UK Buyer - Not Sure What To Do

[PapaSB]

Is this any good as a stone?

Diamond clarity : SI2
Diamond colour : I
Brand : Leo Diamond
Diamond : 1 carat
Cut : 66 Facet Cut

I wont scare you with the UK price, but would be interested to know what this would cost in the US?

The whole Gemex, IGI, AGS, etc still confuses me (i am new to all this) - i gather IGI isn''t as strict as it could be on the grading - where as AGS is. This is Gemex and IGI certified (which i gather means nearly nothing).

Can send link to store / picture but didn''t as wasnt sure if i could as part of the rules of the forum.

 

[Maisie]

Hi PapaSB. Welcome to Pricescope

I am from the UK too (there are a few of us on here). I bought my ring from the US and even with the customs charges (approx 20%) its still worth it.

The US vendors provide so much more information for you than the UK stores ever do.

Its ok for you to provide a link to the diamond you are considering

 

[PapaSB]

http://www.ernestjones.co.uk/webstore/detail/R/5615666/

Feel free to give constructive feedback

 

[Maisie]

I personally wouldn't get a ring from Ernest Jones but thats just me.

Whiteflash does a diamond selection called A Cut Above. They are described as 'exceeding the worlds highest standards for craftsmanship and performance'....

I have owned one of these diamonds and I was delighted with it.


For one carat, I colour and SI 1 clarity in the A Cut Above diamond you would be looking at spending approx £3376 (this includes customs duty and VAT - which you pay once it arrives in the UK) This price includes an 18ct Yellow Gold setting.


http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-45607.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/-Sleek-Lines--Solitaire_688.htm

If you really wanted to spend £6000 you could either get a bigger diamond, or move up the colour and clarity scale.

 

[PapaSB]

For one carat, I colour and SI 1 clarity in the A Cut Above diamond you would be looking at spending approx £3376 (this includes customs duty and VAT - which you pay once it arrives in the UK) This price includes an 18ct Yellow Gold setting.

How do you know these prices are true? What information are you drawing on to calculate duty and VAT? I suspect that the price i am looking at in EJ is high - based on the dollar rate and the fact the world is run in the good old USD i feel they are over priced. I have no proof and to date, i have had nothing else to go on.

I would be happy to buy a diamond and then get a ring made (it would be surely still cheaper) - however, i have a certain amount of nervousness in purchasing something i have not seen, from abroad, and getting is posted!

 

[Maisie]

I completely understand your concerns because thats how I felt too. I had countless conversations, both here on Pricescope, and also with Whiteflash themselves.

WF have a massive reputation on here. There are many satisfied customers who will vouch for their experiences with them as a company. I am on my third diamond with them (they have an upgrade policy which allows you to trade up to a bigger diamond later) and I wouldn''t hesitate to recommend them to you.

I know how much the customs charges are because I have bought from WF before. There is a helpline number you can call to ask them yourself about the charges. Its on the Inland Revenue website.

There is a lot of information on each diamond when you look on the WF website. They are also very happy to speak to you at length about your purchase. They always phone me as its not cheap to call the US

At the end of the day, its your choice. You can pay the inflated UK price, or you can save a lot of money buying from abroad. I know that I have had an excellent experience with this company.

There are other vendors you can look at, but I can''t comment on them as I have only used WF.

Here are a couple of photos of my ring....





Good Luck!

 

[Maisie]

.........

 

[Maisie]

....

 

[PapaSB]

Wow! Looks very good. Was it made in the US or made in the UK?

 

[gk172]

Were from the uk and were shocked at the differance between our high street stores and buying online from usa, we were fortunate to be going to florida and ordered and collected from abazias.com but we bought a 1 ct princess cut D VS1 with 1/2 carat stones in yellow gold setting for £3200 which is a big differance to the £6000 for the I SI2 just think what $12000 would get you. If i remember right kay.com (usa store) also sell the leo diamond and you could see what they are charging the divide by 2 to see what it would cost then.



https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/gillykring.jpg

 

[PapaSB]

I think its absolutely mad the difference in price. A store price for a 1ct Leo here is 6000 GBP, which is approximately 12500 USD. The 1ct higher quality diamonds on the US websites are in some cases half, in others a third of the price.

