UK Vendors?

[Californiadreaming]

Hi - I went to Smith & Green when I went to Hatton Garden two weeks ago! They seemed great and were so helpful. However the price still comes in so much higher than buying from James Allen or GOG.

They quoted me £5400 all in for an F .90 VVS and platinum setting (stone not yet sourced). If I buy the F .90 VS1 stone I like from GOG, it will cost me £4000 all in including setting and tax. (I know it's slightly nuts comparing two arbitrary stones of same size and colour when they can be so different in look).

I totally know what you mean about the risks and costs of buying from America, trust me I am very nervous!

A friend strongly recommended Blue Nile UK site as the prices are really similar to US prices (same diamond stocks I believe?) but I don't want to buy blind.

And Good Old Gold do show you great quality pics, videos, assets.

However it is frankly hilarious that I am holding myself up as any kind of expert on either choosing or purchasing diamonds - I am a complete dunce truth be told!

 

[pyramid]

GIA XXX covers a wide area of cut parameters which Pricescopers narrow down to what was liked on this board before GIA did their cut study and started grading cut. AGS which WF uses have had cut grades for years. If you are comparing to A Cut Above diamonds at WF those are all cut for hearts and arrows which is graded by them for excellence in the same way the Japanese did who began the 8 cut design.

The thing to note is GIA XXX are not all the same and this is why this board uses cut angles and asset scope to narrow down to the better ones.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Sorry that reply was to diamond hoarder!

 

[pyramid]

Hi - I went to Smith & Green when I went to Hatton Garden two weeks ago! They seemed great and were so helpful. However the price still comes in so much higher than buying from James Allen or GOG.

They quoted me £5400 all in for an F .90 VVS and platinum setting (stone not yet sourced). If I buy the F .90 VS1 stone I like from GOG, it will cost me £4000 all in including setting and tax. (I know it's slightly nuts comparing two arbitrary stones of same size and colour when they can be so different in look).

I totally know what you mean about the risks and costs of buying from America, trust me I am very nervous!

A friend strongly recommended Blue Nile UK site as the prices are really similar to US prices (same diamond stocks I believe?) but I don't want to buy blind.

And Good Old Gold do show you great quality pics, videos, assets.

However it is frankly hilarious that I am holding myself up as any kind of expert on either choosing or purchasing diamonds - I am a complete dunce truth be told!

VVS1 is two clarity grades higher than VS1 though.

 

[decisively_unsure]

GIA XXX covers a wide area of cut parameters which Pricescopers narrow down to what was liked on this board before GIA did their cut study and started grading cut. AGS which WF uses have had cut grades for years. If you are comparing to A Cut Above diamonds at WF those are all cut for hearts and arrows which is graded by them for excellence in the same way the Japanese did who began the 8 cut design.

The thing to note is GIA XXX are not all the same and this is why this board uses cut angles and asset scope to narrow down to the better ones.

Not everyone likes hearts & arrows though. There's a reason GIA XXX aren't all the same, it's because people have different tastes. I find the 'identical' idealscope images of 'super ideals' quite boring to be honest. In real life vs. scopes & ASET there is a world of difference out there. Some non-ideal combos can be utterly mind-blowing and full of personality. This is a pretty good thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/return-of-the-steep-deep.130752/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/return-of-the-steep-deep.130752/[/URL]

In any case, we're veering off topic now, this thread was about UK vendors.

 

[dk168]

How about going over to Amsterdam and seek the products and services of Rob van Beurden's Diamond House: http://www.diamondhouse.be/??

I found him via searching in PS back in 2004 when I decided to buy myself an EC diamond to celebrate my 40th birthday.

I gave Rub a budget range, he brought in 3 stones for me to inspect/try on the hand, very patient, taught me how to use a loupe properly to locate the VS1 imperfection in my chosen diamond, never pushy, and his lady assistant who looked after me was lovely too.

Highly recommended.

DK

 

[OoohShiny]

Ooohshiny, here on PS recommends Durrant's of London.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/crafted-by-infinity-0-67ct-f-vvs2.202616/page-3#post-3757947#p3757947']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/crafted-by-infinity-0-67ct-f-vvs2.202616/page-3#post-3757947#p3757947[/URL]

Thanks for posting this, FI, saved me posting to do so!

