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Uncertified Engagement Ring :(

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JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
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24
I''ve been engaged for 2 years, and when my fiance and I went to pick out the setting the jeweler told us to buy an uncertified center stone and upgrade before the wedding. Well, my wedding is in September and I went to the jeweler to inquire about the price difference and he tried to convince me not to change the stone. He also tried to convince me that if I upgrade I should keep the original stone (implying that he didn''t really want to exchange the stone as he initially said we could). Now I''m worried that the appraisal that he gave to us is not at all what the ring is worth. I feel bad because it was a major investment, should I have it appraised by another jeweler, an independent appraiser? Any suggestions? Has this happened to anyone else?
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Everything sounds fishy to me, I'd return the ring and run away. Any chance the ring is still returnable?

If it's not returable at this point, I would get an independent appraisal (look under resources to find one near you). If the appraisal does not match any documents that you have from him saying what the stone is, you would have a good case to go back and demand your money.
 

jaguar

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
12
Date: 2/8/2007 8:26:26 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Everything sounds fishy to me, I''d return the ring and run away.
This does have a funny smell now doesn''t it? I suggest running like you are trying to escape the gates of hell with gasoline drawers on.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
When he first told you of the upgrade option, did he tell you his policy? What is it? He will credit you x amount of what you paid? If so, I would likely upgrade the stone but only with something that has a report from a reputable lab (ie. not an appraisal from him!) and under the condition it is verified by an independent appraiser to be what the report claims it is. You could run away and not work with this guy at all, but I fear you will either be stuck with this stone (and whatever it actually grades as), or not get nearly what you paid for it.
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
I''m just livid about this. OHH, and this jeweler told me if I don''t order my wedding bands now, they may not be in for my wedding IN SEPTEMBER! I didn''t tell my fiance about this...I don''t want to hurt his feelings if he paid too much for the ring. You live, you learn right?
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
He said when we wanted to upgrade we could basically trade in the current stone and pay the difference for whichever stone we picked. But the other night he tried to advise me to keep this stone and buy an additional one. That''s why the situation doesn''t feel right.
 

psaddict

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
105
Is he telling you he absolutely won''t do what he said he would do before, or is he simply trying to sway you in another direction to get more money out of you? If he''s just trying hard to sway you, put your foot down and demand that he stick with what he originally said he would do. See if he flat out refuses or not.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Date: 2/8/2007 8:44:39 PM
Author: JBunnie
He said when we wanted to upgrade we could basically trade in the current stone and pay the difference for whichever stone we picked. But the other night he tried to advise me to keep this stone and buy an additional one. That''s why the situation doesn''t feel right.
What kind of documentation do you have? What *exactly* do you have in writing?! This is what is key for any sort of action you might want to take in talking with him or going to a higher power.
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
He might be trying to swindle money from me, that''s what it sounds like. Also, there is a bunch of paperwork that my fiance gave me with the ring, it''s upstairs. I would have to take a look through it. I do know that there is an appraisal from the jeweler that sold us the ring, and I never thought to get another one.
 

Officers girl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
218
Can I ask why you arent happy with the uncerted stone?

I agree though he sounds very shady!! I would either return or do my exchange ASAP. I hope you get what you want out of this!!
 

NYCsparkle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
1,371
This does soound VERY fishy.....and i can''t imagine waiting 7 months for wedding bands
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
It''s not that I''m unhappy with the uncertified stone, it''s just that ever since we looked at the setting it was his intention to change the center stone before the wedding. We don''t want to change the size, just want it to have certification.
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
If youb are happy with your center stone and just want certification why not send it to one of the labs to be certified?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
You definitely need to have the stone independently appraised to see if it is what was represented when you purchased it. I am mystified why a jeweler would sell an engagement stone with the suggestion that it be upgraded before the wedding?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
You''d have to have the stone taken out of the setting to do that. I''d take the ring to an independent appraiser and get some preliminary information as to whether it is likely what was represented to you before I''d go to the trouble to have the stone unset.
 

