True vintage vs. Replica?

[Green with Envy]

My new obsession with vintage/ estate pieces and old cut diamonds leads me to this question...

What are peoples opinions... pros/cons.. about buying true vintage diamonds/ settings vs. replicas?

What are YOUR preferences? No right or wrong answers here... just curious what other Ps''ers think, like or dislike, about old stuff. This is what I have been thinking...

Vintage usually is excellent workmanship, but not always, and sometimes more delicate due to years of wear and you might have to be more careful with piece. In long run is HIGH QUALITY replica better because less need to be gentle with piece?

Are replicas like getting a fake designer handbag? Maybe you can find a really nice looking one and few can tell the difference... but it is still "fake." Is it better to spend more $ and take more time looking for just the right vintage piece?

Ok- I see no other side of the arguement that true vintage has a history that you will not get with a replica. If you are into the history- I get it.

Prices... is it worth more money to buy vintage with equal quality of setting and diamond... or should you spend more for a very well done replica set with an awesome loose old cut stone? Comparing apples to apples (diamonds with similar 4''c''s)... what deserves the $$ premium?

Any other thoughts on why go vinatge vs replica???

 

[Rhea]

I''m a purist (or snob, whichever) and prefer true antique or vintage. Recently I was looking for OECs for earrings and Ari at Singlestone offered a good price on newly cut OECs, which were beautiful, but just not me. For me, it''s not just the beauty of the piece but also the antiqueness. I can''t explain why, I know it''s not rational, but it is something I feel pretty strongly about.

That being said, my e-ring setting needs some repairing and after putting it off and having it redone once I''m not sure how much it can hold up so I''m probably just going to have the stones taken out and reset (even the smaller sidestones) in a newer piece in the next few years. Restoring it just isn''t going as I want it and at some point I''m going to have to face this (and deal with a maker''s hallmark in the band - the horror!!)...maybe.

To me it''s a lot like building a home in the Tudor style, which I love. If I see a Tudor house I''m thrilled, they are beautiful. If I see a Tudor style house I laugh, you can typically tell. It seems really silly to me to build a Tutor style house. Although I probably feel more strongly about Tudor style houses than I do about antique style jewellery.

Pros/cons of antique: it has history and is unique, but can be tough to restore and you don''t always get exactly what you want.

Pros/cons of newness: you can typically get exactly what you want and shouldn''t have to worry about faults in stones/metals, but the uniqueness is out the window.

 

[jewelerman]

Vintage and antique jewelry is my favorite jewelry area of of both study and collecting!There has been a great demand in the last decade for late victorian and edwardian style engagement rings and jewelry...there is only so much true vintage and antique jewelry left available to the general buying public that is top quality, wearable and affordable.There is alot of jewelry that should be collected but no longer should be put through daily wear,so replicas are a great way to go for durability,price and easy access to finding exactly what you want to fit your taste and lifestyle.In the past i have helped people who want their jewelry identified and they assume that because its old that it has quality and high value. Before you begin collecting and spending your hard earned money educate yourself on metals,gem quality, popular styles and what era they where worn because not all jewelry in stores or on the intern are represented correctly. As you shop in the beginning,buy from stores that have a return policy so you can return the item if a second appraisal or additional study proves that the piece is not what they were represented to be or over priced.Be careful not to get caught up in the moment and buy a piece based on emotion.Get metal,gem,era, and if its a replica in writing on a reciept so you have informaion for your insurance company and also a legal document to return the item if needed.Also look for repairs and damage on metal or stones...dont buy chipped gems or metals that has been lead souldered.A repaired or altered piece is less valuable but is still desirable if its wearable and priced accordingly.Good Luck on starting a collection!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would enjoy the fun of collecting antique pieces if I had the time and money! But as far as the rings and jewelry I wear daily, I''d prefer well made reproductions other than family heirlooms, of course. I''d be totally happy with a newly cut old style cushion like Boston Jeff''s, for example. I really wouldn''t be comfortable with chipped diamonds and settings that were worn really thin on the shank. If you can find very well made pieces in excellent condition, then the real antiques would be wonderful, though!

 

[Green with Envy]

I guess I am sort of struggling with this concept and how to you figure $ cost and value because the thing is... vintage does not necessarily mean unique.

In fact... the more I look I start to feel like vintage pieces are very similar. Just because old, not always one of a kind. Ya know?

 

[diagem]

There are quite a few very high end jewelers who design new high quality 'hand made' jewelry which consist the craftsmanship and techniques of the old days!
It does not mean it is antique or vintage 'replicas', (am I wrong thinking replicas are a specific copy of a specific design??)

Again..., newly cut Old-Cuts are not necessarily replicas..., they are fancy cuts just like any other..., (yes, I think OEC's are a type of fancy cut too...

)

Take as an (extreme) example Joel Arthur Rosenthal, better known as JAR...
He designs great jewelry using (also) materials from antiquity..., he incorporates many times Silver in his designs (used commonly prior to the 19th. Century), genuine antique gems (when ever he locates them, they are not easily found these days)..., and I believe newly cut old-cuts incorporate some of his designs!
Even some of his stone settings are based on old hand made techniques. After all..., he is the "King of Pave"!

Another great example is the contemporary jewelry designer Martin Katz..., he incorporates genuine antique and newly cut old-cuts in his designs as well.

Now both designers are by all means no followers..., on the contrary..., they are leaders in jewelry designs!

I must admit I have noticed that quite a few jewelry clients have been hungry for newly old-cut type gems set in modern high quality jewelry!!!
Its an interesting concept when executed correctly.

 

[oldminer]

When it comes to a choice in selecting a true vintage mounting or a new stylized reproduction of an older style, the choice has been very clearly expressed already. DO you want the authenticity of the original or would you prefer the greater potential durability of the new mounting? Do you prefer the delicacy of an old mounting or the usually more solid lines of a newer piece?

