small (something PS should modify). I can post whole image if neccessary but it will end up rather small on PS.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless.
Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires.
The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers.
Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale.
Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires.
In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless.
Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires.
The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers.
Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale.
Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires.
In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

When both GIA and AGL cant put origin because there's no inclusions, or any imperfections then I would call it Internally Flawless. I know IF-I applies to diamonds. But what's a better way to describe a clarity than the diamond scale even when it comes to sapphires or other gemstones? Interally Flawless will still mean the same, that there's no imperfections at all. Internally flawless, flawless, slightly included, included will still describe the same thing even if the material are different. I know GIA dont use this type of grading on gemstones but still, it's an abbrivation.

I would rather buy what I would name a internally flawless (IF) sapphire in front of an Included (I) sapphire because these statements will still describe the clarity/transparancy of the sapphire.

And if following AGL's gemstone scale, this sapphire would still be a "FI1" = same as IF/FL = Free of Inclusions.

 

[Niel]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless.
Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires.
The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers.
Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale.
Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires.
In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

When both GIA and AGL cant put origin because there's no inclusions, or any imperfections then I would call it Internally Flawless. I know IF-I applies to diamonds. But what's a better way to describe a clarity than the diamond scale even when it comes to sapphires or other gemstones? Interally Flawless will still mean the same, that there's no imperfections at all. Internally flawless, flawless, slightly included, included will still describe the same thing even if the material are different. I know GIA dont use this type of grading on gemstones but still, it's an abbrivation.

I would rather buy what I would name a internally flawless (IF) sapphire in front of an Included (I) sapphire because these statements will still describe the clarity/transparancy of the sapphire.

is it that they can't find any inclusions or that they can't find any that would be origin markers? Are all inclusions a way to trace origin? or do you have to have specific inclusions to tell? I mean, can they pretty much always trace origin?

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless.
Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires.
The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers.
Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale.
Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires.
In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

When both GIA and AGL cant put origin because there's no inclusions, or any imperfections then I would call it Internally Flawless. I know IF-I applies to diamonds. But what's a better way to describe a clarity than the diamond scale even when it comes to sapphires or other gemstones? Interally Flawless will still mean the same, that there's no imperfections at all. Internally flawless, flawless, slightly included, included will still describe the same thing even if the material are different. I know GIA dont use this type of grading on gemstones but still, it's an abbrivation.

I would rather buy what I would name a internally flawless (IF) sapphire in front of an Included (I) sapphire because these statements will still describe the clarity/transparancy of the sapphire.

is it that they can't find any inclusions or that they can't find any that would be origin markers? Are all inclusions a way to trace origin? or do you have to have specific inclusions to tell? I mean, can they pretty much always trace origin?

There's no inclusions, neither are there any imperfections meaning it's impossible to determine any Geopgraphical Origin. And my personal experience with Origin reports and "Inconclusive" are when the sapphires has been heated. This one are unheated, that's why I asking for opinions and help because I do not understand it. But both GIA and AGL said the same, sometimes this happens in sapphires.

 

[pyramid]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I have read that with emeralds that a three phase inclusion (e.g. a gas bubble and dolomite crystal with typical jagged outline seen in syngenetic inclusions) can determine origin of colombia but an inclusion of only one type say a crystal can not tell them origin. Is this not the type of thing Rockdiamond is speaking about but in a sapphire variety?

 

[endless_summer]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless.
Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires.
The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers.
Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale.
Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires.
In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

When both GIA and AGL cant put origin because there's no inclusions, or any imperfections then I would call it Internally Flawless. I know IF-I applies to diamonds. But what's a better way to describe a clarity than the diamond scale even when it comes to sapphires or other gemstones? Interally Flawless will still mean the same, that there's no imperfections at all. Internally flawless, flawless, slightly included, included will still describe the same thing even if the material are different. I know GIA dont use this type of grading on gemstones but still, it's an abbrivation.

I would rather buy what I would name a internally flawless (IF) sapphire in front of an Included (I) sapphire because these statements will still describe the clarity/transparancy of the sapphire.

