UK Princess cut solitaire search...

[ukprincess81]

Hi all,

I appreciate any help you experts can provide.. I have been using this forum and the net for many months trying to learn as much as possible before trying to buy our "perfect" princess cut stone for an engagement ring. I have tried using a UK-based seller but i found that they didnt really find anything close to my specifications - and was even told i was being "too fussy" and that i should compromise somewhere. With that in mind, i have compromised slightly in that i wont find exactly 100% the perfect stone, but i am trying my hardest to get as close as possible!!!

As said, im UK based (London) so i appreciate GOG and WF are good sites but i really want to try and get something in the UK so that i can view/return if need be in a short turnaround. So i have been searching with Bluenile.

I would really like to know what people think of the specs below, these are 3 stones i picked from BN. The customer service team told me these were all too deep even though they are within the premium cut scale on AGA (so now im confused...!). Like i said any help appreciated!!

#1
Depth %: 73.3%
Table %: 69%
Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Slightly thick to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.93 x 5.66 x 4.15 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.05

#2
Depth %: 74.3%
Table %: 69%
Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to very thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.96 x 5.67 x 4.21 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.05

#3
Depth %: 73.2%
Table %: 70%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Slightly thick to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.83 x 5.67 x 4.15 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.03

Are we at least on the right track? Im trying to keep the depth low 70s with the table 3-5% lower than that.

Thanks

 

[Lorelei]

Definitely contact Dr Indira Marchant, she is lovely and an expert who posts here!

www.bestdiamonds.co.uk you can contact her on this website, she has some beautiful diamonds and is passionate about cut quality, so see what she can find for you.

As to the Princess you have picked, you can't judge them by the numbers, photos and ASET images are essential, and BN do not offer such services to the best of my knowledge. The above may be attractive diamonds but there is no way to really tell unfortunately by a few numbers. Also depth does not influence face up spread the same way it does with rounds, Princess can hold weight in other areas, so depth isn't a reliable indicator. You can use this chart as a guide only, but don't get too hung up on the numbers, use as a guide only.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc1.asp

Also you could consider AGS0 cut grade Princess which Indira might stock, that would help you find a well cut Princess more easily.

 

[ukprincess81]

Hi, thanks for the comments.. I have had some correspondance with Indira before (and agree she was very helpful) but the diamonds she could provide were out of our price range in comparison to the stones we could get from BN. Hence having to rely a bit on numbers as like you said, they dont offer photos etc. I do have an aset scope at home, so my plan was to order from BN and check it at home myself. This isnt ideal, but the BN customer services dont really offer much of a service!! They seem to know about as much as me!

I have been using the page on PS as you provided which has given me most of my help up until now. However im now at the business end of the deal and am looking to secure a stone after almost a year of looking (and im now getting quite downhearted!). Im basically looking for help but keep getting conflicting info from sellers online!

Does anyone have any positive feedback about QualityDiamonds.co.uk????

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 8:43:12 AM
Author: ukprincess81
Hi, thanks for the comments.. I have had some correspondance with Indira before (and agree she was very helpful) but the diamonds she could provide were out of our price range in comparison to the stones we could get from BN. Hence having to rely a bit on numbers as like you said, they dont offer photos etc. I do have an aset scope at home, so my plan was to order from BN and check it at home myself. This isnt ideal, but the BN customer services dont really offer much of a service!! They seem to know about as much as me!

I have been using the page on PS as you provided which has given me most of my help up until now. However im now at the business end of the deal and am looking to secure a stone after almost a year of looking (and im now getting quite downhearted!). Im basically looking for help but keep getting conflicting info from sellers online!

Does anyone have any positive feedback about QualityDiamonds.co.uk????

I am sorry it is proving so challenging! The thing is with the diamonds you posted, it could go either way - the numbers could belong to some very pretty stones, or they may not be! I wish BN would provide more info. However they do have a good return policy, so as you have your own ASET scope ( you HAVE been doing your homework!) then although it isn't an ideal scenario, it could work. What are the colours and clarities of these diamonds? If you could find an ASG0 Princess then that would take some of the guesswork out of it.

I haven't heard of qualitydiamonds to be able to help you there.

 

[ukprincess81]

I took the advice from PS and bought it from Australia, apparently it will be a helpful piece of kit altho i am yet to get use from it as i havent had a stone to use it on yet!!

