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Trump Is Threatening To Close The Border

@Dancing Fire , In my opinion, many of your posts lack empathy and compassion. My guess is it was suggested for you to go to the local food pantry to see for yourself the people who benefit from their services. This in turn may change your view and help you find empathy and compassion for those families who need help. Children need food to survive.
 
Calliecake said:
@Dancing Fire , In my opinion, many of your posts lack empathy and compassion. My guess is it was suggested for you to go to the local food pantry to see for yourself the people who benefit from their services. This in turn may change your view and help you find empathy and compassion for those families who need help. Children need food to survive.
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Oh I'd agree, now tell the parents to get a job and feed their kids. My daughters didn't grow up from foods falling down from the sky. IMO, it should be the parent's responsibility for upbringing of their children.
 
It would be wonderful if everyone who needs help, had family to help them out. Many people do, and that is wonderful. But from my brief experience volunteering at homeless shelters in college, and in the last 15 years working at the VA, many people do not have that family support. It can be for many reasons. Relocating for jobs, but then losing that job. Leaving an abusive domestic situation, either as as a spouse/partner, OR as a minor. When that person who leaves also has children, they are in an almost impossible situation, both needing care for their children AND the ability to make money. Divorces. Elderly people on extremely limited incomes. Also people with mental illness, or substance abuse and addiction problems. It is unrealistic and uncaring to expect family to shoulder the burden of what are societies responsibilities, basic social safety nets and public health needs. There have always been people in any society, who need additional help. In fact everyone, at some point of their life needs help, whether that is as an infant, during illness, or when aged. The people who have had the resources and support of family to be taken care of during those times are the LUCKY ones. To say that everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps is callous and willful ignorance.
 
and I just want to say, whether you believe in God or not, those who have had the youth, health, brains, stamina and -yes- stable family to make it and succeed, should thank their lucky stars because those are GIFTS. Those who are now in a position to help their own children should be thankful -those are BLESSINGS. No one is an island. To think anyone got where they are ,completely on their own, is an illusion.
 
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Thank you for putting this perfectly into words @partgypsy . Unfortunately I’m afraid it will fall on deaf ears for the people who need to hear and understand this.
 
partgypsy said:
In fact everyone, at some point of their life needs help, whether that is as an infant, during illness, or when aged. The people who have had the resources and support of family to be taken care of during those times are the LUCKY ones. To say that everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps is callous and willful ignorance.
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That is true!. That's the reason why I support short term social assistance but not long term.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Oh I'd agree, now tell the parents to get a job and feed their kids. My daughters didn't grow up from foods falling down from the sky. IMO, it should be the parent's responsibility for upbringing of their children.
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I COMPLETELY agree with this.

So I'd like to suggest we pay no taxes for public schooling. I don't have kids, so I have no idea why I need to pay to educate everyone else's.

I live in an extremely safe area. To the best of my knowledge, I've never committed a crime. So I don't want to fund the FBI. Frankly, I'm iffy on the CIA, the armed forces in general, and pretty much all the oversight committees in parliament. I'm happy to contribute to NASA, national parks and museums, and anything to do with food stamps. But I don't want to put a single penny towards discretionary spending. Where do I send my letter telling the government I'm done with that?

I also only have one car. So I'd like to suggest that we pay our contribution to road taxes per vehicle. I'd save a LOT of money. (This user pay thing is AWESOME!)

By the way - I'm an immigrant. Since all the immigrants are apparently getting free housing etc, where do I send my invoice? I didn't get ANY of that!

And speaking of ridiculous....

In February 2018 the Democrats offered Trump $25 bn for a wall and border security. Let that sink in. Twenty Five Billion. All he had to do was pass bi-partisan legislation put forward by a bi-partisan committee of 16, formed to address the issue and craft legislation acceptable to the senate. Exactly half the committee were GOP members. Trump scuttled their proposed legislation, despite having said on various occasions the previous year that he wanted to see exactly this legislation from congress. My best guess is he was cranky that congress wouldn't support his push to limit immigration, thereby saving him from having to give permanent residence to his in-laws. I mean - let's be honest - they've GOT to hate him. Can you even imagine Christmas dinner??

And now the Democrats control the house and Trump can't get $5 bn.

Man's an idiot. 'The art of the deal' my fat aunt....
 
Just keep on defending the illegals. To me it doesn't matter the color of their skins wrong is wrong.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Just keep on defending the illegals. To me it doesn't matter the color of their skins wrong is wrong.
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You've shown again and again that it deeply matters what their ethnicity is to you. That's why you blow your racist dog whistle: to imply that only certain "illegals" are a grave danger because they commit crime. You rail against "illegal immigration" when it is people from Central/South America but you say nothing of other illegal immigration.

From the article I linked to (a few times):

"I realized this is open secret in Chinese immigrant community ... many Chinese people making asylum fraud," he says.

You claim to have deep ties to the Chinese immigrant community - do tell us about all the immigration fraud going on.
 