And if following AGL's gemstone scale, this sapphire would still be a "FI1" = same as IF/FL = Free of Inclusions.

There's no reason to get defensive. Rockdiamond is offering education that could be useful to you in the future, and I think that he has offered you a very well thought out explanation for what might be going on. If you truly have an internally flawless sapphire, then that's great, but Rockdiamond's read on it - that there likely are inclusions, just not those present that would designate an origin, sounds closer to what may be going on for a type II gem. An eye clean colored stone is usually what folks are shooting for, and even then, depending on the type of inclusion, some can be desirable - for example, silk This is all just to say that suggesting your gem may have inclusions is not a bad thing - it's just a part of the CS world.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you would like to call it internally flawless clarity, that's your right. You can buy a dog and call it a cat, that is also your right.
This is a form primarily about diamonds, although I understand this section is about colored stones.
It seems to me that the entire site is designed to give consumers accurate information. To that end, I think getting the terms right is crucial.
Given the fact that neither GIA, or a AGL issues clarity grades for sapphires, combined with the fact that some sellers are using these terms to misinform consumers, I think subject is an important.

Pyramid is also expressing my point. The fact that a certain type of inclusion does not exist is not mean that no inclusions exist.
As far as discussions with GIA employees, they are worth very little besides whatever impression you might take away from it.
Put another way I can swear all day long that a diamond is internally flawless because someone from GA told me so. However without the corresponding report it means nothing

ETA- endless Summer is correct is no offense intended. I hope you don't take it that way.

 

[endless_summer]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you would like to call it internally flawless clarity, that's your right. You can buy a dog and call it a cat, that is also your right.
This is a form primarily about diamonds, although I understand this section is about colored stones.
It seems to me that the entire site is designed to give consumers accurate information. To that end, I think getting the terms right is crucial.
Given the fact that neither GIA, or a AGL issues clarity grades for sapphires, combined with the fact that some sellers are using these terms to misinform consumers, I think subject is an important.

Pyramid is also expressing my point. The fact that a certain type of inclusion does not exist is not mean that no inclusions exist.
As far as discussions with GIA employees, they are worth very little besides whatever impression you might take away from it.
Put another way I can swear all day long that a diamond is internally flawless because someone from GA told me so. However without the corresponding report it means nothing

ETA- endless Summer is correct is no offense intended. I hope you don't take it that way.

Rockdiamond, I'm glad you chimed back in. Pyramid expressed how I interpreted your comment much, much better that I did. I'm glad that you responded to the thread - you're very good about educating folks on the various threads in which you participate. It's probably not said enough, but it's very much appreciated, and I've certainly learned reading your comments on RockyTalk and now here too.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you would like to call it internally flawless clarity, that's your right. You can buy a dog and call it a cat, that is also your right.
This is a form primarily about diamonds, although I understand this section is about colored stones.
It seems to me that the entire site is designed to give consumers accurate information. To that end, I think getting the terms right is crucial.
Given the fact that neither GIA, or a AGL issues clarity grades for sapphires, combined with the fact that some sellers are using these terms to misinform consumers, I think subject is an important.

Pyramid is also expressing my point. The fact that a certain type of inclusion does not exist is not mean that no inclusions exist.
As far as discussions with GIA employees, they are worth very little besides whatever impression you might take away from it.
Put another way I can swear all day long that a diamond is internally flawless because someone from GA told me so. However without the corresponding report it means nothing

ETA- endless Summer is correct is no offense intended. I hope you don't take it that way.

I never intended to be offensive or aggresive in any way, I were just expressing my opinion. And by the way, AGL do grade clarity in their Reports. In other terms than IF-I. Instead it's FI1.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I would send it to AGL and see what you get. If I'm not mistaken, you have only spoken to AGL personnel, correct? They have not seen the stone nor had an opportunity to study it under magnification, have they?

 

[cm366]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I'd second that, bearing in mind that an AGL origin report would cost $350, which is (if it looks anything like the GIA's photo) a significant fraction of the value of the stone.