That said, looking at it the other way, for anyone coming into the UK from the US at the moment would have to pay close to 10USD for a pint of beer!

Did you actually have it already made up and just collected it?

 

[Maisie]

It was made in the US and shipped to me here in the UK.

 

[gk172]

Date: 11/15/2007 7:36:40 AM
Author: PapaSB
I think its absolutely mad the difference in price. A store price for a 1ct Leo here is 6000 GBP, which is approximately 12500 USD. The 1ct higher quality diamonds on the US websites are in some cases half, in others a third of the price.

That said, looking at it the other way, for anyone coming into the UK from the US at the moment would have to pay close to 10USD for a pint of beer!

Did you actually have it already made up and just collected it?

I had the ring valued once back home £9000, and i many many emails with jamie from abazias helping my choose the setting and the diamond and once i had chosen they then put a hold on my credit card till i got out there and collected my ring and they sent photos so i could see the fully made ring before we flew out.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/15/2007 5:58:42 AM
Author: gk172
Were from the uk and were shocked at the differance between our high street stores and buying online from usa, we were fortunate to be going to florida and ordered and collected from abazias.com but we bought a 1 ct princess cut D VS1 with 1/2 carat stones in yellow gold setting for £3200 which is a big differance to the £6000 for the I SI2 just think what $12000 would get you. If i remember right kay.com (usa store) also sell the leo diamond and you could see what they are charging the divide by 2 to see what it would cost then.



https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/gillykring.jpg

Out of curiosity, did you declare your purchase to Customs on your way home?

 

[Po10472]

OMG buy from the US. I bought my 5-stone from the US and had my cousin bring it home, she lives in Philly. It would have cost me 5 times what I paid for it here. Just think what you could get for $12,000. Its so worth it.

Trust the PS.

 

[gk172]

Date: 11/15/2007 11:19:26 AM
Author: Maisie

Date: 11/15/2007 5:58:42 AM
Author: gk172
Were from the uk and were shocked at the differance between our high street stores and buying online from usa, we were fortunate to be going to florida and ordered and collected from abazias.com but we bought a 1 ct princess cut D VS1 with 1/2 carat stones in yellow gold setting for £3200 which is a big differance to the £6000 for the I SI2 just think what $12000 would get you. If i remember right kay.com (usa store) also sell the leo diamond and you could see what they are charging the divide by 2 to see what it would cost then.



http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/gillykring.jpg

Out of curiosity, did you declare your purchase to Customs on your way home?

No I just wore it on my finger

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/15/2007 1:33:23 PM
Author: gk172

Date: 11/15/2007 11:19:26 AM
Author: Maisie

Date: 11/15/2007 5:58:42 AM
Author: gk172
Were from the uk and were shocked at the differance between our high street stores and buying online from usa, we were fortunate to be going to florida and ordered and collected from abazias.com but we bought a 1 ct princess cut D VS1 with 1/2 carat stones in yellow gold setting for £3200 which is a big differance to the £6000 for the I SI2 just think what $12000 would get you. If i remember right kay.com (usa store) also sell the leo diamond and you could see what they are charging the divide by 2 to see what it would cost then.



http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/gillykring.jpg

Out of curiosity, did you declare your purchase to Customs on your way home?

No I just wore it on my finger

Didn''t you worry you would get stopped by customs?

It does happen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3716690.stm

 

[chizzy1982]

Hey PapaSB

Using what knowledge i have the EJ ring does look really overpriced and i feel you are better off looking to get your diamond abroad. My boyfriend and I are looking to go to the US to purchase a Catier ring as we would still be under budget even with flights, accomadation and would be purchasing a "better" ring in tersm of colour and clarity - AND wouldn''t have to pay taxes as i would just wear it on my finger.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/15/2007 1:47:01 PM
Author: chizzy1982
Hey PapaSB

Using what knowledge i have the EJ ring does look really overpriced and i feel you are better off looking to get your diamond abroad. My boyfriend and I are looking to go to the US to purchase a Catier ring as we would still be under budget even with flights, accomadation and would be purchasing a ''better'' ring in tersm of colour and clarity - AND wouldn''t have to pay taxes as i would just wear it on my finger.