As I feel is the case with most decent UK vendors, I think they are not so bothered about according to 'perfect' AGS cut numbers on MRBs (I still think most UK jewellers will roll their eyes at customers walking in with an ASETscope and an IdealScope 'wot they bought off the internet to find the bestest diamonds', unfortunately ) but are instead creating jewellery with stones that look great, even if they are not AGS000 or GIA XXX.

They were happy to work with the CBI stone I had bought, though, and the craftsmanship on the platinum ring itself is excellent and also reasonably priced for a central London outfit, so on that basis I would still recommend them.

mousey - my brother bought his fiancee's ring from DiamondGeezer. The ring is fabulous and he was very impressed with the service. The only reason I would not go that route is that price is still better from American vendors, plus I have a problem with the brand name! I know I know, it is ridiculous and should be completely irrelevant but it just puts me off!!

I completely agree. I put my budget in and was underwhelmed by the offerings compared to what I've bought from Whiteflash (also taking Tax into account). The name would also put me off.

Let's take a quick look:

0.90ct D / VVS2 from Whiteflash = $8,417 dollars / £5358.25 pounds.
$695 for a basic platinum setting from Whiteflash = $674 dollars / £429 pounds

Total = £5,787

Total landed cost (duty & VAT) = £6944.40

...this is £944 more than I spent at Cool Diamonds for the same ring.

My girlfriend's is a GIA triple excellent, no fluorescence. Thus, I think my comparison was fair.

Don't get me wrong there are some awesome US deals out there, but personally I like seeing stones in person, and there isn't always a gulf in price between UK and USA stones.

As others have already posted, and as you yourself have noted, a stone conforming with a set of numbers does not necessarily guarantee someone will think it's beautiful, and a stone that is beautiful won't necessarily conform to a set of numbers, but I would put forward the argument that a standardised set of cut angles that is shown to have the best possible light return will mean that the stone performs better more of the time across a wider range of viewing environments. That is not to say that some other stones won't look amazing in candlelight, or others in spotlights, but they might not have such good light return all the time.

Personally speaking, I chose to go for a proprietary cut that, yes, is standardised and 'boring' but it performs amazingly in virtually all lighting environments - even in a darkened room with no point-source lighting, it is still clearly white!

As a noob with no previous buying experience, and not wishing to lay myself open to potentially dubious sales techniques by vendors wanting to offload less-than-ideal (with and without a capital 'I') stones, the safety of buying from a PS-approved vendor (with a full set of paperwork evidencing the stone's quality and light performance) was the most attractive option to me, and I would recommend it to fellow noobs. Much like buying a car, one has the impression there are a lot of sharks out there, so vendors with extensive history and an online reputation they don't wish to lose are a 'safe bet'.

I was very happy with the service I received buying online, and the quality of the stone blows everything else I've seen locally or in London out of the water - I've spent quite a few hours now browsing windows and visiting vendors in Hatton Garden, before and after buying, and perhaps only one or two stones have had a similar 'wow' factor, and they were a large c.4ct OEC and an antique Asscher that came into the window and went again very quickly!

Overall, for the amount I spent to get a custom-design platinum ring with an AGS000 cut, F VVS2 stone, all I've seen locally in a similar size that might be comparable are 'Hearts on Fire' and 'Leo' cut stones that are F-G VS2 at the very best, and generally G-H SI stones, so I have saved a substantial amount of money compared to how much I would have spent to get the specs I have.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the proprietary cuts from US vendors as a 'safe' way to ensure a high quality outcome with none of the risk of getting stung by a potentially unscrupulous local vendor at worst, or getting sold a poor-performing overpriced stone by an uneducated 'customer service assistant' that works weekends as a second job at best.

How about going over to Amsterdam and seek the products and services of Rob van Beurden's Diamond House: http://www.diamondhouse.be/????

I found him via searching in PS back in 2004 when I decided to buy myself an EC diamond to celebrate my 40th birthday.

I gave Rub a budget range, he brought in 3 stones for me to inspect/try on the hand, very patient, taught me how to use a loupe properly to locate the VS1 imperfection in my chosen diamond, never pushy, and his lady assistant who looked after me was lovely too.

Highly recommended.

DK

Is it Belgium where that large diamond district is, where CBI has its head office?? Or am I thinking of Amsterdam?!

 

[pyramid]

GIA XXX covers a wide area of cut parameters which Pricescopers narrow down to what was liked on this board before GIA did their cut study and started grading cut. AGS which WF uses have had cut grades for years. If you are comparing to A Cut Above diamonds at WF those are all cut for hearts and arrows which is graded by them for excellence in the same way the Japanese did who began the 8 cut design.

