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Trying not to get screwed.

T

Trent

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14
So I'm dealing with a diamond retail chain, I have already purchased a beautiful setting. And now I'm looking for center stones. Started out with the same lady that sold me the setting, looked at some diamonds didn't see any I really liked so I out a deposit on the one I liked best out of all of them just in case. Later emailed her and told her I had done some research online and know what Im looking for and if they couldn't supply it I'd have to buy else where.

Essentially I'd like a carat-ish D-F color, VS2 or higher 5.5x5.5 dimensions or higher. Ex polish VG or better semmetry. My budget is 6k....not a penny more.

Later that same day early afternoon the manager emails me and let's me know he is taking over my account while she is out for surgery. He states he is on the hunt for my stone. Later in the evening he emails and said he found a perfect stone at another location he is going to have shipped in. He says it's got a price tag on it for 8k but will do 6k for me providing I leave some good feed back on social media sites... So he attached the GIA report and it is as follows".........my question is is he feeding me a line of bull $$$$ or is it really a good opportunity / deal?

1.01 carat
Color E
VS2
Polish - EX
Semmetry- VG
Florecence- none
70% table
68.8% depth
Cutlet -none
Demensions- 5.72 x 5.61
Additional comments:
Aditional clouds not shown

There are 2 clouds marked on the map
 
Um....a 2k drop in the price seems a bit fishy to me....Is this a princess stone?
 
Yea it's a princess cut
 
Here are some I found:

JA offers PS members an additional discount (usually between 1-5%), and if you like the stones you can put (up to 3) on hold and request aset images. I suggest going down to a G SI1 or SI2 (if it's eye clean) to get the biggest size. G is still close to white but I would suggest going lower than that on a princess.

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.16-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-sku-198658

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-176481

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.21-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-203574

*Also - rule of thumb with princess cuts you want the depth to be bigger than the table.
 
They person receiving this ring is extremely color sensitive as am I, we tried H and could still see color.
 
I dislike such a huge table on princess cuts. A well cut diamond looks whiter than a not as nice cut diamond even when they have the same colour grading.
 
Trent|1366984624|3434911 said:
They person receiving this ring is extremely color sensitive as am I, we tried H and could still see color.
Click to expand...

You can watch the videos of the diamonds I posted and see if you detect color. You can find a G that has barley any color....
 
Yeah it sounds like a marketing ploy and even though I'm not an expert I feel like one :appl: after my 6 month search for a nice stone. Do you have a link to the GIA report? Those are some nice stones that 04diamond linked to as far as specks but you should also ask for an ASET image as well as a real image of the diamonds from whomever you decide to buy from.
 
I'll see the diamond in person on Monday at the store. Just trying to figure out if from the info provided this could in fact be a good deal. Why does the table need to be less than the depth.
 
Okay so I just read about the table and depth thing, I see what it's saying, but we're talking about 1.2% it's pretty dang close! He just emails me back with the following comments and details . The Gia number is 2116826076 He said its 200% eye clean, and 100% loupe clean what ever those terms mean. Looking forward to what the diamond brainiac gods have to say ....
 
Trent|1366984998|3434917 said:
I'll see the diamond in person on Monday at the store. Just trying to figure out if from the info provided this could in fact be a good deal. Why does the table need to be less than the depth.
Click to expand...


[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-should-table-be-smaller-than-depth.22436/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-should-table-be-smaller-than-depth.22436/[/URL]



Good explanation posted by Rhino in the above thread.

I am responsible for starting this and for very good reason.

First let me emphatically state that this is NOT a hard fast rule and never have I said it was. There are princess cuts out there with tables >= total depth that exhibit excellent optics. I''ve tested quite a few stones that demonstrate this. HOWEVER ... when we''re helping clients and searching for diamonds by the limited numberes provided on lab reports we can''t afford to waste our time or the clients dollars calling in stones that are potential losers and we stand a much greater chance at finding an optically superior stone whose table is less than the total depth than the opposite. Ie. if I call in 25 princess cuts and the table is greater than the total depth maybe... MAYBE 1 or 2 will have acceptable optics. Reverse the table/total depth combo and we increase our chances GREATLY.

At the same token I would be quick to point out that just because a princess cut has a table that is less than the total depth IS NO GUARANTEE of excellent optics either.