As far as Rockdiamond's point: No diagnostic inclusions is not the same as No Inclusions. There are almost certainly inclusions if GIA has confidently asserted that it's a natural and unheated stone. There's a good article on heat treatment and its detection here:

http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat_Treatment

(Note: this is a wiki link, not a forum link)

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

I'd second that, bearing in mind that an AGL origin report would cost $350, which is (if it looks anything like the GIA's photo) a significant fraction of the value of the stone.

As far as Rockdiamond's point: No diagnostic inclusions is not the same as No Inclusions. There are almost certainly inclusions if GIA has confidently asserted that it's a natural and unheated stone. There's a good article on heat treatment and its detection here:

http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat_Treatment

(Note: this is a wiki link, not a forum link)

That's true. Give me couple of weeks and I will post the results from AGL. I will ship the gemstone to them after Easter.

 

[chrono]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

What's happening here is that terms are being confused.
The reason that GIA could not identify origin was that certain types of imperfections in corundum can be used to identify origin. The fact that none of those specific imperfections existed in your sapphire does not mean that is internally flawless. Do not confuse this with a diamond grated internally flawless – The term is only used to identify clarity grading in diamonds, not in sapphires. The reason this is an issue for me, as a professional, is that many sellers of sapphires are using these terms to confuse consumers. Sapphires are not graded for clarity – and certainly not graded for clarity on the GIA diamond clarity scale. Therefore the terms internally flawless, VVS, etc, and other GIA diamond clarity grades do not apply to sapphires. In my opinion their use by sellers indicates misrepresentation or a lack of knowledge on the trade and how sapphires are evaluated

I agree with everything written here. I think you've misunderstood what both GIA and AGL told you. It isn't that the sapphire is internally flawless but that what they observed does not give them sufficient information to determine the origin of the sapphire. This is not common but it is normal.

I do not know about GIA but I know that AGL looks at flaws with the naked eye. Therefore, just because it is FI (free of inclusions) does not mean it is IF (internally flawless). If magnified, you will see inclusions and the study of these highly magnified inclusions tells the labs whether the sapphire has been heated or not. Labs are extremely careful about what they state and would not deliberately use FI and IF interchangeably. The two terms might seem the same to a layperson but to the labs and those in the trade, there is a significant difference between the two.

ETA
Just saw your post. Looking forward to the result although I am doubtful you will find out more. GIA has already determined that the sapphire is natural and unheated. AGL will tell you the same. The only difference is whether AGL is able to determine origin. You may already know this but unless you have an absolutely top stone, origin doesn't play much of a role in the value of a sapphire. It is the same for clarity - eye clean is the standard for sapphires.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you would like to call it internally flawless clarity, that's your right. You can buy a dog and call it a cat, that is also your right.
This is a form primarily about diamonds, although I understand this section is about colored stones.
It seems to me that the entire site is designed to give consumers accurate information. To that end, I think getting the terms right is crucial.
Given the fact that neither GIA, or a AGL issues clarity grades for sapphires, combined with the fact that some sellers are using these terms to misinform consumers, I think subject is an important.

Pyramid is also expressing my point. The fact that a certain type of inclusion does not exist is not mean that no inclusions exist.
As far as discussions with GIA employees, they are worth very little besides whatever impression you might take away from it.
Put another way I can swear all day long that a diamond is internally flawless because someone from GA told me so. However without the corresponding report it means nothing

ETA- endless Summer is correct is no offense intended. I hope you don't take it that way.

Rockdiamond, I'm glad you chimed back in. Pyramid expressed how I interpreted your comment much, much better that I did. I'm glad that you responded to the thread - you're very good about educating folks on the various threads in which you participate. It's probably not said enough, but it's very much appreciated, and I've certainly learned reading your comments on RockyTalk and now here too.

Thank you Endless- your words mean a lot. PS is a "tough room" so any acknowledgment is truly welcome.

LimitedGems- going back to your original question- you used the term "Kashmir".
I have seen sapphires reputed to be Kashmir. I associate it with a very deep colored, rich blue.
The initial pictures you posted look quite nice- but nothing like what would be associated with a "Kashmir" sapphire.
The photo on your fingers gets closer to the type of deep color of a Kashmir....but given the other photos, and the incredible rarity of true Kashmirs, its not likely yours is one.