Finding_Neverland

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
412
Here''s a link for you:

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

There''s a list of Independent appraisers. These appraisers do not sell jewelry themselves. You pay them, they work for you and you only.
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
I''m taking it to another jeweler tomorrow to see what the situation really is. This jeweler has made jewelery for my parents and myself in the past, he is also making my wedding necklace.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 2/8/2007 8:44:39 PM
Author: JBunnie
He said when we wanted to upgrade we could basically trade in the current stone and pay the difference for whichever stone we picked. But the other night he tried to advise me to keep this stone and buy an additional one. That''s why the situation doesn''t feel right.
yes this happened before and I don''t think we got the end story on that.... hmmm.... but anyway - he didn''t decline your desire to upgrade, right? He just encouraged you not to? So - don''t do what he suggests. He can suggest all he wants and as long as he doesn''t prevent you from doing what YOU want, there''s no problem here.

BUT - be VERY careful about what you get from him in the upgrade.
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
And the saga begins...I went to get the ring appraised by 2 jewelers today, and the first one said "It''s not worth anything to me" (good comment right?) and he didn''t give us an actual dollar amount. The second jeweler appraised it at less than half the price of what the jeweler who sold it to us said it was worth. Also, he initially wrote it up as a .90 carat stone but when the jeweler looked at it and measured the stone he said it was approximately .70 carats based on dimension (I know that cut can vary and make stones appear larger or smaller...but by .20??) It was supposed to be H color and it turns out it''s J but because it''s super flourescent it makes the stone appear whiter, and it''s SI3 rather than the VS2 that it was listed as. AHHHHH!!! Oh well...
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
Oh wow. This is why we tell newcomers to buy certified stones. Do you have the sales receipt with the supposed color and clarity written on it? I hope so, because I''d now pay for a real appraisal in order to demand a refund unless he''d like to be taken to court. Whatever you do, do not trade this stone in with this vendor!
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
I have the original "appraisal" done by the jeweler who sold it to us. It has all the information written on it. Is it still possible for me to confront the jeweler about this despite the fact that the ring is a little over 2 years old? I''m just so upset because I know my fiance paid a lot of money for it and to find out that he got ripped off is terrible.
 

ayala_jessica

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
292
Date: 2/10/2007 3:53:47 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Oh wow. This is why we tell newcomers to buy certified stones. Do you have the sales receipt with the supposed color and clarity written on it? I hope so, because I'd now pay for a real appraisal in order to demand a refund unless he'd like to be taken to court. Whatever you do, do not trade this stone in with this vendor!
Absolutely right. That jeweler is really not honest but if he was careless enough to write down all his gibberish then you got a case. You should send the ring to a reputable appraiser who will exactly grade your stone with all possible details etc.. and then you go back to the jeweler and confront him with his lies. Actually what he did and moreover all the swaying around he made about your possible upgrade shows he was totally aware that the stone didn't match his so called appraisal and of course he was not enthusiastic about taking it back for the price you paid ! I don't know about US law but in Switzerland it is called a fraud and it pertains to criminal law and the time limitation to stand up to your rights is much more than 2 years.

Anyway, first I wouldn't get into these legal time limitations but I would go straigth to the jeweler with the new appraisal and pressure him with a full refund without any condition. And don't buy anything anymore to him !!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
Fraud is fraud, so I think if you threaten to take the case to a lawyer if he does not refund your money, then he might be wise to give a refund. Otherwise, sue him. Seriously. People like this do not need to be staying in business to cheat other people. Whatever you do, if you go back in that store, do not take the original appraisal with you. Keep the original safe at home in case you need it. It just makes me mad for someone to take advantage of someone buying an engagement ring.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 2/10/2007 4:29:47 PM
Author: ayala_jessica

Date: 2/10/2007 3:53:47 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Oh wow. This is why we tell newcomers to buy certified stones. Do you have the sales receipt with the supposed color and clarity written on it? I hope so, because I''d now pay for a real appraisal in order to demand a refund unless he''d like to be taken to court. Whatever you do, do not trade this stone in with this vendor!
Absolutely right. That jeweler is really not honest but if he was careless enough to write down all his gibberish then you got a case. You should send the ring to a reputable appraiser who will exactly grade your stone with all possible details etc.. and then you go back to the jeweler and confront him with his lies. Actually what he did and moreover all the swaying around he made about your possible upgrade shows he was totally aware that the stone didn''t match his so called appraisal and of course he was not enthusiastic about taking it back for the price you paid ! I don''t know about US law but in Switzerland it is called a fraud and it pertains to criminal law and the time limitation to stand up to your rights is much more than 2 years.