The most critical relationship is that between the crown and pavilion angles and as AGS has recently confirmed and pointed out there are 2 sets of crown angles to be considered and 2 sets of pavilion angles to be considered *at a minimum*. That''s if you''re strictly going by the numbers. If I were about to drop thousands of my hard earned dollars I would want an optical analysis for light performance.

If you have any further questions feel free to ask.

Regards,
 
Trent|1366985634|3434922 said:
Okay so I just read about the table and depth thing, I see what it's saying, but we're talking about 1.2% it's pretty dang close! He just emails me back with the following comments and details . The Gia number is 2116826076 He said its 200% eye clean, and 100% loupe clean what ever those terms mean. Looking forward to what the diamond brainiac gods have to say ....
Click to expand...


Well by definition it's a VS2 so it's supposed to be eye clean regardless. He's not really telling you anything new. Ask if he has an ASET image of the diamond and report back here with it if he does. The ppl around here will be able to tell you if it's a good performing princess on paper but you still would have to see it in person to judge it with your own eyes in various lighting conditions to confirm it though.
 
Would they have the capability to preform an optical analysis at the store......better question...."should they"
 
Email sent will report back this guy is pretty quick with responses.
 
Trent|1366985634|3434922 said:
Okay so I just read about the table and depth thing, I see what it's saying, but we're talking about 1.2% it's pretty dang close! He just emails me back with the following comments and details . The Gia number is 2116826076 He said its 200% eye clean, and 100% loupe clean what ever those terms mean. Looking forward to what the diamond brainiac gods have to say ....
Click to expand...

It sounds like this guy is desperate...another turn off for me. eye clean means that if you're looking at the stone in your hand (about 6 inches from your eye or 12) that you can't see anything. Loupe clean means that looking through a loupe, it's hard to see anything. A loupe is what jewelers/gemologist or PS nerds use to look at the inside of the diamond for inclusions etc.
 
Trent|1366986117|3434932 said:
Would they have the capability to preform an optical analysis at the store......better question...."should they"
Click to expand...

They should, absolutely, highly unlikely though. This is why we don't suggest getting a diamond from a B & M store. (*NOT INCLUDING ANY OF OUR VENDORS*).
 
Yeah he sounds like so many of the floor level jewelers in the NYC diamond district. He can't/wont explain things to you in a clear and precise manner but is hoping that you are uneducated in diamonds which most ppl are including me at one point. If he's having the diamond shipped in you can just go look at it for yourself but if they have a chain of stores I would think they have the capability to get an ASET image also.
 
Trent|1366986117|3434932 said:
Would they have the capability to preform an optical analysis at the store......better question...."should they"
Click to expand...

Would they? Not everyone has the capability or the tools.
Should they? Few are even aware of such things.
 
Do you all think I'm being to picky or paranoid in my diamond quest? Are my requirement within reason?
 
The store has only been open a month or two, so I could see a reason for them to try and build up a reputation in this market to get a foot hold. There are only 5 stores nation wide. I just want the best for her is all.
 
VS stones are almost always clean from all angles so the cloud is not something I would be worried about. The problem is that GIA tells you nothing about a fancy stone's light performance. Unless you get the ASET, your other option is to shop for an AGS princess cut where the lab has already taken the guesswork out for you.
 
Trent|1366987553|3434953 said:
Link to GIA report

http://www.gia.edu/otmm_wcs_int/proxy-pdf/?ReportNumber=2116826076&url=https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPOC/pocservlet?ReportNumber=2116826076

Anything in there I should worry about, like those clouds?
Click to expand...
'

It's truly difficult to determine anything regarding performance from the report alone. As others have said, an ASET image would be incredibly helpful. If the store doesn't have the tools, you can purchase one yourself for $50 or something like that.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp?Ref=pricescope


Is it possible for your vendor to bring in some AGS0 stones for you? AGS is the only lab that is grading cut for princess cuts at this time. I think it would save you a lot of leg work to simply ask him to bring a couple in for you. You can then compare them side by side with other GIA stones and see for yourself if you notice a difference in performance. I'd also suggest that you view any stones in multiple lighting conditions. Jewelry store lighting makes even the poorest cut stones appear to sparkle. Ask to see the stone outside in direct sunlight, in office lighting etc.