My advice is to enjoy your beautiful stone as it is- it looks very nice.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

If you would like to call it internally flawless clarity, that's your right. You can buy a dog and call it a cat, that is also your right.
This is a form primarily about diamonds, although I understand this section is about colored stones.
It seems to me that the entire site is designed to give consumers accurate information. To that end, I think getting the terms right is crucial.
Given the fact that neither GIA, or a AGL issues clarity grades for sapphires, combined with the fact that some sellers are using these terms to misinform consumers, I think subject is an important.

Pyramid is also expressing my point. The fact that a certain type of inclusion does not exist is not mean that no inclusions exist.
As far as discussions with GIA employees, they are worth very little besides whatever impression you might take away from it.
Put another way I can swear all day long that a diamond is internally flawless because someone from GA told me so. However without the corresponding report it means nothing

ETA- endless Summer is correct is no offense intended. I hope you don't take it that way.

Rockdiamond, I'm glad you chimed back in. Pyramid expressed how I interpreted your comment much, much better that I did. I'm glad that you responded to the thread - you're very good about educating folks on the various threads in which you participate. It's probably not said enough, but it's very much appreciated, and I've certainly learned reading your comments on RockyTalk and now here too.

Thank you Endless- your words mean a lot. PS is a "tough room" so any acknowledgment is truly welcome.

LimitedGems- going back to your original question- you used the term "Kashmir".
I have seen sapphires reputed to be Kashmir. I associate it with a very deep colored, rich blue.
The initial pictures you posted look quite nice- but nothing like what would be associated with a "Kashmir" sapphire.
The photo on your fingers gets closer to the type of deep color of a Kashmir....but given the other photos, and the incredible rarity of true Kashmirs, its not likely yours is one.

My advice is to enjoy your beautiful stone as it is- it looks very nice.

I never stated the sapphire to be of Kashmir color. You are confusing one of my questions regarding origin with Kashmir. I bought the sapphire in Pakistan and my question was if they mined Blue sapphires in Batakundi 4 years ago. Or if it's possibly from Kashmir (if not Batakundi).

I can not for 100% sure tell it's mined in Pakistan but the seller told me so and it's the country where I purchased it. So I had to ask these questions here if it were a possibility that the sapphire are of Pakistan origin or not. I dont know much about Pakistan sapphires but I know blue sapphires of Pakistan origin usually are mined in Kashmir. Batakundi, I'm only aware of them mining Reddish/Pink/Purple sapphires. I have not been able to find any information about blue sapphires from Batakundi Basil area.

And thank you

 

[chrono]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

The quality of blue sapphires from the Kashmir mines has gone down dramatically since the 1930's, and have not produced anything of decent size and quality since then. Although there was reported mining in the early 2000's, very little is facet grade and whatever was saleable were small and of average quality. I am aware that Vincent Pardieu wrote a research paper on the purple sapphires submitted by Kashmir Gems to GIA, that were supposedly mined in the Batakundi area and even that is still under study. It is not unusual for vendors/sellers in a country to sell gems from a different country, so I would not take the vendor's word that your sapphire is indeed from Pakistan. If anything, the closer you are to the mines, the more likely the gem isn't what it is purported to be.

 

[LimitedGems]

Re: Unheated Internally Flawless Sapphire (Origin Inconclusi

The quality of blue sapphires from the Kashmir mines has gone down dramatically since the 1930's, and have not produced anything of decent size and quality since then. Although there was reported mining in the early 2000's, very little is facet grade and whatever was saleable were small and of average quality. I am aware that Vincent Pardieu wrote a research paper on the purple sapphires submitted by Kashmir Gems to GIA, that were supposedly mined in the Batakundi area and even that is still under study. It is not unusual for vendors/sellers in a country to sell gems from a different country, so I would not take the vendor's word that your sapphire is indeed from Pakistan. If anything, the closer you are to the mines, the more likely the gem isn't what it is purported to be.

Thank you for this information, I find it very helpfull