Ummm.....is AGS now doing something really different....or only better?

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/25/2006 5:47:03 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Three primary thoughts...brought to you by...

a) one side, who thinks only direction observation makes any reliable sense
b) the other side, who thinks modeling is where it''s at
c) the guy in the middle, who is undecided

You forgot the D option.. Someone who likes both.

The helium/DC combo is the ultimate today in 3D modeling and I love it and the next version is going to be even better.
On the other hand the direct accessment tools; ASET, IS, H&A viewer rock.
A bit lower down is the B-scope then the rest of them under that.

The AGS modeling software is interesting but as long as its being used with sarin data I cant 100% get behind it.

I have often talked of filters and the AGS grading system is a filter that does filter out a lot of poor cut diamonds.

Whch brings me back to my point about the diamonds we most often discuss here

"In some ways we get a false picture here of what a AGS0 diamond is because the most familar ones from whiteflash, infinity, gog, niceice and others are in my opinion some of the best of the best of the AGS0s.
In the same way that the GIA graded gog diamonds are in my opinion some of the best GIA EX diamonds.
Neither is representative of AGS0 or GIA EX they are the cream of the crop."

Further I will ask....
Answer me this would the Infinity and WF ACA diamonds be any less quality diamonds if they had GIA paper?
Would the GOG classics be a better diamonds with AGS paper?
NO thats silly.. Buy the Diamond not the paper.....

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/25/2006 4:14:23 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 9/24/2006 12:53:10 AM
Author: strmrdr

Calling it a performance based system is marketing in my opinion.

And you are wrong in my opinion.

Wink

That''s kewl Wink I respectfully disagree.
I would love to further hear your thoughts on the matter if you have the time.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/25/2006 5:47:03 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Three primary thoughts...brought to you by...


a) one side, who thinks only direction observation makes any reliable sense

b) the other side, who thinks modeling is where it''s at

c) the guy in the middle, who is undecided


A)

Date: 9/25/2006 4:06:20 PM

Author: Wink

The AGS system, while acknowledging proportions, is using forward and backward ray tracing to determine the performance of a diamond and is performance based, NOT proportion based.

From the point of view of someone from Minnesota, this is no different than Dave Pilkey''s analysis, and the critical use of Flip-O-Rama, found in each and every Captain Underpants book. See the ninth point in this link from Wikipeda. You''ll see the direction of the pages, and that they really can go back and forth.


Anyway, and really...take princesses for example (seems on point)...for someone who could choose between an AGS0 with a more modest Gemex report, and an option from GIA, with a more robust Gemex report...even given the discussion here...who is dead certain, especially at a distance, which they''d prefer?


B)


From the point of view of someone who thinks that a diamond''s proportions can be very telling.....even though I personally still only see the continuity of relationship between proportions vs. 3D...I would like someone to make me feel like they''re passing a stone and just tell me that the representation of a diamond, based on 3 D modelling, is so good, with respect to the real thing, that you can just trust that that will tell you real well how it will perform. But, Wink, you can''t just say it. I need to see that you''ve passed a stone (or give me some kind of dynamic by which to understand this with you.)


C)


Short of (A) or (B)...I am mindful that the language used in particular by AGS above...


''Most importantly, it uses technology to analyze the cut’s impact on diamond’s overall performance...''


...is at least a bit like the safe and smart guy who can always understand the truth, even when visiting an island where the natives are always and only of two types...those who always lie and those who always tell the truth. (Extra points if you can repeat the question you have to ask so you will always have the truth).


AGS certainly analyzes the cut''s impact on the diamond''s overall performance. How descriptively it analyzes the diamond''s performance directly remains something of a question. Most of the experts here have only reinforced the question, from what I can see.


Further, I see that Garry and the cut group are more reserved with respect to their pronouncement making, and are not so ready to pass a stone.


Although it would appear I''m trying to be difficult...it''s only partly so. We mostly agree AGS is better. How much is really sort of the question.


For someone deciding between options from AGS and other labs, the question is reasonably pertinent.

I have read this three times, and am not at all sure what you are saying. I thought you were dissagreeing with me, then maybe agreeing with me and now I am quite sure I do not understand what you mean by pass a stone, although I tried to pass a kidney stone once. (It was NOT fun.)

It is late, and I am tired. All I can tell you for sure is that this is performance based, not proportion based. Some of the most brilliant light scientists in the world have worked on the math and they have measured the results in ways that I do not begin to understand, nor am I capable of explaining them.

I can tell you that after creating a ray trace of an incredible square emerald cut with a 45% table the AGS was able to get an Indian firm to cut them a sample and the results were both astounding and exactly as predicted. The picture has been published here before, but I have no idea how to find it.

Wink, going to bed now.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 9/26/2006 12:40:09 AM
Author: Wink

I have read this three times, and am not at all sure what you are saying. I thought you were dissagreeing with me, then maybe agreeing with me and now I am quite sure I do not understand what you mean by pass a stone, although I tried to pass a kidney stone once. (It was NOT fun.)
I think we disciovered a new risk of participating here on Pricescope - Wink you have been Ira''d.
It is late, and I am tired. All I can tell you for sure is that this is performance based, not proportion based. Some of the most brilliant light scientists in the world have worked on the math and they have measured the results in ways that I do not begin to understand, nor am I capable of explaining them. GIA also used some brilliant scientists Wink - but so far outside of GIA there has not been a lot of acclaim for their work.

