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True or False: cut of melee diamonds do not matter

boxbits

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
69
Hi PSers,

I recently asked a popular vendor about the cut of the melee diamonds in an eternity band.

This was the response:

Unless otherwise specified, the cut and overall proportions of the diamonds in our wedding bands will be good. At this size, the eye cannot perceive the difference between a good or excellent cut, so it would be cost prohibitive to try to source excellent cut diamonds to build into these rings.Is this true?
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
3,799
I assume that yes, at some point it is going to be 'cost prohibited', but that would depend on the size. I've seen a few eternity bands that do not sparkle as much, because they were made with highly included or poorly cut diamonds (or both!). However these were with slightly larger stones, not pave size or anything.
 

boxbits

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
69
Thanks for the response, Telephone.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the eternity has 5 pt diamonds. So not huge, but not tiny tiny either.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,501
Cut is important for any size, and for Melee also. It is easy to proof.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,175
Serg|1457387344|4001182 said:
Cut is important for any size, and for Melee also. It is easy to proof.
+1

I agree- there's definitely poorly made melee on the market, and it definitely affects how the stones work in jewelry- particularly fine pave work. It also affect price.

If you're getting low quotes for a ring, this could be the cause.
 

RockBrat

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
116
I can tell the difference in even 1 pointers. So cut is important for melee.
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,565

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
Cut is ALWAYS important.

I call Prunes and Balderdash on the vendor who told you it is not.

However, there is a little known fact about smalls that Garry Holloway showed me when we met in Dallas for John Pollard's wedding lo those many years ago.

Garry showed me a box of diamonds that were H&A cuts I think there were about 100 of them in a plastic topped box but it could have been more, or less. In a nice rectangle or a square, I do not remember which.

He also had a box of diamonds that were well cut single cuts of the same size, number and shape of presentation.

I expected the H&A to outperform the single cuts. Wrong.

In the very small sizes, the H&A cuts have such small facets that they return only tiny sparkles of light, whereas the single cuts have much larger pavilion facets. This results in larger flashes of white light when shown side by side with the H&A cuts.

Maybe Garry will see this and remind me of the sizes and numbers of diamonds and perhaps could show us a photograph of the two side by side if he still has them. It was an illuminating moment for me.

So, provided that the single cuts are well cut too, they can actually provide you with larger sparkle.

Just a thought to consider.

Wink
 

boxbits

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
69
kenny|1457461199|4001632 said:
boxbits|1457391661|4001232 said:
Am I allowed to post the vendor?
Yes.
The vendor is Blue Nile. Before I get flamed for "should have known better", I did! Especially based on all the information available on this forum. But I was curious as to what the answer would be and was surprised by the supplemental reason given.
 

Michael_E

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,290
boxbits|1457385673|4001170 said:
Unless otherwise specified, the cut and overall proportions of the diamonds in our wedding bands will be good. At this size, the eye cannot perceive the difference between a good or excellent cut, so it would be cost prohibitive to try to source excellent cut diamonds to build into these rings.Is this true?
Yes, in a way it is true. Cut matters, but the difference between a good cut and an excellent cut is truly not as important in melee. The reason for this is that the difference is slight at this scale and is not really something that most sellers will actually grade closely. Even if you buy "excellent" cut melee there is a range of acceptable depth percentages which will fall into that category. No one actually measures all of the angles on each stone in a melee parcel. At best they are measuring diameter, total depth, eyeballing the depth percentages in a side view and laying out the parcel together in order to make sure that they are all consistent. In reality, given a good cut, (meaning nice bright sparkly reflections and no dead dogs), the most important thing is the consistency of how they all look TOGETHER. In looking at a piece with lots of melee, it is only possible to tell about how they are cut, (assuming a good cut), when comparing them to each other, since you can't see any indication of angles or depth percentages once mounted. This becomes less true as the melee gets larger and once they get up to around 20 points the differences do stand out more. Lots of variables here and with small, consistent melee I highly doubt that anyone could tell the difference between good and excellent cuts.
 

rossi46

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
36
Wink|1457392617|4001240 said:
In the very small sizes, the H&A cuts have such small facets that they return only tiny sparkles of light, whereas the single cuts have much larger pavilion facets. This results in larger flashes of white light when shown side by side with the H&A cuts.

So, provided that the single cuts are well cut too, they can actually provide you with larger sparkle.
Wink, that is super interesting. Thank you for posting.

Do you know to what size this holds true? Are we talking only 1pt? Or also 5pts and up?

At what carat weight would you always choose a "super ideal" H&A melee over a single cut?
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,465
Another issue is there is no standardization in melee cuts one suppliers standard cut may be better cut on average then another suppliers premium cut.
Personally I like Garry's method, us IS/aset to quickly select which lot to buy by looking at a representative sample.
Such a lot will be as good looking as the most stringent h&a melee.

One reason there are some awesome lots of single cuts on the market are the watch companies use them and are extremely fussy about them. They are expensive however and usually must be bought in bigger lots.
The most expensive round melee of any given size color and clarity will be matched sets of these single cuts followed by the h&a stones.
Which brings up another issue matched sets will be more expensive than other lots of melee.
 
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