The thing to note is GIA XXX are not all the same and this is why this board uses cut angles and asset scope to narrow down to the better ones.

Not everyone likes hearts & arrows though. There's a reason GIA XXX aren't all the same, it's because people have different tastes. I find the 'identical' idealscope images of 'super ideals' quite boring to be honest. In real life vs. scopes & ASET there is a world of difference out there. Some non-ideal combos can be utterly mind-blowing and full of personality. This is a pretty good thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/return-of-the-steep-deep.130752/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/return-of-the-steep-deep.130752/[/URL]

In any case, we're veering off topic now, this thread was about UK vendors.

Yes, it is about UK Vendors but you are saying you saved money with a UK vendor but were not comparing diamonds of the same kind when you said it was less than Whiteflash. AGS reports cost more than GIA and Hearts and Arrows and Super Ideal diamonds cost more so if Whiteflash cut a diamond like yours it would be sold for less than yours probably - unless you compared their virtual inventory and not A Cut Above (which has ray tracing proof of ideal light performance from AGS software obtained from a scan of the actual diamond.)

I am sure your diamond is beautiful, GIA XXX is as good in business terms and GIA sets the standard.

I have ideal cut and also small non certificate diamonds of unknown angles and they are all beautiful to me, think the cut on them is not bad though so I was lucky. Most people don't know or care about this including jewellers who would scoff at internet and asset scope partly because some are old school and partly because some know about cut but are competing with the internet large databases which can't be easy. So I prefer both local jewellers and internet.

 

[mousey]

The US is definitely cheaper if you are in the US. But ordering in might not be such a difference to diamond geezer. Sales tax etc was 20 - 25 percent when I last checked. Don't be fooled by blue Nile uk either - their stones already had this priced in. I am no expert but I have been in your position a couple of times. My findings were if you want a professional eye in something and avoid the fear of buying blind on Internet then diamond geezer was cheapest (best if call him with a specific diamond and ask him how much he would charge you to get it in- much better price than looking at his list). OR go to the U.S. - depending on your budget the 25 percent could buy you a return ticket and hotel. I have to say, although I am happy with the triple x earrings, my ering (Brian Gavin blue) and wring (Brian Gavin yogo) are a league apart. I get comments all the time over here about how amazing they are. I had a jeweller in a high end shop talk to me about what a showstopper it is. I mean, the ering ( although terribly special to me) is prob nothing special by ps standards, but in the UK the cutting does really stand out. I couldn't speak more highly of Brian Gavin - my husband says it was the perfect buying experience.

 

[OoohShiny]

The US is definitely cheaper if you are in the US. But ordering in might not be such a difference to diamond geezer. Sales tax etc was 20 - 25 percent when I last checked. Don't be fooled by blue Nile uk either - their stones already had this priced in. I am no expert but I have been in your position a couple of times. My findings were if you want a professional eye in something and avoid the fear of buying blind on Internet then diamond geezer was cheapest (best if call him with a specific diamond and ask him how much he would charge you to get it in- much better price than looking at his list). OR go to the U.S. - depending on your budget the 25 percent could buy you a return ticket and hotel. I have to say, although I am happy with the triple x earrings, my ering (Brian Gavin blue) and wring (Brian Gavin yogo) are a league apart. I get comments all the time over here about how amazing they are. I had a jeweller in a high end shop talk to me about what a showstopper it is. I mean, the ering ( although terribly special to me) is prob nothing special by ps standards, but in the UK the cutting does really stand out. I couldn't speak more highly of Brian Gavin - my husband says it was the perfect buying experience.

From what I can recall, importing loose stones incurs VAT on top (currently 20%) and if the stone is set into a ring, there is also a 2.5% Import Tax added (to the base price as imported, I believe.)


Don't forget as well - currency exchange rates can also play in our favour in the UK.

For example, if you have £5k to spend on a stone, right now that would get you ~$7900, with £1/$1.58-ish. (Trader market rates differing from consumer market rates, of course.)

If you had been buying in early July last year, when it was peaking around £1/$1.70, you would have had $8500 to spend.

If you had been buying in April this year, when the exchange rate bottomed out at ~£1/$1.45, you would only have had $7250 to spend, $1250 less than when exchange rates were at the recent best.

(data from http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y)

The GBP/USD exchange rate is currently trending upwards and is back around its long term average since the 2008 market crash (http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y) but whether it will settle again at this average or change up/down due to the China stock market issues at the moment, no-one can know for sure (although I bet there is a lot of money tied up in buy/sell future options!)

