Tucson 2012

[Sagebrush]

Greetings from Tucson:

Arrived last evening. Weather clear and sunny and the weather report promises the same all week. Anyone else coming to town? This is our 27th year at the shows and Rebekah and I will be here for two weeks. We will be attending the Accredited Gemologists Program. Dominic Mok will be lecturing on jadeite and it promises to be a great program. if any of our Pricescope friends are in Tucson, please stop us and say howdy.

Best,

Richard

 

[Starzin]

Have a great time and we look forward to newsy updates when you have a moment.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The good news is, as Richard stated, the weather is nice.

Good rough is in very short supply this year, and price are up substantially from last year. Most dealers are indicating this is due partly to the cost of mining, material is running low, and what is being found is getting gobbled up by the Chinese, who are paying most any price for material. Apparently they are not just buying iPhones in China!

 

[Starzin]

I guess good gem rough is just following everything else in it's steady upward climb, not that that is a particularly reassuring thought to those of you looking to buy. Presumably you have a couple of things tucked in your pockets to fund it when you find what you're looking for.

The upside is if you find the quality is worth the expense...but from what you're saying, it's not finding it's way to US shores and I know you guys are trying to break it to us gently...future expectations and all that.

So what's your favourite thing so far? Is the attendance up/down?

Good weather always helps

 

[schoenfeld]

I will be there from the 8th of February and hope to locate some good rough

 

[chrono]

Urgh....guess it'll be another slow year for me again this year. Good material is in even shorter supply and pricing keeps going up, even on sub-par material.

 

[JewelFreak]

Me too. Maybe I'll use the $$ to get some things set, which, at the price of gold, just about equals what a new stone would cost.

--- Laurie

 

[chrono]

Me too. Maybe I'll use the $$ to get some things set, which, at the price of gold, just about equals what a new stone would cost.

--- Laurie

I refuse to pay the currently ridiculously high price of gold as well; I've heard news reports that the gold price might come down quite a bit early next year so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll come true. Just because I can afford it doesn't mean I am willing to throw away my money that easily.

 

[T L]

I know someone that went and she is a gemstone collector. She told me there were some great buys to be had on beautiful and rare gems. Maybe its just rough that is in short supply. Anyways, hope you're all having fun there! I'm so jealous!

 

[sphenequeen]

I really want to hear what is said about jadeite. Please keep us posted!

 

[minousbijoux]

She told me there were some great buys to be had on beautiful and rare gems.

TL, did she say what "beautiful and rare gems" there were great buys on? Like many of us, I'm hanging around the usual suspect websites and forums waiting to hear the scores, stories and new discoveries from Tuscon...

 

[sphenequeen]

Richard - are you going to post about the seminar on Jadeite or should we check somewhere else?

 

[JewelFreak]

Chrono|1328015304|3115488]I refuse to pay the currently ridiculously high price of gold as well; I've heard news reports that the gold price might come down quite a bit early next year so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll come true. Just because I can afford it doesn't mean I am willing to throw away my money that easily.

Chrono, I feel the same way -- it's just nuts when the biggest expense of setting a good stone is the metal in the mounting. I'm doing only small stuff for the near future. Even if gold prices do go down, it will take some time for the decrease to hit the retail market as jewelers use up stock they bought high (& charge accordingly), though I doubt anybody keeps much of it around at present costs.

--- Laurie

 

[Sagebrush]

Sphenequeen,

Dominic Mok delivered an impressive and comprehensive talk on jadeite at The Accredited Gemologists Association. He has developed a new system of evaluation which is much more useful to Western gemologists. As with all gems, the trade has done its best to make connoisseurship in jadeite difficult for professionals and nearly impossible for mere aficionados . There is very little in the literature that relates directly to quality evaluation. When I published Secrets in 2003 I did not feel qualified to write with any authority on the topic. Since then I have spent some time studying the gem and do plan a chapter on Jadeite in Secrets II which I hope to finish by 2014. One suggestion; Jade for You by John Ng. It is out of print but copies can be found on the internet.

This was followed by an equally interesting presentation by Adolph Peretti on spinel.


RWW

 

[ruffysdad]

I just got back from Tuscon and although good rough at decent prices were pretty hard to find, there were a few deals to be had if you were willing to look in some of the nooks and crannies for them. Some of the prices being charged for decent (decent, not great) rough did make me wonder what kind of super-weed the sellers had been smoking The attendance by buyers seemed to be a bit down but my impression was that a lot of sellers stayed home too so it kind of balances out I guess.

For a change, I bought nothing at the Pueblo show. I just can't reconcile the prices there with reality. No room for the cutter to make a dime on most everything I saw. Is this a trend? All i can say is I hope not.