As for the vendor saying that he would knock $2k off the stone....I don't find this unusual for BM stores at all. In fact I haven't looked at a single diamond at a BM that the price wasn't significantly discounted if I chose to buy then and there. They do this to make it appear that they are offering you a wonderful deal that you can't or won't find somewhere else. It's simply a sales tactic, if you truly want to know if you are getting a fair price, do a diamond search (Located under the resources tab at the top of the page) and compare similar stones to see what other vendors are selling similar quality stones for. It appears that they are a young business and are trying to compete for your business, there isn't really anything unusual about that. =) Do lots of research, understand what it is that you are looking for, compare prices, and don't be afraid to ask for help if you aren't sure. You are already doing all the right things, so you are way ahead of many diamond buying consumers. =)

Just out of curiosity, are you interested in working with an online vendor?
 
His response ..

I can send you a nice video of it  , I’m not familiar with ASET images I’m sorry ..
There is nothing better than seen the diamond with your own eyes believe me
 
I'm not really interested in working with an online vendor because of the warranty, work, and financing options available with the b and m, also other advantages of dealing with a b and m
 
Trent|1366989114|3434977 said:
His response ..

I can send you a nice video of it  , I’m not familiar with ASET images I’m sorry ..
There is nothing better than seen the diamond with your own eyes believe me
Click to expand...
I agree that your eyes are ultimately the best tool, however if you aren't trained or know what to look for, significant things can get over looked. I'd really like to see him offer to do a side by side video comparison of multiple stones, preferably with a couple of AGS0 stones, so that differences (if any) are more apparent.
 
I would read the warranty with a fine toothed comb - there are many exceptions and if not followed down to the last dot, will null the warranty. As for seeing it with your own eyes, if you don't know what to look for or have never seen an ideal cut diamond, even a mediocre diamond looks fabulous to the untrained eye.
 
Trent|1366989665|3434981 said:
I'm not really interested in working with an online vendor because of the warranty, work, and financing options available with the b and m, also other advantages of dealing with a b and m
Click to expand...

It's not for everyone and you certainly need to feel very comfortable making such a large and important decision online. That said, I'd also caution you to consider that this particular vendor is new, what happens to your warranties, upgrades etc, should this business not be around in a few years? Also, since they are very new they don't have a proven track record, good or bad, to consider. Online vendors, in my experience, typically have much better warranty, buy back, trade in, and upgrade policies. This may be a valuable add on for you to consider, and it may not. If you plan to upgrade at some time in the future though, I would encourage to not only shop price but also what each vendor offers you after the sale. It's also extremely important to only purchase with a full 100% return policy. This will give you an opportunity to live with the stone for an amount of time and have it appropriately appraised to be sure that it's the best choice for you. Lastly, if it's a consideration, many online vendors are offering financing as well. BGD, JA, BN are a few that I'm aware of. WF I believe has a sort of payment schedule where the balance can be paid off in a certain amount of time interest free (I believe).
 
Chrono|1366989922|3434986 said:
I would read the warranty with a fine toothed comb - there are many exceptions and if not followed down to the last dot, will null the warranty. As for seeing it with your own eyes, if you don't know what to look for or have never seen an ideal cut diamond, even a mediocre diamond looks fabulous to the untrained eye.
Click to expand...

:lol: I'm just going to follow Chrono around and ditto everything that she says.
 
Trent|1366989114|3434977 said:
His response ..

I can send you a nice video of it  , I’m not familiar with ASET images I’m sorry ..
There is nothing better than seen the diamond with your own eyes believe me
Click to expand...

I've been reading for a couple months and I know perfectly well and have a good understanding of how valuable an Aset image can be especially when purchasing a princess cut without actually seeing it. I can understand for the jeweler to say that they don't offer it or have the tool but to say they are not familiar with it seems strange. Or maybe I have been reading on here too much. Is this just a salesperson or someone that really knows about diamonds, since most of the sales ppl that I encountered in stores don't seem to know much about the diamonds they sell IMO. Am I being too critical about this vendor??? I was weary of buying online at first but now that I have I don't think I will buy another piece of expensive jewelry in a B&M. You save a whole lot more on the net and I think the warranty/policies are even better.
 
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