Anyway, first I wouldn''t get into these legal time limitations but I would go straigth to the jeweler with the new appraisal and pressure him with a full refund without any condition. And don''t buy anything anymore to him !!
ITA with both. Stand your ground!
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
You need an independent appraisal done by a gemologist *not* a jeweler. You need and unbiased opinion and proper documentation of what the stone actually is if you are to take action. The center stone will probably have to be removed for a proper appraisal. Again, look at the resources tab, then appraisers, then your area.
 

JBunnie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
24
Here is the ring. Just wanted to get everyones opinion on it. Not the best picture, but actually the only one that has ever come out. Also, what would you guys suggest for wedding bands?

"/>
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
2,491
Date: 2/10/2007 4:50:07 PM
Author: kcoursolle
You need an independent appraisal done by a gemologist *not* a jeweler. You need and unbiased opinion and proper documentation of what the stone actually is if you are to take action. The center stone will probably have to be removed for a proper appraisal. Again, look at the resources tab, then appraisers, then your area.
I agree with everything except taking the stone out. If you do that, there may be no way of proving that the diamond is the one he set in the ring. I suppose you might not be able to prove it anyway, but if you take the diamond out and bring it back to him you surely can''t. If you take the diamond out of the head and then have it set back in again before taking it back to the jeweler the prongs are going to be weaker and may also show the wear of having the diamond unseated. Also making it more difficult to prove it''s the stone he sold you. Just a thought....

It looks really pretty in the setting. I would not necessarily trust another jeweler. If you call your insurance agent he can refer you to a local independent appraiser if there isn''t a Pricescope appraiser in your area. That person should be able to tell you if your diamond is way off from what the jeweler appraised it at.

Good luck!
 

Diamond*Dana

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
7,194
What a shame, I am sorry this thief ripped your fiance off
!
I agree with Lumpkin on not having it removed from the setting...could be a bad situation. I would definitely confront him on what your new findings are and go from there. I would demand a refund!
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,747

#1. Go to a real appraiser. The difference between a 0.90 VS2/H and a 0.70 SI3/J is a huge deal. You need to figure out what you actually have. Do not have it removed from the setting or in any way altered, at least not yet. Assuming that the appraiser agrees that there is a substantial difference, go to the jeweler and demand an explanation. Here are several customary rebuttals to this sort of thing along with a potential response.


a) That appraiser is an idiot. MY expert is much smarter and grading is a matter of opinion anyway. - OK, lets agree upon an expert. I nominate GIA. Let’s take the stone out right now and weigh it. Assuming it's 0.90cts, lets send it in to GIA for grading (www.gia.edu) and see what they say. If it comes out 0.90VS2/H, I’ll pay the labor to have it pulled and reset, the lab fees, the shipping fees and I’ll keep the stone. If it comes back lower than that, you pay the fees, keep the stone and give me a full refund. You can sell it to someone else. We can talk about trading it up after we resolve this issue.
b) That’s not the stone I sold you. Someone must have switched it in the last 2 years. - OK, I was afraid of that. Please put this in writing. Then call your insurance agent. This will probably be a valid claim if you’ve got it scheduled. He can expect a nasty call and possible legal action by the insurance company but this becomes their problem, not yours.
c) Get out of my store, see the ‘no refunds’ sign? -- Call JVC and the local BBB office file a complaint. Prepare to sue him (www.jvclegal.org, www.bbb.org)

Keep good notes, and make copies of everything.

#2. Read through that stack of paperwork he gave with the sale. Is there anything in there about the rules of the trade up policy? Are there any signs or advertising in the store that pertain to the trade up policy?

#3. Find another jeweler to make the wedding band. Don’t let this nonsense mess up your wedding. Custom making a fitting wedding band for that is not all that difficult and you don’t want to be doing further business with this store.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
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