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Dancing Fire said:
FYI, IMO, This should have been stop a long time ago!. :clap: I posted my opinion on this topic a few yrs ago not just now.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/25721/feds-raid-20-chinese-immigrant-birth-hotels-los-joseph-curl

Read my post #6, so stop calling me racist!. :angryfire:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/issue-1-immigration-reform.226390/
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If you don't want to be called out as a racist, stop acting like one. Your post #6 has nothing to do with what you posted today. The implication of your post today is that the border needs to be closed (the title of this thread) because "dems" want more "illegals" who are all murderers.

The link I posted had nothing at all to do with immigration birth hotels. It has to do with asylum fraud. If you want to discuss the article I linked to you will need to read it first.

I will call out racism wherever I see it. You can block me if you don't want to hear me call out your racist posts.
 
Maria D said:
If you don't want to be called out as a racist, stop acting like one. Your post #6 has nothing to do with what you posted today. .

I will call out racism wherever I see it. You can block me if you don't want to hear me call out your racist posts.
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I'm still for issuing green cards to "all of the dreamers" who doesn't have a felony record. Unlike the liberals here I do not block any members whether we disagree or not.
 
Dancing Fire said:
FYI, IMO, This should have been stop a long time ago!. :clap: I posted my opinion on this topic a few yrs ago not just now.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/25721/feds-raid-20-chinese-immigrant-birth-hotels-los-joseph-curl

Read my post #6, so stop calling me racist!. :angryfire:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/issue-1-immigration-reform.226390/
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Suck it up, snowflake.

Alternately, try not calling me stupid, or implying I'm weak, or uninformed, or out to get something for nothing, or am a bleeding heart, or any and ALL manner of insults Republicans call me on a daily basis.

And quit using "Lib', or liberal, or 'Dem' as though it's a euphemism for stupid. For what it's worth, I don't think you're racist, Dancing Fire. I just think you're a trouble maker. And the world has enough of those right now.
 
mrs-b said:
And quit using "Lib', or liberal, or 'Dem' as though it's a euphemism for stupid. For what it's worth, I don't think you're racist, Dancing Fire. I just think you're a trouble maker. And the world has enough of those right now.
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Thank you! :praise:
 
@Dancing Fire , I don’t recall you being nearly as upset when crimes are committed by white men. You constantly bring up an articles where an illegal person from Mexico committed a crime and you bring up crimes committed in Chicago by black men. Crimes are committed everyday by white men yet those stories are of no concern to you.

I LOVED your post @mrs-b . I get the same comments from @Dancing Fire all the time.
 
Anecdotes are just that, an anecdote. We should not be crafting domestic or foreign policy based on anecdotes. Myself, my background is science. What do the numbers tell us? Immigrant, and illegal immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime than Americans. Trump says things to stoke racial and immigrant tensions, including lying that immigrants are causing some wave of crime to occur. Nope. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lly-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.d6e9dd595243

What is worrying, is that the Trump Administration does not want to look at science-based or evidence-based reasons for government projects. He doesn't care if this program works or this program doesn't work. He wants to use political reasons for funding. It is evident for things like climate change and EPA, and yes the wall (immigration policy). What this means is that our tax dollars are being wasted. They are going to be diverted from things that actually matter, things that WORK and give us good value for the dollar, to pet projects or things that enrich his ego, his friends and donors. That's wrong.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...nce-based-policies-regarding-social-problems/
 
partgypsy said:
Anecdotes are just that, an anecdote. We should not be crafting domestic or foreign policy based on anecdotes. Myself, my background is science. What do the numbers tell us? Immigrant, and illegal immigrants are LESS likely to commit crime than Americans. Trump says things to stoke racial and immigrant tensions, including lying that immigrants are causing some wave of crime to occur. Nope. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lly-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.d6e9dd595243

What is worrying, is that the Trump Administration does not want to look at science-based or evidence-based reasons for government projects. He doesn't care if this program works or this program doesn't work. He wants to use political reasons for funding. It is evident for things like climate change and EPA, and yes the wall (immigration policy). What this means is that our tax dollars are being wasted. They are going to be diverted from things that actually matter, things that WORK and give us good value for the dollar, to pet projects or things that enrich his ego, his friends and donors. That's wrong.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...nce-based-policies-regarding-social-problems/
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And people like @Dancing Fire try to spread the hate with racist, dog-whistling posts. It doesn't appear to be working here, which is nice to see.

Most US citizens and congressional representatives DO want solutions to our immigration problems including border security. We don't want to build Trump's vanity wall. On this democrat and republican representatives seem to agree - when the republicans had full power they would not fund it.

Yes, it is very worrying. Thanks for the links @partgypsy .
 
Maria D said:
And people like @Dancing Fire try to spread the hate with racist, dog-whistling posts. It doesn't appear to be working here, which is nice to see.
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b/c the 3 Rep. whom used to post here are now too afraid to speak up against the Dems. They can't take the heat. :lol:
 
Everyone, we have spent half of our week sending warnings and moderating this thread, and responding to emails about this thread. And I know we still have not been able to answer everyone . If the racist comments do not stop, this thread will be closed and timeouts will be given.