At the risk of sounding like I am nagging - You DO have to pay taxes. You are just choosing not to.

 

[Maisie]

I wanted to make sure I had given you the correct information so I called the UK Customs and Excise helpline.

If you buy an item of jewellery abroad and its worth more than £145 you must declare it when you import it into the UK. It is breaking the law if you don't.

Also if you insure the item and it is stolen, you would have to provide a VAT receipt showing the purchase. It will show that you haven't paid any duty and VAT as you purchased it abroad. Your insurance company would then refuse to pay out on the claim as it would be classed as an illegal item. You can't insure an illegal item. They are also duty bound to inform Customs and Excise that you imported an item without paying tax and duty.

I know that my diamond is worth far more than the customs charges. I would rather pay customs than have to replace my whole ring if something happened to it.

 

[gtn]

I agree with Maisie, get a good diamond from the US, pay the taxes, VAT, customs, etc, and you will still come out of this experience with a better diamond and deal. Getting a diamond with the specs of your current diamond will cost you less than 6000 pounds/$12500 USD.

As long as you go with a reputable dealer, you will not have a problem

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Hiya,

another brit here

ok - for clarification - import duties, basic line is - buy a diamond on its own in the US, and bringing it into the EU (all the import duties are the same accross the EU now no matter what the country) you have to declare. the import duty on an unset diamond is 0% but VAT is charges at 17.5%,

so basically you are looking at diamond in $ + shipping converted to £ so basically at the moment $2=£1 then add 17.5%

on the other hand

if a diamond is set in a precious metal or you have jewellery (made from a precious metal) imported into the EU then import duty of 2.5% is charge on the value of the item (including the cost of shipping) then VAT is added on top of that. so it is cost + 2.5% + 17.5%

you can check these figures with FedEx by registering (for free) on their website, this will allow you to search for the import duty rates of any item. (i would link to the EU import duty site, but its horrible to navigate and very long winded, and the FedEx site has the same info, but easier to find)

for referance i''ve had friends who have recently bought a stone and shipped it over - cost of shipping with FedEx priority was about $60-90 depending on the value of the stone (both where around 1ct)

I would urge you to forget the Earnest Jones stone.... it is so VASTLY overpriced! by a large amount (£500-2000 depending on stores), even by UK standards... you are paying for the combined brand names of Earnest Jones, and the Leo diamond - which frankly, having been shown a fair number when i''ve been killing time in the stores in the Trafford Centre when the M60 is chocca in an evening

by comparison have a look at This 1ct I SI2 which i found at Winfields (wink jones who posts on here owns the store) by using the ''pricescope your diamond'' box at the top using a search of round, 1.01 - 1.05 I SI2 ''in house''
its listed as $4772 which imported is £2803 + shipping
The Stone has been cut by another pricescoper - Paul @ Infinity, who is based in Antwerp, Belgium - and like the Whiteflash A Cut Above diamonds linked to by others will blow any Earnest Jones stone out of the water.

I bought my wife''s stone from Whiteflash, an A Cut Above and heartly recommend them, (and the same with Wink.) I then had the stone set in a ring i designed by a local jeweller in the UK. which may be an option for you. its not something the high street chain store jewellers will do (they are far more interested in selling cheap finance deals on cheap mass produced rings) but there are plenty of smaller jewellers who would be able to help you out.

If you dont feel comfortable buying from the USA, then i know Paul would be happy, if you contacted him, to arrange a viewing at his dealer in London, and for you to come along and view his stones in person.

 

[researchdude]

PapaSB,

I live in the UK too!

That's a reall nice design but seriously you must be sitting on too much money if you were thinking about buying it in the UK.

I'm going through the same thought process. Check out on this site the diamond listing, and you'll find - like others have mentioned - the same (if not better) diamond at half the price. I also think that there is much more information in the US on diamonds.

You could also consider buying it in Antwerp (take the Eurostar for a day trip). Would still be better off than in the UK.