Sorry my mistake, details are:

1. D VS2 (one small feather centre table)
2. F VS1
3. G VVS2

The reports on the second two show nothing to worry me about (its silly but if i know its there it will bother me) theyre mostly clean.

I understand what you are saying tho. I guess we have to either take a chance, or keep looking?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 9:09:04 AM
Author: ukprincess81
I took the advice from PS and bought it from Australia, apparently it will be a helpful piece of kit altho i am yet to get use from it as i havent had a stone to use it on yet!!

Sorry my mistake, details are:

1. D VS2 (one small feather centre table)
2. F VS1
3. G VVS2

The reports on the second two show nothing to worry me about (its silly but if i know its there it will bother me) theyre mostly clean.

I understand what you are saying tho. I guess we have to either take a chance, or keep looking?

Unless you really want colourless and VVS, you could broaden the options and consider G or H and VS if that is mindclean to you, that might help. If I was in your position, I would try to see if there is a vendor here who can sell AGS0 cut grade Princess as that could be an easier way of getting a well cut diamond, otherwise you are really buying blind unless you can see the diamonds.

I think these are some of BN's better cut stones, it might be an idea to take a look at these ones, the Signature Ideals.
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/diamond_search.asp?pt=sig&pst=pr&filter_id=0

 

[stone-cold11]

Agree with Lorelei, the only sure way with BN is to go for the AGS0 graded diamonds they have. What kind of size stone are you looking for anyway?

 

[stone-cold11]

http://www.bluenile.com/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-h-color-vs1-clarity_LD01332755?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

This is a AGS0 stone 1c, but H VS1, slight smaller than what you are looking for. Is that a problem? Looksing like all the higher color grades are gone in the 1 - 2 c range. There are a few in the I range that are closer to the size you are looking for though.

UK link
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-h-colour-vs1-clarity_LD01332755?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

 

[stone-cold11]

http://www.bluenile.com/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-i-color-vs1-clarity_LD01332453?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0


Here is a 1.21c I VS1 Stone. Not sure if you are willing to take the color grade, but this is also a AGS0 stone.

Good Luck.

UK link to the same item
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-i-colour-vs1-clarity_LD01332453?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

 

[ukprincess81]

I think i will end up buying blind tbh.. BN do have a good return policy and my only other option is a UK based company who can offer a selection for you to view. I have tried these twice in the past (these are the people who said i was too fussy!) but my gut reaction wasnt sure of them.

Budget is £4k for stone, and we are looking for 1.1ct

The stones i quoted earlier was 1.10, 1.11 and 1.15

 

[ukprincess81]

Our specs are:

D-G
VS clarity
1.1 or bigger
L/W up to 1.05
No fluor
Pol/Symm Very Good or Excellent

 

[stone-cold11]

http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01368440?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

Signature Ideal cut, should be good performer. Probably slightly above your budget after VAT. Everything else within your specs.

 

[ukprincess81]

Thanks for you looking this is really nice of you.
Shouldnt i be looking for a table % smaller than depth though?

 

[stone-cold11]

Theoretically, yes. But GCAL and AGS supposedly grade their princess-cut by optical performance so although these may not be in the traditional ideal dimensions, they should perform the best.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 9:46:34 AM
Author: ukprincess81
Thanks for you looking this is really nice of you.
Shouldnt i be looking for a table % smaller than depth though?

That is recommended, however other factors can come into play and that isn't a guarantee of a well cut diamond. But yes, if you are going by numbers initially and that is all you have to go on, look at some with table < depth for starters. But there may be exceptions.

 

[ukprincess81]

Argh.. sometimes i think its better to buy these things without knowing too much. At least you are obliviously happy with the ring regardless!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 9/25/2008 9:40:23 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01368440?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

Signature Ideal cut, should be good performer. Probably slightly above your budget after VAT. Everything else within your specs.

Sorry to interfere here, but in fancy shapes, it is totally unclear what BN''s classifications are for ''Signature Ideal''. The choice is definitely funky, since last time I checked, AGS-0''s were not listed as ''Signature Ideal''.

As for the GCAL-assessment, the president of GCAL tried to explain it last week in another thread here, but when asked for some more in-depth information, he suddenly stopped replying. Their light performance assessment as he explained it did not sound as reliable, and I had the impression that it was only used on rounds, and not on fancy shapes. Someone will have to confirm this last point, though.

Live long,

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 9:54:42 AM
Author: ukprincess81

Argh.. sometimes i think its better to buy these things without knowing too much. At least you are obliviously happy with the ring regardless!

