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"Trigger point dry needling"

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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Had this procedure performed on my lumbar spine yesterday for the first time, and it was awkward to say the least, but I have noticed a bit of decrease in the shooting nerve pain in my legs this morning. :appl:

I go back for another round on Wednesday in the lumbar and neck. Just curious if anyone else has had this type of treatment, and how long the benefits lasted (temp or long-term/permanent). :wavey:
 

redwood66

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What is this procedure? I am glad you have less pain as a result.
 

the_mother_thing

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Clinical read: http://www.apta.org/StateIssues/DryNeedling/ClinicalPracticeResourcePaper/

Consumer overview (but not my PT clinic): http://www.moveforwardpt.com/resources/detail/dry-needling-by-physical-therapist-what-you-should#.VeXk0yVVikq

Excerpt: "Dry needling is a technique physical therapists use (where allowed by state law) to treat myofascial pain. The technique uses a “dry” needle, one without medication or injection, inserted through the skin into areas of the muscle, known as trigger points.

Other terms commonly used to describe dry needling, include trigger point dry needling, and intramuscular manual therapy.

Dry needling is not acupuncture, a practice based on traditional Chinese medicine and performed by acupuncturists. Dry needling is a part of modern Western medicine principles, and supported by research 1."
 

distracts

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I've never heard of this. Sounds interesting. I've had myofascial massages before and I swear it relieved pain I didn't even know I felt until it was gone, much different than a regular massage. Had no idea it could go even further.

Did it hurt? The internet says it won't hurt but... I am skeptical, because needles. :errrr: Hope the next round reduces the pain even more.
 

redwood66

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distracts|1481419560|4106221 said:
Did it hurt? The internet says it won't hurt but... I am skeptical, because needles. :errrr:
Yes this. I have such a fear of needles but I have so much pain in my low back and right leg all the time. I get a muscle lock up in my leg that my neurosurgeon says is like a severe charlie horse at least 3 time a week when I am sleeping. They wake me up and I am near tears because the pain is so bad.
 

the_mother_thing

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distracts|1481419560|4106221 said:
I've never heard of this. Sounds interesting. I've had myofascial massages before and I swear it relieved pain I didn't even know I felt until it was gone, much different than a regular massage. Had no idea it could go even further.

Did it hurt? The internet says it won't hurt but... I am skeptical, because needles. :errrr: Hope the next round reduces the pain even more.
:wavey: And I learned something from you - I didn't know there was such a thing as 'myofascial massage'; is that the same as deep tissue? Is it only performed via a PT, or is it available in non-"medical" settings? I would probably benefit from that as well; I try to get regular medium/deep tissue massages, but when the flare-ups are acute, I am leery of anyone's hands on my back & neck.

The needles going in didn't 'hurt' per se; I didn't even feel them go in really. Once it hit the trigger point, different story - there was a fair amount of an awkward/uncomfortable pain/pressure type feeling. I had six needles, one on each side of three lumbar vertabrae, and they stayed in for 2-3 mins. I think what made me most uncomfortable was I didn't know what to expect in terms of how it would feel, which made me anxious & tense. The pressure was a bit awkward feeling and localized only to that area, which made it kind of intense. Also, the procedure was performed on me immediately following traction; I don't know if that had anything to do with the intensity level or not.

Now that I know what to expect, I would say on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most intense pressure, this was maybe a 5, but it's short-lived, tapered down a bit once I 'mentally accepted' it, and the pressure sensation was relieved as soon as the needles came out. Next time, I WILL take a Xanax beforehand so I can relax more for the procedure, as I will have it done again Wednesday on both cervical & lumbar spine areas, and I am super skittish about anything to do with my spine given my chronic back issues. I would also suggest making sure you're absolutely comfortable before it begins. I was face-down, legs straight out/down, and my feet were vertical in that they were balancing on my toes (hope that makes sense); I was scared to relax my feet to the sides at all because HELLO ... needles in my spine! :shock:

The procedure doesn't appear to be available in every state, so you might need to check your state medical associations to see if it's available where you live. I hope that is helpful, should you look to have it done, in terms of knowing what to expect. :wavey:
 

House Cat

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JoCoJenn|1481422322|4106231 said:
distracts|1481419560|4106221 said:
I've never heard of this. Sounds interesting. I've had myofascial massages before and I swear it relieved pain I didn't even know I felt until it was gone, much different than a regular massage. Had no idea it could go even further.