There is no way to get the benefits of either choice totally in the other. There will be trade-offs.

When it comes to diamonds, every one of them is "vintage". How each is cut changes how they look and I definitely prefer an old cut style in an authentically vintage piece. When a diamond is set in a modern ring, even if it is an older style, a modern cut diamond may be perfectly suitable.

People often think they want a complicated engagement design, but over time, most people come to like greater simplicity. What you like when you are 20 may be very different when you are 35 or 40. Be sure you like your choice NOW and let time have its way with you. There are always going to be birthdays and anniversaries where changing a mounting is very welcome as a nice gift.

 

[LGK]

I work at an antique mall that has dealers selling antique settings, so I see them all day every day, and of course I've got my own opinions about them. First, I do think you can get a lovely antique filigree setting for less than you'd spend on a new similar piece (not speaking to the diamond really, just the setting.)

One thing you can get with a vintage setting that you cannot easily new is a die cast setting with hand piercing, and tiny, tiny millgrain and beautiful hand engraving. The hand workmanship like piercing, engraving & millgrain, etc. was something that was done more commonly on old filigree pieces. Also, most antique filigree rings were done as die casts, whereas new filigree is almost always done with lost wax casting or a mold. The die cast creates a very thin very strong and delicate ring, with wonderful detail. I believe Van Craeynest does die casting but I'm not sure if anyone else does it. And if you browse the Van Craeynest site you can see the detail that genuine antique-type workmanship creates vs. the more common molded rings. If I were to buy a new replica setting I would go with Van Craeynest because they do make rings like antique ones were made, with the hand piercing, hand engraving, the exquisitely tiny millgrain, and the die casting. That being said, antique filigree settings are usually more affordable than Van Craeynest's!

The millgrain and/or engraving work on most newer rings (excepting VC's) is either bigger and less delicate than old millgrain & engraving, or on the cheaper rings, the millgrain is actually part of the mold and not hand done (eeek! I hate that look!) However you can find lovely new rings with engraving and all that.. it just isn't quite as perfect as the antique style, IMO.

But yeah, you might have to spend some time looking for the perfect antique piece, and even more if you're looking for one with the original diamond. And some will need work, repointing, reshanking, etc. And some will be too worn.

The cons about buying antiques? Well, it can be tough to find the perfect thing, especially if you're looking for an empty setting for a diamond you already have. And if you like round brilliant rather than old cuts, you're probably going to have to go that route, or possbly find an empty setting, and then buy a new diamond to fit the setting... Plus if you're looking for a larger stone it might take even longer, as many antique pieces have 1 carat and much smaller sizes as the center stone.

 

[Upgradable]

I have an affection for the style, quality, and workmanship represented in vintage pieces, but a good quality piece can be very hard to come by. I also love creating my own pieces, what I call recycling parts of the past.

I''m currently collecting OEC stones between 4-4.5mm with hopes of creating a five stone ring in a vintage style. I''m not having much luck locating settings. Can anyone offer suggestions on where to find vintage or repro setting for a five stone? This is the type I am looking for.

 

[surfgirl]

Upgradeable, you should contact Ari at Single Stone and ask him about your setting. He fabricates a lot of the repro vintage settings that are used in many high end antique/estate shops in major cities across the country...They get their repro settings from Ari so he probably has 5 stone setting option(s) in stock, and if not, he can create a prototype based on what you want. He''s very easy to work with, IMO.

As to GWE''s initial query, I think these days it is very difficult to really know for certain if a setting is actually antique/vintage. I recently saw some "antique" settings and then saw something very similar elsewhere and it was a repro and if I hadn''t been told it was repro, I''d have believed it was authentic because the attention to details such as patina, was totally believable. So I just go on the stones in the setting. Unless a piece has maker''s marks that are identifiable in terms of date/place/maker, it''s really a crap shoot. It all comes down to whether someone loves the piece or not.

 

[oldminer]

The "fishtail style" wedding ring in the above photo is not better as an old ring. Just make it easy on yourself and buy a new one using the diamonds you are hunting down to make it. There is nothing unusual about this style of relatively standard design that would make looking for an old one special.

 

[Upgradable]

Dave, can you give me some indication of where to find a new mounting? The only one I have located is through Stuller, and it looks rather bland.

 

[Upgradable]

These are the only two options I''ve currently located.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I know I struggled with the "antique piece vs. antique replica" problem. I think it just comes down to preferences. For my e-ring, I decided to go with a ring that was designed by the jeweller in the 1930''s, but remade today. That way I was able to get a genuine 1930''s design, but was able to choose my own stones. My issue with estate pieces were that the color was always too low for my preference and I really wanted to choose my center stone.

For a right hand ring or a band, I would probably be more willing to do a genuine estate piece. In fact, I''ve wanted to buy 2 estate sapphire eternity bands, but both were sold by the time the vendor got back to me.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/13/2008 2:36:28 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I know I struggled with the ''antique piece vs. antique replica'' problem. I think it just comes down to preferences. For my e-ring, I decided to go with a ring that was designed by the jeweller in the 1930''s, but remade today. That way I was able to get a genuine 1930''s design, but was able to choose my own stones. My issue with estate pieces were that the color was always too low for my preference and I really wanted to choose my center stone.

For a right hand ring or a band, I would probably be more willing to do a genuine estate piece. In fact, I''ve wanted to buy 2 estate sapphire eternity bands, but both were sold by the time the vendor got back to me.

BTW..., one major issue which caused that was the fact that the high quality colorless antique Diamonds were re-cut to modern Diamonds...

The lower quality ones were not economic for that purpose....