I know it is difficult, the normal procedure used here for buying Princess goes something like this. Many work with vendors who have in house stones and have the analysis done such as photos, ASET, Idealscope etc etc and you can choose from there. You then contact the vendor who pulls the diamond and checks it through with you via phone or email, you discuss ' eyecleanliness' and other factors, the personality of the diamond and settings etc then a decision is made to purchase or not. So it is rather more challenging when we don't have this assistance with the images etc to be able to make an informed choice. Again an AGS0 cut grade would remove some of the guesswork.

 

[stone-cold11]

Hahah, true until you accidently bump into this forum or some PSers with an ideal cut diamond...

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 9/25/2008 9:58:53 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 9/25/2008 9:40:23 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01368440?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0


Signature Ideal cut, should be good performer. Probably slightly above your budget after VAT. Everything else within your specs.

Sorry to interfere here, but in fancy shapes, it is totally unclear what BN's classifications are for 'Signature Ideal'. The choice is definitely funky, since last time I checked, AGS-0's were not listed as 'Signature Ideal'.


As for the GCAL-assessment, the president of GCAL tried to explain it last week in another thread here, but when asked for some more in-depth information, he suddenly stopped replying. Their light performance assessment as he explained it did not sound as reliable, and I had the impression that it was only used on rounds, and not on fancy shapes. Someone will have to confirm this last point, though.


Live long,

I know, that is why I used a should as a qualifier... I was one of the poster questioning the president of GCAL. But without further information on the purchase, BN does not provide IS or ASET or even a photo of the stone, it is the surer way to go for the princess cut, IMO.

 

[ukprincess81]

I understand most comments on here seem a little apposed to BN to say the least! However with buying in the UK and not wanting to be fleeced in Hatton Garden (!) im a little cornered for where to buy. I do like the return policy its just the lack of photographic information and that their customer services dont seem to give you the type of help i expected (ie pull a stone and examine over the phone for you). The email correspondance has just rubbished my attempts and offered alternative stones which are horrible!!

Basically of the three i picked, going on numbers alone, do any of these flag up any problems??

http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-colour-vs1-clarity_LD01243600?filter_id=0
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-d-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01340631?filter_id=0
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-g-colour-vvs2-clarity_LD01373558?filter_id=0

(Listed in choice of preference). Also, these are up to 1.05 L/W which is only going to be marginal isnt it? I really dont want a rectangular stone.

Thanks guys

 

[stone-cold11]

F VS1 stone has a thicker than ideal girdle that's all.

Nothing else that I can see except the ratio. How are you going to mount it? If on a prong, and the points of the stone are in the 'compass' direction, it will look a little off on close inspection. If it is inline with the ring shank, then the L/W ratio should not be obvious.

 

[ukprincess81]

It will be in chevron claws inline with the shank. Ive read anything up to 0.3 mm could not matter as this is the thickness of 3-sheets of A4.
Setting roughly like attached.

 

[stone-cold11]

Then the L/W ratio should not matter in that setup.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 10:06:31 AM
Author: ukprincess81
I understand most comments on here seem a little apposed to BN to say the least! However with buying in the UK and not wanting to be fleeced in Hatton Garden (!) im a little cornered for where to buy. I do like the return policy its just the lack of photographic information and that their customer services dont seem to give you the type of help i expected (ie pull a stone and examine over the phone for you). The email correspondance has just rubbished my attempts and offered alternative stones which are horrible!!

Basically of the three i picked, going on numbers alone, do any of these flag up any problems??

http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-f-colour-vs1-clarity_LD01243600?filter_id=0
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-d-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01340631?filter_id=0
http://www.bluenile.co.uk/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-g-colour-vvs2-clarity_LD01373558?filter_id=0

(Listed in choice of preference). Also, these are up to 1.05 L/W which is only going to be marginal isnt it? I really dont want a rectangular stone.

Thanks guys

We are not opposed to BN, the trouble is fancy shapes can't be judged by depth and table or a few more numbers even, photos and other images are essential to be able to make an informed choice and BN do not offer such services to the best of my knowledge - I really wish they did.

 

[ukprincess81]

So do i, i would have made the past 10 months more easy! Lol.
Anyway your help has been great i appreciate all the advice. I have contacted BN again and they have told me all 3 are within their signature range so should be lovely stones.. I suppose i can only take a plunge, thank god for a good return policy!!