Did it hurt? The internet says it won't hurt but... I am skeptical, because needles. :errrr: Hope the next round reduces the pain even more.
:wavey: And I learned something from you - I didn't know there was such a thing as 'myofascial massage'; is that the same as deep tissue? Is it only performed via a PT, or is it available in non-"medical" settings? I would probably benefit from that as well; I try to get regular medium/deep tissue massages, but when the flare-ups are acute, I am leery of anyone's hands on my back & neck.

The needles going in didn't 'hurt' per se; I didn't even feel them go in really. Once it hit the trigger point, different story - there was a fair amount of an awkward/uncomfortable pain/pressure type feeling. I had six needles, one on each side of three lumbar vertabrae, and they stayed in for 2-3 mins. I think what made me most uncomfortable was I didn't know what to expect in terms of how it would feel, which made me anxious & tense. The pressure was a bit awkward feeling and localized only to that area, which made it kind of intense. Also, the procedure was performed on me immediately following traction; I don't know if that had anything to do with the intensity level or not.

Now that I know what to expect, I would say on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most intense pressure, this was maybe a 5, but it's short-lived, tapered down a bit once I 'mentally accepted' it, and the pressure sensation was relieved as soon as the needles came out. Next time, I WILL take a Xanax beforehand so I can relax more for the procedure, as I will have it done again Wednesday on both cervical & lumbar spine areas, and I am super skittish about anything to do with my spine given my chronic back issues. I would also suggest making sure you're absolutely comfortable before it begins. I was face-down, legs straight out/down, and my feet were vertical in that they were balancing on my toes (hope that makes sense); I was scared to relax my feet to the sides at all because HELLO ... needles in my spine! :shock:

The procedure doesn't appear to be available in every state, so you might need to check your state medical associations to see if it's available where you live. I hope that is helpful, should you look to have it done, in terms of knowing what to expect. :wavey:
This is amazing. I'm so glad to hear you are finding relief from your pain.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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redwood66|1481420286|4106223 said:
distracts|1481419560|4106221 said:
Did it hurt? The internet says it won't hurt but... I am skeptical, because needles. :errrr:
Yes this. I have such a fear of needles but I have so much pain in my low back and right leg all the time. I get a muscle lock up in my leg that my neurosurgeon says is like a severe charlie horse at least 3 time a week when I am sleeping. They wake me up and I am near tears because the pain is so bad.
EEEK! :o I can't imagine that intense a cramping. I am so sorry you have to deal with that.

We don't know if the shooting pain & numbness in my legs & arms is due to a pinched nerve from my 4 bulged discs, or (as the PT thinks) due to some sort of myofascial issue. So he is trying both traction & the dry needling after a couple aquatic therapy sessions only managed to aggravate the nerves more.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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House Cat|1481422701|4106234 said:
This is amazing. I'm so glad to hear you are finding relief from your pain.
Thank you; pain sucks! I am hopeful it's not a temporary level of relief (e.g., a couple days/weeks); I would be okay with repeating this every 9-12 months though if it lasts that long. My aunt had it done on her neck, and didn't get much relief at all, but everyone is different so I am hoping to hear others' experiences. I would say after my first treatment one day ago, I experienced about a 30% decrease in the intensity & frequency of my numbness & shoot pain. But again, I am also having traction, so it's hard to assign benefit to one vs the other. PT says it takes a couple treatments, so we are planning three, and if no significant steady improvement, we will cease them, and I will go for injections.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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JoCoJenn|1481422322|4106231 said:
:wavey: And I learned something from you - I didn't know there was such a thing as 'myofascial massage'; is that the same as deep tissue? Is it only performed via a PT, or is it available in non-"medical" settings? I would probably benefit from that as well; I try to get regular medium/deep tissue massages, but when the flare-ups are acute, I am leery of anyone's hands on my back & neck.