With the money you're saving you could either upgrade (to a much bigger rock) or throw an engagement party or take your loved one to somewhere really special. Why pay more than you should!

I've calculated buying from the US @ approx. £3,300 inc. 17.5% customs tax for the ring I'm interested in getting (which is a 1.18ct-I-VS2-ideal cut). A similar ring costs £4,600 in a store where I went (Hatton Gardens, London).

Cheers

RD

 

[Pandora II]

Another Brit here.

Don't even think of buying from Ernest Jones - and I wouldn't buy from Hatton Garden either.

Antwerp is good - if you know exactly who you are buying in from - but the dollar exchange rate is so good for us you'd be mad not to use it.

I just helped my brother buy a stone last week from Whiteflash and got him to check the prices for the same colour/size/clarity in Hatton Garden. They got really agressive when he asked for pavillion and crown angles, told him an SI1 was 'loupe-clean'

and wanted twice the price for a lower quality stone with no chance of an idealscope pic or anything. I'm just waiting for final details on quotes for the setting now. Email, phone and the Internet make overseas a whole lot closer. Plus you have PS to help you out and guide your choice.

Don't worry about buying sight unseen. The vendors on PS have expert eyes and want YOU to be happy with your purchase. They are so helpful.

I bought my e-ring through Wink, one of the PS vendors. My centre stone was a coloured stone which is even harder to buy unseen as there are far more variables than with diamonds and colour is very subjective. I got to see my stone via videolink and it was beyond my wildest dreams. The final ring was even more beautiful than the photos. He was so helpful and patient with my custom setting design. Jewellers in places like Mappin & Webb have gone nuts over my ring as they've never seen anything quite like it in the UK.

Totally buy online - you will end up with a much better deal - and a MUCH better ring than you will with UK prices/quality.

People in the UK are so uneducated about jewellery that vendors get away with selling crap and no one says a word - it all looks sparkly under their lights. My tsavorite sparkles way more than most of my colleagues diamonds!

 

[researchdude]

Date: 11/15/2007 7:55:46 PM
Author: Pandora II
Another Brit here.


Don''t even think of buying from Ernest Jones - and I wouldn''t buy from Hatton Garden either.


Antwerp is good - if you know exactly who you are buying in from - but the dollar exchange rate is so good for us you''d be mad not to use it.


I just helped my brother buy a stone last week from Whiteflash and got him to check the prices for the same colour/size/clarity in Hatton Garden. They got really agressive when he asked for pavillion and crown angles, told him an SI1 was ''loupe-clean''

and wanted twice the price for a lower quality stone with no chance of an idealscope pic or anything. I''m just waiting for final details on quotes for the setting now. Email, phone and the Internet make overseas a whole lot closer. Plus you have PS to help you out and guide your choice.


Don''t worry about buying sight unseen. The vendors on PS have expert eyes and want YOU to be happy with your purchase. They are so helpful.


I bought my e-ring using a PS vendor. My centre stone was a coloured stone which is even harder to buy unseen as there are far more variables than with diamonds and colour is very subjective. I got to see my stone via videolink and it was beyond my wildest dreams. The final ring was even more beautiful than the photos.


Totally buy online - you will end up with a much better deal - and a MUCH better ring than you will with UK prices/quality.


People in the UK are so uneducated about jewellery that vendors get away with selling crap and no one says a word - it all looks sparkly under their lights. My tsavorite sparkles way more than most of my colleagues diamonds!

I second that.

Hatton Gardens felt a bit like going to Tottenham Court road; they know little, they talk a lot (of nonsense!), they clearly want to sell things to you despertely, and at ridiculous prices.

Buying through the net, you also get everything in writing. Another plus to avoid miscommunication issues later on.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 11/15/2007 2:22:31 PM
Author: Maisie
Also if you insure the item and it is stolen, you would have to provide a VAT receipt showing the purchase. It will show that you haven''t paid any duty and VAT as you purchased it abroad. Your insurance company would then refuse to pay out on the claim as it would be classed as an illegal item. You can''t insure an illegal item. They are also duty bound to inform Customs and Excise that you imported an item without paying tax and duty.