I found some dealers in Mexican opal behind some of the hotels along the strip that let me high-grade the heck out of their stuff and were willing to deal on the price. Likewise, I found some guys at the electric park and GJX willing to do the same for heated blue zircon and some small Mali garnets. Also found some Nigerians that didn't want to take their stuff home and made a pretty good deal on some Keffi mint tourms of decent size.

One guy that really stuck in my mind was a guy from Idar-Oberstein that was offering some decent looking, rough Nigerian tourmalines for Only 300/gram, parcel (about 250 grams) no pick. All I gotta say is "Man! you gotta stop doin' that wicked cocaine!" With that kind of price, I just walked off. He had some spinel and garnet rough that I liked but there's no reasoning with a madman.

Pete

 

[T L]

She told me there were some great buys to be had on beautiful and rare gems.

TL, did she say what "beautiful and rare gems" there were great buys on? Like many of us, I'm hanging around the usual suspect websites and forums waiting to hear the scores, stories and new discoveries from Tuscon...

Actually, she said they were mostly on included gems, which no one wants. The prices were actually very high, and as far as some gems, like spinel and corundum, perhaps I can understand it. I will never ever understand why some gems, like paraiba tourmaline are $50K/ct. It's a brittle and heated stone with a low RI. I've seen Brazilian material in person and no way, no how would I pay those prices. Rather have an FCD for that. I would also refuse to buy any blue or red tourmaline for high prices as there is no way to detect irradiation on it but that is a source of debate here.

 

[Sagebrush]

A bit of musing from GemWise:

Malaya Pure and Simple:

Much of the new Tanzanian garnet is being touted as “imperial” a term that sounds very good but has no actual meaning. Just to set the record straight, this new garnet is malaya pure and simple. It exhibits a brown primary with a pinkish secondary hue. Although pink is the preferred secondary in all brown gemstones, the brown dominates. I saw one pair of very well cut round brilliants that showed brown and pink on alternate facets, really odd! I will not be brilliant cutting my rough! You will often hear the term imperial, imperial topaz is another example.

Golden Yellow Topaz:

One vendor had a nice supply of yellow Brazilian material, something I have not seen in a long time. Though arguably the least expensive color in topaz, it is really quite rare. This topaz is quite beautiful, with a soft canary yellow hue that is particularly lovely when cut in the pear and oval shapes that gather and concentrate the yellow towards each end of the gemstone. Topaz shows its strongest color on the C axis of the crystal so symmetrical cuts, rounds and cushions usually appear washed out when compared to ovals and pears. The pear and oval shapes allow the C Axis to bleed through at either end.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I believe the name "Imperial Garnet" was actually coined by Steve from New Era Gems years ago. I have seen these stones offered from a few dealers who also sell Malaya garnet. In the rough, the Imperial garnets normally have a much more pink color, lacking some orange that is often seen in Malaya garnet from Kenya and Tanzania. The naming of garnets gets a little crazy, as there are so many mixes. I have a few stones called Imperial, along with my normal supply of East African Malaya. I'll see if the refractive index is any different for them.

It's interesting to note that I see people cutting and selling a dark red/brown garnet from Nigeria, and calling it Malaya. These stones from Nigeria in the rough cost about 1/20 of what the Malaya rough from Kenya and Tanzania cost, and cut a dark unattractive stone. I don't think these are Malaya garnets at all. Typically stones being sold as "Imperial" in the rough are about double the price of the other East African Malaya.

 

[T L]

I believe the name "Imperial Garnet" was actually coined by Steve from New Era Gems years ago. I have seen these stones offered from a few dealers who also sell Malaya garnet. In the rough, the Imperial garnets normally have a much more pink color, lacking some orange that is often seen in Malaya garnet from Kenya and Tanzania. The naming of garnets gets a little crazy, as there are so many mixes. I have a few stones called Imperial, along with my normal supply of East African Malaya. I'll see if the refractive index is any different for them.

It's interesting to note that I see people cutting and selling a dark red/brown garnet from Nigeria, and calling it Malaya. These stones from Nigeria in the rough cost about 1/20 of what the Malaya rough from Kenya and Tanzania cost, and cut a dark unattractive stone. I don't think these are Malaya garnets at all. Typically stones being sold as "Imperial" in the rough are about double the price of the other East African Malaya.

Malaya is just another marketing name, and people should ignore marketing names IMHO.

 

[PrecisionGem]

TL, what would you call garnets commonly referred to as Malaya? A malaya is a mix of spessertite, Almandine and Grossular. It cant be classified as any one of these 3.

 

[T L]

TL, what would you call garnets commonly referred to as Malaya? A malaya is a mix of spessertite, Almandine and Grossular. It cant be classified as any one of these 3.

I would simply call it a garnet, and refer to it by it's main color, or color shift. Flesh to peach color garnet, or pinkish orange color garnet, etc. . .