Now appears to be a perfectly good time to buy, going from long term averages.


(Please note that I am not a financial advisor, the above should not be taken as financial advice, and caveat emptor!)

 

[mousey]

Don't forget as well - currency exchange rates can also play in our favour in the UK.

True - hadn't thought about that. I presume though some of that would be priced in? Best thing to do is compare using sterling what you can buy in the UK vrs what you can buy with sterling (given XE rates and fees) in US. I know I am probably biased, but I think you get better cut stones in the US than you would in almost all UK jewellers. I also think the customer service from jewelers like Brian Gavin is incredible.

Actually - just seen this.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/london-engagement-rings-uk-loose-diamonds-and-diamond-jewelry-online/

I wonder what that's about? Anyone know? Does it mean they are selling in the UK now? Or just that they like London a lot?

 

[craiguk]

The US is definitely cheaper if you are in the US. But ordering in might not be such a difference to diamond geezer. Sales tax etc was 20 - 25 percent when I last checked. Don't be fooled by blue Nile uk either - their stones already had this priced in. I am no expert but I have been in your position a couple of times. My findings were if you want a professional eye in something and avoid the fear of buying blind on Internet then diamond geezer was cheapest (best if call him with a specific diamond and ask him how much he would charge you to get it in- much better price than looking at his list). OR go to the U.S. - depending on your budget the 25 percent could buy you a return ticket and hotel. I have to say, although I am happy with the triple x earrings, my ering (Brian Gavin blue) and wring (Brian Gavin yogo) are a league apart. I get comments all the time over here about how amazing they are. I had a jeweller in a high end shop talk to me about what a showstopper it is. I mean, the ering ( although terribly special to me) is prob nothing special by ps standards, but in the UK the cutting does really stand out. I couldn't speak more highly of Brian Gavin - my husband says it was the perfect buying experience.

It's a dangerous game banking on not being picked up by HM Customs and Excise in my view and not something I'd be comfortable doing personally. The chances of getting caught may be slim but you never know. You still pay VAT in the UK on purchases anyway.

I thought there were also issues with valuations on stones / rings not properly imported too (although don't quote me on that - I think I just read it somewhere).

My view was that I'm only doing this proposal once and I needed the ring to be guaranteed 'across the room shiny'. I didn't have the time or inclination to travel to London (3 - 4 hrs away), let alone the US, primarily because it would have aroused suspicion from the other half. WF seemed my best bet and worked out cheaper than an equivalent Uk sourced H&A stone. The setting price was also comparative with quotes I got in the UK - in fact to the pound the same price incl. customs.

Either way though people can make good cases for and against buying from US or UK. I just happened to want a WF stone and setting so I was willing to pay whatever that cost.

 

[craiguk]

Don't forget as well - currency exchange rates can also play in our favour in the UK.

True - hadn't thought about that. I presume though some of that would be priced in? Best thing to do is compare using sterling what you can buy in the UK vrs what you can buy with sterling (given XE rates and fees) in US. I know I am probably biased, but I think you get better cut stones in the US than you would in almost all UK jewellers. I also think the customer service from jewelers like Brian Gavin is incredible.

Actually - just seen this.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/london-engagement-rings-uk-loose-diamonds-and-diamond-jewelry-online/

I wonder what that's about? Anyone know? Does it mean they are selling in the UK now? Or just that they like London a lot?

To me it just reads that you can buy the stones in if you are UK based.

 

[OoohShiny]

Don't forget as well - currency exchange rates can also play in our favour in the UK.

True - hadn't thought about that. I presume though some of that would be priced in? Best thing to do is compare using sterling what you can buy in the UK vrs what you can buy with sterling (given XE rates and fees) in US. I know I am probably biased, but I think you get better cut stones in the US than you would in almost all UK jewellers. I also think the customer service from jewelers like Brian Gavin is incredible.

Actually - just seen this.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/london-engagement-rings-uk-loose-diamonds-and-diamond-jewelry-online/

I wonder what that's about? Anyone know? Does it mean they are selling in the UK now? Or just that they like London a lot?

To me it just reads that you can buy the stones in if you are UK based.

Ok, so who's going to tell them that Big Ben is not the name of the clock that Big Ben is actually hung in?

 

[decisively_unsure]

It looks like a landing page to me so that BGD can rank for search terms in Google etc. when people are looking for diamonds in London.