Keep it clean or lose privileges. It’s not ok to pit one racial group against another. That is how we end up with another Holocaust
 
partgypsy said:
and I just want to say, whether you believe in God or not, those who have had the youth, health, brains, stamina and -yes- stable family to make it and succeed, should thank their lucky stars because those are GIFTS. Those who are now in a position to help their own children should be thankful -those are BLESSINGS. No one is an island. To think anyone got where they are ,completely on their own, is an illusion.
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Great post.
Uhhuh.gif
 
Partgypsy: Many of your post are eloquent and appropriately speak of real caring and passion.

Maria D and others also say things I can appreciate.

I stay away from commenting much on these threads as I no longer enjoy a constant back and fourth on many of the same things over and over. If someone is of a fixed opinion - they will not change their mind if they feel attacked in any way. However, here are my general thoughts and comments:

1) All of us have violated some law at some time (some of them frequently - such as speed limit); and all of us could be prosecuted for state and federal crimes if someone cared enough to fully investigate and file the charges. That makes us all "Illegals" for something.

The question is in my mind what is the level of the illegality.... Example: There is a difference between speeding and murder; as with many other crimes (and a speeding or other traffic ticket on an Indian reservation and certain other federal properties is a federal offense and will go into your record as such) I'm not going to bother listing or trying to rank all of the possible crimes.

I may be a bit more knowledgeable on some of the practical aspects of this as I have a nuclear plant security clearance and for years supervised people who had such clearances where I was the supervisor who "approved" their right to have access. A great many people have various minor convictions and are granted such clearances; and being charged with a large number of things will not automatically suspend your clearance as long as you report it (not reporting it will kill your clearance - a matter or trustworthiness).

I am also a licensed blaster (explosives); which also requires a criminal history review. Again, you can become a licensed blaster in every state in the USA with certain convictions (but not with others).

People make mistakes, or get caught in situations they do not understand. Our legal system and even clearance systems account for that. I do not understand why people outside of those circles have different standards.

2) Someone who is seeking or has claimed Asylum is not here illegally. They actually complied with the law.

3) Some people will always use differences to claim they are superior. Isolated facts (or pieces of facts) are their friend. They don't want to consider other facts. In reality, none of us want to consider all facts. But, many are open to consider most facts, and are willing to change positions (even if slightly) based on new information.

4) I find it amusing that there are people who claim that people from various parties or beliefs cannot participate here. I'm here and Lets face it: I'm controversial among many here as I see the world differently than many and also enjoy being and investigating the "line" on certain things (to me it allows me to gain a better understanding) which some do not understand. I don't think there is anyone here who has met me in person. I suspect that most of you would find me a decent fellow if we hung out a while in person.

Yet, I am here - although I do not routinely post (and often just browse in private).

5) I now consider myself conservative (I considered myself liberal when I was much younger). But, to me being conservative means that you do have compassion and caring for people. That you do try to improve the world. The difference to me is that I do not see it as the responsibility of the Federal or State Government to be the solutions to many problems that generally liberals feel the government to solve. I only expect that the Federal or State Governments to enable solutions, and ensure that they are fairly available. I expect that individuals and certain charitable organizations take the lead in helping people in their area.

I believe that the federal budget should largely be restricted to activities principally defined in the constitution as federal government activities. That there are only a few areas of legitimate extension beyond that (I do consider the EPA legitimate - there is a real national value to having a good environment).

Related to this: I no longer see the Republican Party as having conservative values. It appears to me that many older Republican Politicians are leaving for the same reason.

6) I view many of the what started as the "Great Society" Programs to help the poor and disadvantages to be failures; and in fact some have created more problems than they solved (making people more dependent versus helping them become independent). That does not mean they were bad ideas at the time. Just that they were not the right answer for the problem; and continuing those programs in their current form is not helping America.

We need to try new ideas on how to solve some of those issues. Successful people become successful people by learning from their failures and changing. The people who started those programs saw a need and had an idea at the time that made sense based on what was known. They tried their best. Now lets try other things as the problem is still out there.

7) A fundamental problem is how our current job market is structured; which drives companies towards using part time positions for many situations where there could be full time employees (there is a place for part time positions; but the ratios are way out of wack for many companies).

8) There are many other issues and items (and over the years I have posted on many subjects). No need to re-post them here. In my case - I tend to think about issues a lot before I post. I look for other creative solutions to issues (example: licensing of large capacity magazines similar to machine gun licenses to reduce certain kinds of gun violence).

9) Finally, in regards to the border issue: I personally see a lessening from previous problems; and no clear cut solutions to existing problems. Closing the border will not actually help much; and likely create other problems more severe than leaving it open (pay attention to likely unintended consequences).

In addition, I believe the reason Trump has not issues his executive order is that he has been told that there is no real chance that it would stand up in court (an executive order to nationalize the US Steel Industry in WW II due to the war emergency and war production needs was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court). So his talking about it appeals to his base; but, it would never be implemented as there is no evidence or a real urgent emergency...

I wish all of you the best and keep posting,

Perry
 
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