 

[John P]

Hi UKPrincess. I was looking at your thread and thought I’d chime in since I had some time to burn (that is dangerous, since I tend to be a little…uh…wordy!). Also, since I am in Antwerp right now (instead of Texas) I feel a kinship to you European posters.

'clink'

First, I wanted to vouch for the cut-focused specialists like WF, GOG and Indira in London: I'd offer the reason these places have a bit of markup over a turnover focused model is because they specialize in quality filtering and consumer protection. The brands they boast meet far more exacting tolerances, have proof of every aspect of performance from ASET to 3d scans and the companies want you for life - offering generous long term options. The value in having a foremost expert personally screen and hand-select the inventory is also worth a little extra to some people.

I agree completely that BN has a tremendous inventory. Logically though, there are far more average diamonds in the world than top diamonds. Regrettably BN is not clear on what standards are enforced for their top collection. There is a much wider range of measurements and craftsmanship in the compulsory data than more elite brands, and since they offer no specific performance information like ASET a practical comparison is impossible - even within their own brand. They do stock AGS0 stones, which is very positive. Even there the character of the “look” acquired across the spectrum of their inventory likely varies far more in consistency than the offerings of cut focused specialists like WF, GOG and Indira, who have hand-selected diamonds from among hundreds of candidates with a consistent “look” they feel is optimal – and they are able to speak very specifically on that subject.

This is not a condemnation of turnover-focused models – different strokes for different folks, right? – but I will admit a personal admiration for those who resist the mainstream and go the extra mile to offer only what they feel is cut-elite - along with proof o’ plenty and lifetime support.

Secondly, I’d voice that in an AGS to GIA comparison fancy shapes are not like rounds. Why? Becaue there is no cut assessment by GIA for fancy shapes. Many beautifully cut princesses are sent to GIA, but there are also many average and poorly cut options sent there. Simply put, a GIA D-Flawless princess could look dead and lifeless and there would be no way to know that from the report. One thing is certain; Manufacturers and sellers are clever. They know which diamonds must go to which labs for the best results and sales-possibility. Why do you think there are so many EGL and IGI-graded diamonds? It’s because they are known to be softer, so the paper “looks” better. By the same logic, cutters will not send a diamond that would be penalized in the AGS cut system to AGS when they know they can send it to GIA (or other) for a report that includes no performance information. The bottom line is that GIA fancy shapes are hit and miss when it comes to performance. At best, with no further performance indication, it’s a game of princess-roulette (come on seven!).

I offer this information understanding there are different levels of “give a hoot."

If the highest echelon of crazy diamond cut snobbery is not what you’re seeking you may be perfectly happy calling in and selecting from several diamonds that seem best, especially since you can return them… But in any discussion of price it’s prudent to remind that things are typically priced a certain way for a reason.

Hope all is well in lovely England. I had a layover at Heathrow on Monday and was thinking of all my UK Pricescope friends. Cheers!

 

[Indira-London]

Thank you John - I could not have explained this better myself!
I have been busy this week, ironically with clients flying in from outside to look at diamonds and did not get a chance to see this thread earlier.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/25/2008 6:52:04 PM
Author: John Pollard
Hi UKPrincess. I was looking at your thread and thought I’d chime in since I had some time to burn (that is dangerous, since I tend to be a little…uh…wordy!). Also, since I am in Antwerp right now (instead of Texas) I feel a kinship to you European posters.

''clink''

''clinking''

ya right back Sir!

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 9/25/2008 8:43:12 AM
Author: ukprincess81

Does anyone have any positive feedback about QualityDiamonds.co.uk????

Paul of QD has posted on here a few times - have a search for the poster ''QDrocks'' i think it was.

the only other feedback i''ve heard about QD was on another forum in which the poster was unhappy that they had sent them a different diamond to that which they had ordered

not sure if this is against the forum rules.. so i apologise to the Mods and please remove if necessary
but the thread i am talking about is :here:

i know you want to stick to the UK... but i''d be suprised if WF or GOG wouldnt meet your quick turn around demands - a friend of mine bought a ring from Whiteflash last christmas... he had decided to pop the question while they where visiting her parents in France, but left the sourcing of the ring to 3 weeks before leaving. WF where able to get the ring to him within a week!
Shipping internationally via couriors couldnt be easier now with the internet - its just a case of going to one of the relevant couriors and booking the package in, they come and pick it up at the required time, and you can track the package back to the vendor.