Interesting... Wonder what happens for someone insuring a second-hand ring bought off ebay from a private individual? All legit. Original owner may have paid VAT, legally not paid or illegally not paid, how would the buyer know?

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/16/2007 12:10:46 AM
Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 2:22:31 PM
Author: Maisie
Also if you insure the item and it is stolen, you would have to provide a VAT receipt showing the purchase. It will show that you haven't paid any duty and VAT as you purchased it abroad. Your insurance company would then refuse to pay out on the claim as it would be classed as an illegal item. You can't insure an illegal item. They are also duty bound to inform Customs and Excise that you imported an item without paying tax and duty.

Interesting... Wonder what happens for someone insuring a second-hand ring bought off ebay from a private individual? All legit. Original owner may have paid VAT, legally not paid or illegally not paid, how would the buyer know?

I don't know. I am only quoting what I was told by customs on their helpline.

At the end of the day each person will choose whether to pay the duty or not. I always pay it. Thats my personal choice.

 

[Kats]

Date: 11/16/2007 12:10:46 AM
Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 2:22:31 PM
Author: Maisie
Also if you insure the item and it is stolen, you would have to provide a VAT receipt showing the purchase. It will show that you haven''t paid any duty and VAT as you purchased it abroad. Your insurance company would then refuse to pay out on the claim as it would be classed as an illegal item. You can''t insure an illegal item. They are also duty bound to inform Customs and Excise that you imported an item without paying tax and duty.

Interesting... Wonder what happens for someone insuring a second-hand ring bought off ebay from a private individual? All legit. Original owner may have paid VAT, legally not paid or illegally not paid, how would the buyer know?

Or if you lose the VAT receipt? I''m not sure that I will still have mine somewhere safe in 20 years, in fact I''m not sure where it is now! I think that''s what they have to tell people but I''d be surprised if the insurance company didn''t cover it if you had the receipt but not the VAT receipt.

I agree about Hatton Garden, I wasn''t really impressed with what I saw there and the prices weren''t that great either (there probably are good stores but you have to know which ones to go do, which I don''t!).

 

[Maisie]

Date: 11/16/2007 5:32:37 AM
Author: Kats

Date: 11/16/2007 12:10:46 AM
Author: stebbo

Date: 11/15/2007 2:22:31 PM
Author: Maisie
Also if you insure the item and it is stolen, you would have to provide a VAT receipt showing the purchase. It will show that you haven''t paid any duty and VAT as you purchased it abroad. Your insurance company would then refuse to pay out on the claim as it would be classed as an illegal item. You can''t insure an illegal item. They are also duty bound to inform Customs and Excise that you imported an item without paying tax and duty.

Interesting... Wonder what happens for someone insuring a second-hand ring bought off ebay from a private individual? All legit. Original owner may have paid VAT, legally not paid or illegally not paid, how would the buyer know?

Or if you lose the VAT receipt? I''m not sure that I will still have mine somewhere safe in 20 years, in fact I''m not sure where it is now! I think that''s what they have to tell people but I''d be surprised if the insurance company didn''t cover it if you had the receipt but not the VAT receipt.

I agree about Hatton Garden, I wasn''t really impressed with what I saw there and the prices weren''t that great either (there probably are good stores but you have to know which ones to go do, which I don''t!).

I agree that there is a grey area where second hand goods, and older items are concerned.

In this case though people are talking about avoiding taxes when they buy from abroad. That is them deliberately breaking the law.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

I''m wondering if insurance thing is a red herring... scare tactic... lets face it Liz''s tax collectors are hardly going to tell you its ok to smuggle something past them,

at the end of the day - any high value item like a diamond needs to be declared on your home contents insurance policy. in the case of diamonds like you buy from the likes of Whiteflash... you what to have it independantly appraised... so if it gets lost or stolen then you a like for like stone, and not a poor equivalent stone/ring from the insurers approved retailer... which could well be someone like H Samuels.

If you by from someone like Wink or Whiteflash, and buy a graded stone, you get the grading certificate for the diamond, and a letter of verification from someone independant to say the diamond being sent has the right certificate, as is as the certificate says.

you can then always take the diamond to an independant appraiser to give you an insurance valuation