The needles going in didn't 'hurt' per se; I didn't even feel them go in really. Once it hit the trigger point, different story - there was a fair amount of an awkward/uncomfortable pain/pressure type feeling. I had six needles, one on each side of three lumbar vertabrae, and they stayed in for 2-3 mins. I think what made me most uncomfortable was I didn't know what to expect in terms of how it would feel, which made me anxious & tense. The pressure was a bit awkward feeling and localized only to that area, which made it kind of intense. Also, the procedure was performed on me immediately following traction; I don't know if that had anything to do with the intensity level or not.

Now that I know what to expect, I would say on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most intense pressure, this was maybe a 5, but it's short-lived, tapered down a bit once I 'mentally accepted' it, and the pressure sensation was relieved as soon as the needles came out. Next time, I WILL take a Xanax beforehand so I can relax more for the procedure, as I will have it done again Wednesday on both cervical & lumbar spine areas, and I am super skittish about anything to do with my spine given my chronic back issues. I would also suggest making sure you're absolutely comfortable before it begins. I was face-down, legs straight out/down, and my feet were vertical in that they were balancing on my toes (hope that makes sense); I was scared to relax my feet to the sides at all because HELLO ... needles in my spine! :shock:

The procedure doesn't appear to be available in every state, so you might need to check your state medical associations to see if it's available where you live. I hope that is helpful, should you look to have it done, in terms of knowing what to expect. :wavey:
Thanks for the info! It was really hard to me to visualize what it might be like based on the professional descriptions. And yeah, I can imagine anxiety about needles in your back... I'd have a ton of anxiety over that too!

I have only had myofascial massage done at a doctor's office because it is something my TMJ doctor's office has and I got it done regularly when my TMJ problems were very bad and I was constantly in pain, but you can find massage therapists trained in it at various places. It is in some ways like deep tissue massage but some techniques are specifically to stimulate bloodflow to the fascia, so they do things like pull your skin up and hold it (or on your scalp, they just pull your hair and hold it, which is... weird... especially since this was for TMJ stuff and I also had the intraoral massage, so in addition to pulling my hair, she was massaging inside my mouth, lol). There is also a lot of pressing and holding, which doesn't feel particularly massagey but seems to work. I have never had any other type of massage so thoroughly get rid of the tension and pain in my neck/scalp/face - other ones I've gotten seem to barely affect it. I don't know if it would work for what you have but it certainly was very helpful to me.
 

the_mother_thing

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Distracts - thanks for that info. I just checked my PT clinic's website, and a couple of their PTs have myofascial massage noted as a technique they practice, so I will ask about it at my next appointment. :wavey:
 

lambskin

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I would check with the PT if it is OK to take a Xanax prior to the procedure. Any drug that may mask symptoms or your reaction thereto may affect the procedure. Interesting that a PT can do this procedure. Good Luck- I hope it continues to work for you as surgery would be awful.
 

the_mother_thing

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lambskin|1481431585|4106258 said:
I would check with the PT if it is OK to take a Xanax prior to the procedure. Any drug that may mask symptoms or your reaction thereto may affect the procedure. Interesting that a PT can do this procedure. Good Luck- I hope it continues to work for you as surgery would be awful.
:wavey: Thanks; I did ask him about the Xanax during my last appt and he said it was fine, to just take it about 30 mins prior. He saw how anxious I got during it the first time. :errrr:

It is something PTs have to train on; mine has a crap-ton of credentials, training, etc. And it does vary (availability of procedure) by state, it seems. As I have to fly to Ohio VERY early tomorrow for two full days of meetings, then back Tuesday night, I am thankful we did it so I can mange better with all the sitting I will be doing because sitting for 5-7 minutes triggers the shooting pain and numbness in my legs, so I frequently have to get up and move around a lot.

And I will throw this tidbit out as well for anyone who might benefit - I have & use the Varidesk for work. It's a computer desk that sets on your existing desk, and raises & lowers easily to allow you to go from sitting to standing without having to move your computer around. I have had mine for about 3 years now, and love it. I see them advertised on tv now also, though I learned about it in an airline catalog on a flight. It was WELL worth the investment of about $300. Mine is the double-wide, so I have room for two monitors plus my laptop. It is a lifesaver for people with back pain that is worsened by prolonged sitting. And even for those who don't have back pain, it's a healthy option for 'desk jockeys' to help prevent problems associated with prolonged sitting.
 
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