AGS have done a great job, but they have not finished (e.g. no scintillation solution yet) and they have a very slow and cumbersome approach that takes about a year per stone - so new cuts are always going to be a problem.
So it is a partial solution that has been well marketed in my opinion Wink.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 9/26/2006 12:13:04 AM
Author: strmrdr



Whch brings me back to my point about the diamonds we most often discuss here

''In some ways we get a false picture here of what a AGS0 diamond is because the most familar ones from whiteflash, infinity, gog, niceice and others are in my opinion some of the best of the best of the AGS0s.
In the same way that the GIA graded gog diamonds are in my opinion some of the best GIA EX diamonds.
Neither is representative of AGS0 or GIA EX they are the cream of the crop.''

Further I will ask....
Answer me this would the Infinity and WF ACA diamonds be any less quality diamonds if they had GIA paper?
Would the GOG classics be a better diamonds with AGS paper?

NO thats silly.. Buy the Diamond not the paper.....

May I ask you, as a consumer, the question in another way? If we would offer our stones for sale, without any grading report but our in-house report, would you still buy it?

One step further, would many consumers still buy them?

Just curious,

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 9/26/2006 12:55:45 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

AGS have done a great job, but they have not finished (e.g. no scintillation solution yet) and they have a very slow and cumbersome approach that takes about a year per stone - so new cuts are always going to be a problem.
So it is a partial solution that has been well marketed in my opinion Wink.

Maybe, we can call it a good work-in-progress, that can only get better. I, for one, am looking forward to further refinement.

However, if you say that it is well marketed, I hope that it will even be better marketed in the near future

. And if other systems will offer even better information on cut-quality and light performance, I hope that these will also be very well marketed.

Live long,

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/26/2006 11:15:48 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 9/26/2006 12:13:04 AM
Author: strmrdr




Whch brings me back to my point about the diamonds we most often discuss here

''In some ways we get a false picture here of what a AGS0 diamond is because the most familar ones from whiteflash, infinity, gog, niceice and others are in my opinion some of the best of the best of the AGS0s.
In the same way that the GIA graded gog diamonds are in my opinion some of the best GIA EX diamonds.
Neither is representative of AGS0 or GIA EX they are the cream of the crop.''

Further I will ask....
Answer me this would the Infinity and WF ACA diamonds be any less quality diamonds if they had GIA paper?
Would the GOG classics be a better diamonds with AGS paper?

NO thats silly.. Buy the Diamond not the paper.....

May I ask you, as a consumer, the question in another way? If we would offer our stones for sale, without any grading report but our in-house report, would you still buy it?

One step further, would many consumers still buy them?

Just curious,

From you Yes, Id send it off to Richard S. for paperwork to keep things kewl with the insurance company.


Not for the premium you currently get no, there are too many less than honorable diamond sellers.
In todays market diamonds without a lab report just arent a good idea. They wouldnt likely have the years to get too know you like I have.

When I buy as I have from Gary, Wink, and Jon, I am buying into the person as much as im buying a stone.
They are a large part of the reason im getting that one.
It would be the same buying one of your diamonds.
I didnt buy a stone online I bought it from Gary, Wink and Jon.
That is more important to me than if one or the other of GIA or AGS graded it.

That is the kewlest thing about PS that I can do that! :}

hmmm that brings me too... Buy the diamond and shop the vendor not the paper and the location.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Thank you for the enormous compliment, Storm.

It reminds me of the story of a famous restaurant in Antwerp. They offered such exquisite food and a fantastic dining experience, that they had gained two Michelin-stars, and were on their way to gain a third one.

Then, the owner changed his strategy. The quality of the food remained the same, but part of the frills were reduced, like the extravagant collection of wines. Also, the number of tables was doubled, and a system was introduced in which the tables were used twice per evening. Because of this, the restaurant lost its stars, but eating there got a lot less expensive, and the owner actually started to turn a profit.

For those planning to visit Antwerp, make sure to go to the restaurant ''Sir Anthony Van Dijck'', and for those who already dined there, they will definitely think back upon the fantastic evening there.

Sorry, got side-tracked.

Live long,

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/26/2006 11:47:17 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 9/26/2006 11:15:48 AM

Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 9/26/2006 12:13:04 AM

Author: strmrdr






Whch brings me back to my point about the diamonds we most often discuss here


''In some ways we get a false picture here of what a AGS0 diamond is because the most familar ones from whiteflash, infinity, gog, niceice and others are in my opinion some of the best of the best of the AGS0s.

In the same way that the GIA graded gog diamonds are in my opinion some of the best GIA EX diamonds.

Neither is representative of AGS0 or GIA EX they are the cream of the crop.''


Further I will ask....

Answer me this would the Infinity and WF ACA diamonds be any less quality diamonds if they had GIA paper?

Would the GOG classics be a better diamonds with AGS paper?

NO thats silly.. Buy the Diamond not the paper.....

May I ask you, as a consumer, the question in another way? If we would offer our stones for sale, without any grading report but our in-house report, would you still buy it?


One step further, would many consumers still buy them?


Just curious,

From you Yes, Id send it off to Richard S. for paperwork to keep things kewl with the insurance company.



Not for the premium you currently get no, there are too many less than honorable diamond sellers.

In todays market diamonds without a lab report just arent a good idea. They wouldnt likely have the years to get too know you like I have.


When I buy as I have from Gary, Wink, and Jon, I am buying into the person as much as im buying a stone.

They are a large part of the reason im getting that one.

It would be the same buying one of your diamonds.

I didnt buy a stone online I bought it from Gary, Wink and Jon.

That is more important to me than if one or the other of GIA or AGS graded it.


That is the kewlest thing about PS that I can do that! :}


hmmm that brings me too... Buy the diamond and shop the vendor not the paper and the location.

Storm,

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words. I know how incredibly particular you are and I appreciate being included in your list.

Wink