For the gemologist, just call it a mix of spessartite, almandine and grossular. Most laypeople don't know what those terms mean anyways, and the marketing terms are there just to confuse them further.

Honestly, the word "Malaya" isn't that descriptive.

 

[VapidLapid]

I thought that malaya was a particular mixture of garnet type that is found as alluvial and was long considered undesirable, so much so that the ground was strewn with it. Also that the term malaya meant something like cast-off or shunned. I have one piece of garnet rough that was sold to me as Imperial about six or seven years ago. It is very like a pomegranate seed both in color and shape, and pretty much holds its color in all lights.



eta: wow the color really changed when I uploaded to PS. It is a bright, saturated deep pink with no brown.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Vapid, that's exactly the type of stone I see as Imperial Garnet. They have a more glassy look, not the worn look of the malaya garnet.

Personally, I like the different "trade" names for the garnets. It's clarifies what you are talking about, and it more understood. Take the green grossular garnets, if you call one a tsavorite, people picture a darker green compared to a Mereleni Mint which would be the lighter green. Same thing to me with these Malaya garnets. I don't think its a sales pitch, but rather a means to communicate better. Bill Hanneman has a book "Naming Gem Garnets", that goes into great depth on the composition and properties of different types and mixes of garnets. In the book he identifies a Malaya as a mix of Pyrope Spessartite, or Mg1.6 Mn1.2 Fe0.16 Ca0.04 Al2(SiO4)3
I think it's easier to just call it a Malaya! He goes on to list the refractive index ranges of these various garnets along with the spectra. All becomes very complicated with a lot of overlapping characteristics.

 

[T L]

Personally, I like the different "trade" names for the garnets. It's clarifies what you are talking about, and it more understood. .

Not necessarily, for example, everyone and their best friend refers to spessartite as mandarin garnet, even if they're brown. I find these trade names are often misused. Malaya is often misused as well, but to each his/her own, and everyone has their opinion on marketing names.

 

[VapidLapid]

I like it when names actually mean something. The use of mandarin to denote any spessartite makes me quite angry. The use of Kashmir for anything but a stone from there no matter how hideous infuriates me. When an otherwise reputable and respected vendor mis uses that term it costs them hugely in my respect.

 

[T L]

I like it when names actually mean something. The use of mandarin to denote any spessartite makes me quite angry. The use of Kashmir for anything but a stone from there no matter how hideous infuriates me. When an otherwise reputable and respected vendor mis uses that term it costs them hugely in my respect.

Yes, and that's the biggest problem with marketing names for me. They become overused and abused.

 

[pregcurious]

Richard and Gene, thank you so much for your updates! I didn't realize that asymmetrical cuts would allow color from the C-axis to bleed through, but now that you point it out, it makes sense. I love learning new things here. My knowledge is very limited, but from what I understand, tourmalines often have a closed c-axis. Is there a reason why they are often cut into asymmetrical cuts? (Sorry for this naive question.)

Also, congrats on the accolades for your book. I'm looking forward to the next edition.

 

[PrecisionGem]

For tourmaline with a very dark, or closed C axis, you need to minimize this axis. To do this, you use very steep angles on the C axis plane. Opposed bar cuts work very well for these stones as the ends are cut at around a 70 degree angle. If you tried to cut a traditional cushion or round from a closed axis stone, the finished stone would be just about totally closed up, and you would have a black stone. Often green tourmaline crystals have an open C axis, but not as nice a color, so the same types of cuts are used on these stones to minimize the undesirable color.

I don't have this stone any more, but I would think the C axis on this one was closed or almost closed, yet with the step end angles the effect of the closed axis is greatly reduced.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Personally, I like the different "trade" names for the garnets. It's clarifies what you are talking about, and it more understood. .

Not necessarily, for example, everyone and their best friend refers to spessartite as mandarin garnet, even if they're brown. I find these trade names are often misused. Malaya is often misused as well, but to each his/her own, and everyone has their opinion on marketing names.

TL, if you ever buy a Malaya garnet from me, on the invoice I'll just call it: Mg1.6 Mn1.2 Fe0.16 Ca0.04 Al2(SiO4)3

 

[T L]

Personally, I like the different "trade" names for the garnets. It's clarifies what you are talking about, and it more understood. .

Not necessarily, for example, everyone and their best friend refers to spessartite as mandarin garnet, even if they're brown. I find these trade names are often misused. Malaya is often misused as well, but to each his/her own, and everyone has their opinion on marketing names.

TL, if you ever buy a Malaya garnet from me, on the invoice I'll just call it: Mg1.6 Mn1.2 Fe0.16 Ca0.04 Al2(SiO4)3

Gene, I think you know me well enough to know that I would appreciate the chemical name.